131 replies to this topic

[JadeTimberwolf]

Mordin Ashe, on 21 February 2015 - 12:02 AM, said:

*snip*- We have engine benefits, true, but is that enough to compensate worse weapons, much higher heat, lack of quirks (listen to last Town Hall, it will take until summer before all Clan Mechs are quirked), no upgrading abilities like FF/Endo, we can't even change our unneccessarily huge engines... Plus very bad weapon placement. On top of that all, we pay for our equipment much more than IS for no real game-balancing reason.*snip*

There are a few issues with your rant however this is the one thing I want to point out the most, OmniMechs are never allowed to change Engines, Armor-type, InnerStructure, Engine Built-in HS. in any incarnation of Battletech that I can clearly remember. That is plain and simple the trade off for being able to freely trade out your weapon pods. If you really want Clan Mechs that can trade these things out petition for Clan BattleMechs instead, many of which are are used as 2nd line fighters or as defense fighters but like all current IS BattleMechs can trade these options out, however you will be stuck with the Hardpoints that the Chassis has stock just like IS BattleMechs.

30ft SMURF, on 21 February 2015 - 01:10 AM, said:

Silly clanner... There never has and never will be 'weapon balance' and if there ever was everyone would cry about the newb lrm spam they died from every day... also this is why we should be able to put clan tech in our IS mechs. Sure do wish I could use lrms and still kill you, but we like to hit our targets.

LRMs are meant to hit the targets? well chit I have been using them wrong this entire time, I use them to distract opponents. I don't care if they hit because roughly 85% of my opponents (IS or Clan) tend to duck for cover when they hear that Missile warning giving me and my allies time to get within Brawling range.

Onmyoudo, on 21 February 2015 - 01:27 AM, said:

Entire thread is OP getting trashed by Kurita. Guess he didn't get enough in game, so brought it to the forums, too?

Out of interest, do any other clanners legitimately believe in the OP's assessment of balance?

No, this Clanner does not legitimately believe the OP's assessment of balance, I will agree that as Quirks get introduced they will need to be adjusted and re-adjusted from time to time but that is because in my mind Quirks are the balancing mechanism of this game, then again I am of the understanding that in terms of tech PGI wants to stick as close to TableTop as possible so they need to balance somewhere that doesn't exist in the TT game, that would be Quirks and Modules, heck even the skill system they have can be used this way as it is not reminiscent of the TTRPG skill system.

CrockdaddyAoD, on 21 February 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

Mordin Ashe,

Don't trash hiim guys. He like many clanners are still recovering from their addiction to NERF.Their last hit, was the sweet TDR 9S NERF. Word on the street (pgi forums) that this NERF was some powerful stuff and addicted thousands of clanners. Once clanners get the taste of the NERF high they feel powerful and need another hit of that NERF to maintain the high. I expect like many NERF abusers he too will end up working the streets (PGI forums) in the never ending quest for the next NERF high. We should never hold them in contempt for the NERF high is a disease and they need our help. Even IS folks get NERF addicted (see the NERF Timberwolf endemic our IS addicted never seem to get quite enough of this one).

I will be honest here, I thought that the 9S quirks were a little powerful, and looking at the smurfy listing of what it is now I don't think it was over nerfed, the 9S ERPPC is at 25% heat reduction down from 50% but retains the 25% cooldown reduction. Now I don't know if these numbers are correct so please feel free to correct me. As for the IS ERLL I haven't seem them boated en-masse yet, however last time I faced a team from NS was before the latest update and even then I remember you guys used them more often than the ERPPC.

[Enigmos]

Interesting thing about some arguments. Even the most masterfully built case must eventually be compared with what actually happens.

What actually happens is that, whether playing IS or Clan, CW is tremendous fun, and a greater challenge because of the quality of the terrain and the presentation of the objectives than your everyday match outside CW WHEN the pilots on both sides are well matched, or even just closely matched.

And, just like outside community warfare, matches are not fun if the teams are poorly matched. Sometimes profitable, but not fun.

Despite all the differences and plus/minus rationalizing in your proposition that it's a gear balance issue, and despite an impeccable flow of logic (or not, as the case may be), it isn't the mechs that are imbalanced it is the team. It isn't the loadout it is the pilot.

Nobody likes to be confronted with the fact that somebody is simply better at something than you are. I don't like being confronted with the fact that I'm not the best pilot in MWO, but there it is. Fact.

The good craftsman never blames his tools.

Just recognize the fact and stop making excuses. Nobody likes getting rolled, but if you are going to drop against competitive, well-coordinated teams without being a member of a superb team yourself, then you are going to be rolled when you meet one. Doesn't matter if you are running clan or IS. What matters will be skill, coordination, and training.

