131 replies to this topic

[Nik Reaper]

FupDup, on 20 February 2015 - 10:00 PM, said:

.....

Seriously, we don't need to gimp the Cheetah just because the Spider inherited its Tabletop problems and hasn't been given enough attention (quirk/buff-wise) to make up for it. Doing so would add little to the game. What would really shake things up is seeing a new contender take everyone by surprise and make the best light less of a no-brainer choice than it is presently.

So the question is is AC it? And if you think it is not why?
It seems that the size and hitboxes are the only thing that could stand in it's way.

Also though not as important it has missile hardpoints with energy, meaning that it can both use an even higher alpha , ex 4 spl and 2 srm4 for an 40 alpha... or do the not so common narc while still having 4 spl or 4 med lasers. And Ecm , always ecm.

Edited by Nik Reaper, 20 February 2015 - 10:07 PM.

[Mordin Ashe]

5xCERML is all I could ever ask for...

[FupDup]

Nik Reaper, on 20 February 2015 - 10:02 PM, said:

So the question is is AC it? And if you think it is not why?
It seems that the size and hitboxes are the only thing that could stand in it's way.

I think that with what we know so far, the AC stands a good chance at being a top-tier light. The exact position might be within the top 3 or so. Firestarter will probably be more durable (35 tonner armor) and have better brawlyness (SPLs), while the AC can be sneakier (ECM) and use longer ranged Clan lasers. It'll be a glorious final battle between them unless its hitboxes get borked or something.

Edited by FupDup, 20 February 2015 - 10:07 PM.

[Jakob Knight]

FupDup, on 20 February 2015 - 10:00 PM, said:

You're focusing too hard on the highly specific each-and-every piece of equipment being cloned to the letter. It doesn't matter what a mech mounts as long as it reaches a certain level of effectiveness.

Also, I'd argue that the 35 tonners actuallyare in some ways closer due to total firepower (Clan tech is nice, also it has way more hardpoints than Spiders) and some Spiders having a higher engine cap (up to 169 kph).


Seriously, we don't need to gimp the Cheetah just because the Spider inherited its Tabletop problems and hasn't been given enough attention (quirk/buff-wise) to make up for it. Doing so would add little to the game. What would really shake things up is seeing a new contender take everyone by surprise and make the best light less of a no-brainer choice than it is presently.

I would say, in turn, that you are focusing too much on firepower and not on the rest of the mech. The Spider is what the Inner Sphere will have to use in place of the Cheetah, and if the Cheetah is clearly superior in firepower without sacrificing significantly in some other area, then it has to be be gimped or the entire idea of IS and Clan being equal goes out the window.

So, I will simply ask this. Show me another Inner Sphere ECM Light mech with 6 jump capacity that we can compare this mech to. If you cannot, then the Spider does have to be the standard set for determining what the Cheetah should be able to do, as that is the only valid comparison to determine if the Cheetah is unbalanced in it's implementation.

Otherwise, we might as well compare the Cheetah to a CN9-LYW Centurion, if we aren't going to limit ourselves by tonnage, role, or capabilities, and only concern ourselves with 'reaching a certain level of effectiveness'.

[Mcgral18]

Jakob Knight, on 20 February 2015 - 10:18 PM, said:

I would say, in turn, that you are focusing too much on firepower and not on the rest of the mech. The Spider is what the Inner Sphere will have to use in place of the Cheetah, and if the Cheetah is clearly superior in firepower without sacrificing significantly in some other area, then it has to be be gimped or the entire idea of IS and Clan being equal goes out the window.

So, I will simply ask this. Show me another Inner Sphere ECM Light mech with 6 jump capacity that we can compare this mech to. If you cannot, then the Spider does have to be the standard set for determining what the Cheetah should be able to do, as that is the only valid comparison to determine if the Cheetah is unbalanced in it's implementation.

Otherwise, we might as well compare the Cheetah to a CN9-LYW Centurion, if we aren't going to limit ourselves by tonnage, role, or capabilities, and only concern ourselves with 'reaching a certain level of effectiveness'.

Alright, show me a Clan light mech that can compare to the Firestarter?


Oh, right, the Arctic Cheetah.

[Kain Demos]

I want to run 6 CSPL but it may be too hot since it will lacking a true DHS compared to larger 'mechs.

Maybe 5 CSPL or 4 CSPL/2 CERSL or even 6 CERSL (but the 1s burn time may prove too big a disadvantage) will be more in order.

[Ralgas]

The new cat pack is going to be the new unholy trinity from the is's perspective unless all their hitboxes are made worse than the nova's (dont laugh, it could happen, especially on the cat and jag)

[Jakob Knight]

Mcgral18, on 20 February 2015 - 10:20 PM, said:

Alright, show me a Clan light mech that can compare to the Firestarter?


Oh, right, the Arctic Cheetah.

The Kitfox-S, with whatever arms suit the weapons to be mounted. This isn't as close a comparison as the AC <-> Spider because the Kitfox is 5 tons lighter. However, it does have the same jump capability, speed, and general role as the Firestarter. Further, it is far more adaptable, being able to be reconfigured to a superior escort mech (3xAMS) and ECM mech, or a light mech killer with multiple Streak missile systems, all by simply purchasing parts of other variants, something the Firestarter cannot do.

Indeed, the Firestarter-E is very comparable to the Kitfox in hardpoints as well.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 20 February 2015 - 10:35 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Jakob Knight, on 20 February 2015 - 10:32 PM, said:

The Kitfox-S, with whatever arms suit the weapons to be mounted. This isn't as close a comparison as the AC <-> Spider because the Kitfox is 5 tons lighter. However, it does have the same jump capability, speed, and general role as the Firestarter. Further, it is far more adaptable, being able to be reconfigured to a superior escort mech (3xAMS) and ECM mech, or a light mech killer with multiple Streak missile systems, all by simply purchasing parts of other variants, something the Firestarter cannot do.

