178 replies to this topic

[Necromantion]

xe N on, on 23 February 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

Oh, wait, 90% of all humanoid IS mechs have the same problem.

Uhm no, not to the extent that a large rectangular box pops up before your cockpit does basically waving a flag saying "here dummy shoot me"

[Dawnstealer]

Necromantion, on 22 February 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

I put this up as a semi sarcastic post, while bringing up the strengths of IS loadouts and mechs i wanted to show people how obscenely stupid the people who claim Clan mechs are OP are.

I feel that as far as heat management and brawling the IS has some significant advantages.

Frankly, I feel the game is balanced and dont struggle with either Clan or IS mechs as long as I play them within the role i build them for

You have to actually be able to get to brawling range, though. In the PUG queue? My brawling builds own. In CW? They're a laughable joke that hurt my team.

[Tom Sawyer]

The more of these threads I see the more I ponder.

Lets say in a perfect world you have 2 12 man teams each perfect in skill. One uses clan tech, the other IS. There is ZERO ping on both teams. There are no registration hit errors. A perfect server with perfect teams. Then perhaps I can call clan tech over powered.

Now real world. You have drops of pure skill vs pure pug. Sometimes you get a drop with a mix. Yada Yada. I have seen, played, won, and ROFMAO STOMP and been ROFLMAO STOMPED.


Real world saying- A superior pilot in an inferior plane will kill an inferior pilot in a superior plane.

Works for mechs too. Just because you have a Timber Wolf all pimped out is not going to be enough of a crutch to help you win. When I drop with my unit OLDS we get games where we mow the lawn. And we get mowed.

All this to say if you want to play CW then FIND A UNIT. Practice. Trial mechs are great for pug land. Save your C-Bills and get mechs you feel comfortable driving. Listen to your team mates. Voice coms are not candy, they are necessary.

In time with some luck and learning skill you might find yourself in a locust killing a streak crow.

Or you can continue to chase the "META MECH" auto win button in vain.

[EvilCow]

Playing as clanner of late, it is like engaging the easy mode.

Less QQ and more L2P.

[Hillslam]

BOTH of your anecdotal evidence is worthless.

How about that? Now stop arguing like idiots.

After all we all know the REAL reason Stormcrows are OP has nothing to do with laser vomit or SRM spam (or the fact it can put out the damage of an IS 100 tonner). No, the REAL reason is shown in the highly accruate and scientifically proven diagram below.

(No seals were harmed in the collecting of this data)

[Necromantion]

I run brawling builds on multiple maps but its all about timing and what mode and map youre on.


Attack mode:
For example, when attacking boreal I never bring any brawling builds. Maybe some wub or streaks on one mech for when we push into the base near the end.

Attacking on Sulfur I usually bring a high pintpoint alpha or brawler build first, definitely a brawler or two in my deck for this map due to the amount of cover and shorter distances in combat.

New map ill bring all ranged builds with one brawler for later on depending on how the battle goes.

Defense mode:
Defending on sulfur though I bring at least one or two brawling builds due to the fact i know I am going to be fighting in tight spaces.

At times on boreal defence I will start with a brawler build if I feel like for my first mech otherwise I will keep one in my deck for later on for if we get pushed back into the buildings at the base.

Defending against IS I always have a streak mech in case of the skillfull light rush employed by many IS units.

Defending on the new map I typically bring long ranged builds with one brawler for later on if the enemy team pushes to the O-Gen.

Counter attack mode:
I always bring a brawler build (2 if on sulfur), streaks preferrably when fighting as clan vs IS. AC 20 if IS vs Clan and then 2-3 mid-long ranged builds


Build to succeed, use your brains. Also all of this above applies regardless of IS or Clan.

[Karpundir]

Necromantion, on 23 February 2015 - 09:41 AM, said:

Once again I and a lot of other players in merc units have played both factions 50/50 from the inception of CW and our win/loss record is no different from one faction to the other. Teamwork and competence are what matters and having the brains to bring the right loadouts for each game type and map. Altering your play to conform to quirks and optimize your play makes IS mechs more than competitive with Clans if not even certain builds to be even stronger than Clans.

Just adding in my 2 cents, but have you played IS vs Clan on the IS side since the nerfs to the TDR-9S? The match-up feels more in favour of Clans now. Sadly, the TDR-9S was the biggest contributor to IS-Clan balance and the 20-30pts of front-loaded damage did make it superior (in skilled hands) to the laser vomit Mechs of the Clans until it lost 2 of it's ER PPCs OR you pushed in hard with your Clan Mechs en masse.

QQ Mercs is now on the Clan side and it is certainly a lot easier than it used to be fighting vs IS. Now the biggest threat is the STK-4N, but it is actually easier to kill it than the TDR-9S, despite it's higher mounted weapons and additional toughness. The burn time of the LL is shorter, but you can get as much damage on it as you take, thanks to the extended range/damage per ton of the Clan lasers, not to mention ability to boat as many DHS as a STK in a mech that is 10 tons lighter.

The 3rd Clan pack is going to shift even more in favour to the Clans with 2 new ECM options, one of which can make a good ER PPC/Gauss jump sniper. The new DWF-S omnipods are still not widely used, so its effects are minimal in the grand scheme of things, but it makes the DWF a LOT better for mobility and damage mitigation. Once these are available for C-Bills, you will see the Whales dominating even more than they have been. The King Crab was supposed to be the answer to the DWF, but it fell short of that due to it's low-slung arms and huge CT hitbox/flat-top.