Drop against a really fine team and, except for the burning wreckage element, it is like watching ballet or synchronized swimming.

All they need are tutus.
Or bikinis.

Edited by OriginalTibs, 21 February 2015 - 12:27 PM.

[Ax2Grind]

The Droid, on 21 February 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

At this rate clanners will demand IS is removed from the game entirely because they can't handle the thought of losing.

I demand IS is removed from the game entirely! Great idea Droid. You freebirth scum are in for it now! PGI loves us and in their wisdom you will be deleted.

[Wingbreaker]

Ax2Grind, on 21 February 2015 - 02:26 PM, said:

I demand IS is removed from the game entirely! Great idea Droid. You freebirth scum are in for it now! PGI loves us and in their wisdom you will be deleted.

IS IT TIME FOR MONGOL DOCTRINE?

I LIKE MONGOL DOCTRINE.

Edited by Wingbreaker, 21 February 2015 - 03:25 PM.

[zortesh]

Wingbreaker, on 21 February 2015 - 03:25 PM, said:

IS IT TIME FOR MONGOL DOCTRINE?

I LIKE MONGOL DOCTRINE.

I tried this but i just can't find the massacre civilians button anywhere.

Infact this game seems to completely lack in things like destroying entire worlds food producing capacity, crashing battleships into planetary capitals, poisoning the groundwater on desert worlds with radioactives, or any of that other good stuff.

[Enigmos]

Not to mention PGI won't enable cryengine's destructible environment.

River City.... Crimson Strait... worlds of new tactics...

Terra Therma: "Just shoot the girders, boys! We're going to collapse the volcano platform out from under 'em..."

Edited by OriginalTibs, 21 February 2015 - 04:58 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

ThomasMarik, on 21 February 2015 - 05:05 AM, said:

I'm confused. Don't Clanners have ERLL's as well? Do you not have access to range modules? Don't your LL's do more damage and have more reach than IS ones? Serioujsly the only imbalance I see was 12 man premade vs 12 pugs and 12 man coordinating their fire is going to steamroll pugs. End of story.

Depending on what mech you use. You can out range a clanner Er laser by around 100-200m.

[zortesh]

Monkey Lover, on 21 February 2015 - 05:18 PM, said:

Depending on what mech you use. You can out range a clanner Er laser by around 100-200m.

Not true clan erll by defualt has 740 effective and 1480 max.

IS erll fully quirked on best possible mech has 912m effective range, but either due to a bug or something intentional its max range is capped at just under 1500m.

So a fully quirked is mech can outrange a unquirked no targeting computer clanmech by just under 20 meters.

So no we cant outrange clans by 200 meters...... (cept maybe with guass i dunno what guass quirked mechs are like)

Infact a maxed targeting and module clan erll has 870m effective range and 1740m max range... so clans outrange is in erll compartment by just over 240meters..... and even if Spheroid erll's weren't capped at 1500 they'd only have 84 meter range advantage.

Which makes this complaining really puzzling to me.

Dedicated clan sniper build will outrange dedicated spheroid sniper build... spheroid dedicated sniper mechs outrange clan mech that just happens to have a erll. .... I see nothing wrong.

[LoklanZFG]

Monkey Lover, on 21 February 2015 - 05:18 PM, said:

Depending on what mech you use. You can out range a clanner Er laser by around 100-200m.

Edited for redundancy, Zortesh basically posted the same thing I was typing, as I was typing it

Edited by LoklanZFG, 21 February 2015 - 05:45 PM.

[Caustic Canid]

Clan faces are weak to large lasers? Finally PGI follows lore!

[N0MAD]

zortesh, on 21 February 2015 - 05:39 PM, said:

but either due to a bug or something intentional its max range is capped at just under 1500m.

Where does this come from? where is this documented?

[Malcolm Vordermark]

N0MAD, on 21 February 2015 - 06:16 PM, said:

Where does this come from? where is this documented?

Most likely it is when you see the beam terminate at extreme ranges. Because long ago it was not possible to change the range the beam probably stopped at 1500 metere, twice its normal range. While I have not tested it, I could see this being true. Though, I don't think bugs should be taken into account for balance issues unless they are never going to be fixed.