Indeed, the Firestarter-E is very comparable to the Kitfox in hardpoints as well.

Wait, what?


Are you serious?

Edited by Mcgral18, 20 February 2015 - 10:36 PM.

[Jakob Knight]

Mcgral18, on 20 February 2015 - 10:36 PM, said:

Wait, what?


Are you serious?

Your concise and detailed examination of my furnishing of what was asked for is breathtaking in it's content and undeniable exactness to what I've come to expect from such obviously advanced viewpoints on matters of debate. I think that about covers the whole thing, and, having provided evidence to support my own conclusions and nothing having been placed in evidence in return, I will rest my case.

Yes, I was quite serious in my post, unlike yourself.

And, lastly, if you are thinking of using the 'effectiveness' card, I've beaten multiple Firestarters in a Kitfox, at the same time. So don't even suggest they aren't comparable in effectiveness, or that the Kitfox can't engage the Firestarter on even terms.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 20 February 2015 - 10:52 PM.

[Destructicus]

IS have had awesome lights the whole time but the moment the clans get a light that finally performs like an IS light and not a medium we need to nerf it right?
Why don't we get the damn thing in game first before we get all upset and try to nerf it "cuz hard"

Edited by Destructicus, 20 February 2015 - 11:23 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Jakob Knight, on 20 February 2015 - 10:50 PM, said:

Your concise and detailed examination of my furnishing of what was asked for is breathtaking in it's content and undeniable exactness to what I've come to expect from such obviously advanced viewpoints on matters of debate. I think that about covers the whole thing, and, having provided evidence to support my own conclusions and nothing having been placed in evidence in return, I will rest my case.

Yes, I was quite serious in my post, unlike yourself.

And, lastly, if you are thinking of using the 'effectiveness' card, I've beaten multiple Firestarters in a Kitfox, at the same time. So don't even suggest they aren't comparable in effectiveness, or that the Kitfox can't engage the Firestarter on even terms.

So, why isn't the Arctic Cheetah comparable to the FS9, if the Cute Fox can be?



Are you sure you aren't trolling?

[Destructicus]

Mcgral18, on 20 February 2015 - 10:54 PM, said:

So, why isn't the Arctic Cheetah comparable to the FS9, if the Cute Fox can be?



Are you sure you aren't trolling?

since the AC has been announced this guy has been complaining in various threads about the existence of the AC and how it needs to be nerfed because he's terrible and every thing is hard.
It's best to ignore him.
He's on par with 151 whine horse in terms of idiocy.

Edited by Destructicus, 20 February 2015 - 11:16 PM.

[Ralgas]

Should be noted the 6spl monster wont be seen regularly till sept, given the variant necessary to make it is only available till the end of next week

Edited by Ralgas, 20 February 2015 - 10:59 PM.

[Lily from animove]

Nik Reaper, on 20 February 2015 - 09:17 PM, said:

Oki, so is it time to start the OP claims now or later ?

The Arctic Cheetah has ECM and can mount 6 spl for a 36 alpha at 181m while moving at ~141 kph and has 6JJ for all the mobility needed, and to that will mount an extra heatsink for the kicks with it's 8t of pod space.

I think it's time to bow to our clan overlords because this is what the ice ferret was ment to be , exept smaller with ecm and JJs .....

Edit: fixed the JJ/pod space.

no, because longer burntimes and recycle times than a FS9, so the damage spreads slightly more.
further taking the pic of th cheetah next to the TBR indicates it will eb significantly wider than the FS9 even. that probably offtrades the XL survivability. So lets see, I guess its the only true clan harrasser we will have but I think IS can still do the job better.

[STEF_]

Brody319, on 20 February 2015 - 09:25 PM, said:

nah the Executioner is. 13 SPLs on a 95 tonner.

Brody, you should put something about executioner in your signature.
90% of your posts are executioner related, lately

[STEF_]

Greenjulius, on 20 February 2015 - 10:01 PM, said:

It will be in the top 3 lightmechs barring any massive nerfs. That really can't be argued. What will determine if it is number 1 are hitboxes. It already has the gift of Clan XL, so it has advantages that the FS9 can never have.

and ecm.

In puglandia, you will never be noticed if you stand at 400 m or more, while loading an ecm. It's so hilarous ...

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 21 February 2015 - 12:59 AM.

[Sarlic]

Fun though...as we need more so called 'specialists' on the team or more vomit mechs.

[o0Marduk0o]

Jakob Knight, on 20 February 2015 - 10:32 PM, said:

The Kitfox-S, with whatever arms suit the weapons to be mounted. This isn't as close a comparison as the AC &lt;-&gt; Spider because the Kitfox is 5 tons lighter. However, it does have the same jump capability, speed, and general role as the Firestarter. Further, it is far more adaptable, being able to be reconfigured to a superior escort mech (3xAMS) and ECM mech, or a light mech killer with multiple Streak missile systems, all by simply purchasing parts of other variants, something the Firestarter cannot do.

Indeed, the Firestarter-E is very comparable to the Kitfox in hardpoints as well.

Kitfox has same speed and general role as the Firestarter?! What are you smoking? Do you run FS9 with slow standard engines?

[kapusta11]

6x CSPL is too much IMO, 5x CSPL deal only 2 pts less damage than 8x IS SPL and a bit less hot.

Edited by kapusta11, 21 February 2015 - 01:19 AM.