[N0MAD]

There are 40+ IS mechs that have a +10% to a crazy 30% energy range magic Quirk, thats not including +Laser specific Range magic. At +10% the IS ERLL comes in at 742m vs C ERLL at 740m..Yes if you invest 1 ton for TC you can extend by 2.25% and at 4 ton 4 slots you can extend by 5.25%, so any IS mech that has +12.5 counters the MK1 TC, a +15% counters the MK4. thats 4 ton 4 slot disadvantage.
Now IMO ERLL arent really ideal sniper weapons considering the amoumt of time you need to burn for full effect and the clan weapon has a longer burn time so.....
Now having said this, the IS and Clan ERPPC have the same range around 820m? something like that, that effectively means those 40+ IS mechs with the 10%+ Energy range magic way out range the Clans with ERPPC a more suitable sniper weapon, before you say ahh projectile speed for PPC is a factor just look at how many have + P speed magic, -heat, - cooldown for PPCs.
Dedicated sniper builds? lol IS has it all over the Clans, over 40 chassis that can out range the clans (with ERPPC) by a very big margin..
Want to talk about IS mechs that have +Range magic for Balistics, SRM/LRM, ?

Edited by N0MAD, 21 February 2015 - 06:50 PM.

[zortesh]

N0MAD, on 21 February 2015 - 06:16 PM, said:

Where does this come from? where is this documented?

Here and here and i guess in every single cw recording on my youtube channel thats on the reach.

Rouken, on 21 February 2015 - 06:20 PM, said:

Most likely it is when you see the beam terminate at extreme ranges. Because long ago it was not possible to change the range the beam probably stopped at 1500 metere, twice its normal range. While I have not tested it, I could see this being true. Though, I don't think bugs should be taken into account for balance issues unless they are never going to be fixed.

Well .. ... the bug exists so ... .... them saying we outrange them currently is still blatantly false.



^ effing evidence, we don't outrange your erll mechs.

Edited by zortesh, 21 February 2015 - 07:04 PM.

[N0MAD]

Considering the damage drop off after optimum range, you really bringing into the debate the range factor after 1500m?and a bug, really?
So what damage does a ERLL do at 1500+? you are talking fractions of 1 if any at all, wow really? and conveniently on ALpine.
No mention of the blatant ERPPC range advantage for IS? just the 1500m + range advantage for a tiny tiny amount of damage lasers do at 1500+? this is just LOL..

Edited by N0MAD, 21 February 2015 - 07:09 PM.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Mordin Ashe, on 21 February 2015 - 12:02 AM, said:

words...

Yeah, the quirking has gotten a little out of hand.

30ft SMURF, on 21 February 2015 - 01:10 AM, said:

also this is why we should be able to put clan tech in our IS mechs.

Agreed. Eliminate all quirks and allow some salvage/retrofits to IS mechs using salvaged clan tech.

[zortesh]

N0MAD, on 21 February 2015 - 07:05 PM, said:

Considering the damage drop off after optimum range, you really bringing into the debate the range factor after 1500m?and a bug, really?
So what damage does a ERLL do at 1500+? you are talking fractions of 1 if any at all, wow really? and conveniently on ALpine.
No mention of the blatant ERPPC range advantage for IS? just the 1500m + range advantage for a tiny tiny amount of damage lasers do at 1500+? this is just LOL..

Topic is arguing about erll spam sniping.... read the first post atall?

Erppcs are a joke, you see them coming and sidestep them, and take no damage.... the erppc snipers weren't dangerous because of there range, they were dangerous because they could spam infinite 30 pinpoint alphas.

with 912m effective range on best is mechs... at 1500 meters of 1800 meters were doing what? 3 damage? 4 damage?

So yeah....

It totally prove my point that we don't outrange clans by 200 meters with erll's like the person i was responding to claimed.

[N0MAD]

If you look at the almost useless graph we are given when you hover over a weapon, when you look at the C ERLL, damage is at 0 just short of 1500, so to estimate say 1450m, so 0 damage at 1450 to 1500m, so add the 5% that a Mk4 TC gives to that bringing the 0 damage range to what? ? 5% of 1500 =75m, now considering its more likely 1450 by the chart lets add 75+1450= 1525m, so at 1525m the C ERLL does a woping 0 damage (just averaging numbers), not the 3-4 damage you say..
Try again..
PS you are using a Spider 5D, show us that with the 5V...

Edited by N0MAD, 21 February 2015 - 08:02 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Holy ****, how much time do you cowards spend at 1500 meters?

Actually, wait don't answer that.

[pwnface]

Rouken, on 21 February 2015 - 06:20 PM, said:

Most likely it is when you see the beam terminate at extreme ranges. Because long ago it was not possible to change the range the beam probably stopped at 1500 metere, twice its normal range. While I have not tested it, I could see this being true. Though, I don't think bugs should be taken into account for balance issues unless they are never going to be fixed.

This bug has been reported by myself and Atomcore in the last two patches. PGI has not said anything about it and it looks unlikely they will fix it soon.