LRMs are in favour of the Clans, despite the front-loaded IS option, simply due to the superior ECM chassis available to the Clans (Hellbringers and eventually the Arctic Cheetah and Shadow Cat). The IS needs an ECM-capable Heavy in a bad way.

The Arctic Cheetah will eliminate the IS light advantage with an equally fast, ECM- and Jump-capable light that doesn't die to a side torso blow-out and can pack up to 6 energy weapons with the ECM included. Good bye Firestarters!

IS Quirks were made to compensate for Clan tech superiority in the absence of fighting 10v12. There is a reason why many merc units who flip between Clan and IS are preferring fighting as Clans going forward. Sadly, as much as I like to run both, I just don't see the IS being able to match the Clans. Soon Clans are getting more quirks for their "weaker" Mechs, which means the baseline of power is moving toward being on par to SCR/HBR/TBR levels rather than bringing those down to a more equivalent IS baseline.

Soon enough, the "Clans are OP" argument will become clearly validated, regardless of equal skill level between the 2 sides.

[Dawnstealer]

So when the IS had the 9S, and were both stalling and even in a few cases, pushing back the Clan invasion, it was because everyone learned to play? And then everyone lost that ability as soon as the quirks were nerfed? And all the gains since are solely because Clan pilots are the most awesome game-players in existence and has nothing to do with the mechs they're piloting? But with the IS it's totally just because they had a single mech that matched up?

Ahhh...got it.

Edited by Dawnstealer, 23 February 2015 - 11:26 AM.

[mekabuser]

tbh the whole cw thing is once again kinda moot to me since theres too often "issues" with how the game runs for cw.
idk if its teams or whatnot, but no matter what the cause, for there to be HUGE lag spikes and warping and all just crazy **** happening WHILe engaging a 12 man or large premade a little too often .
i dont know if this is mass firing or what causes it, but it certainly is WEIRd that its not something you see, pretty much at all in regular play.
my specs are top shelf with a usual sub 30 ping to boot so . i.. d.. k..

as far as OP, well, as an IS pilot, i feel as if i should be a dairy farmer, because I am now an expert at recognizing cheese, clan cheese. Im sure there is IS cheese, i guess, spider made a resurgence because its , well , cheese etc, but Ive gone back to my lovely tried and true IS loadouts and ive "clanned" them. ERL for everyone. !!!
Insta scan weap boat is OP over ammo dependent , oops i lost my MAIN gun everytime.
TImberwolf Jump twist BS is annoying as *** and streaks streaks streaks.. its just kinda revolting having to face that crap all the time. I got to play against IS as IS the other night and it was a much better experience.

the one true counter is those legs.. Ive been playing MW for 15 years and I almost never legged on principle, just because. THere is no other option as IS v Clan. LEg, leg leg leg.

All that garbage be it as it may, the biggest problem is the stuff i said in the beginning.. Either this game is coded for c ra p , or there is , too often , some kind of bs being engaged in.
or both.

[M4NTiC0R3X]

Necromantion, on 22 February 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

I put this up as a semi sarcastic post, while bringing up the strengths of IS loadouts and mechs i wanted to show people how obscenely stupid the people who claim Clan mechs are OP are.

I feel that as far as heat management and brawling the IS has some significant advantages.

Frankly, I feel the game is balanced and dont struggle with either Clan or IS mechs as long as I play them within the role i build them for

Clan mechs are OP and I'm not insanely stupid. Deal with it.

[Dawnstealer]

M4NTiC0R3X, on 23 February 2015 - 11:37 AM, said:

Clan mechs are OP and I'm not insanely stupid. Deal with it.

Okay...and as a frustrated IS player, I can admit that yes they are OP, but...


And this is the hard part for me, especially as someone who's a fan of the lore: they're supposed to be.

I mean, it's hard to get roflstomped and then come on the forums and read it's because I suck at this game because...well, I don't. I mean, I'm not a top-ten player, but the fact that a lot of your names are familiar to me from game drops means I'm at least flirting with your ELOs on occasion (depending on the mech I'm running - some of my (non-CW) builds are truly goofy and fun - not necessarily own faces).

So yes, Clan Players: even a mildly skilled pilot in a Clan mech has an edge on a good IS pilot in an IS mech. It's the nature of the tool you're using.

And yes, the Clans are supposed to be wildly overpowered at this point in the timeline.

But the Clans are ALSO supposed to be constrained by their playing style (one-on-one combat, not using mercs, hamstringing their own attacks through bidding). It was those deliberate (role-playing) choices that eventually stalled the Clan invasion. While Clan players are huge on living up the OP mech side, there's zero desire to subscribe to the other portion.

Not that I blame them, but when I get focus-fired by 12 Stormcrow/TBRs Large Lasers from the moon, I kind of roll my eyes, load the next mech, and wonder why I bother.

[TygerLily]

I do think that skill and teamwork more than makes up for tech difference. However, with two equally skilled teams, the Clan team will have the advantage...IRL, "equally skilled" is a myth and thus we get lots of anecdotes about how IS is just as lethal as Clan.

Ideally, the premise should be "with two equally balanced tech levels, neither equally skilled team will have an advantage."

[Nightmare1]

Oh look! Another OP Thread!

Let's nerf it!

(The thread, not the equipment or Mechs...)

Edited by Nightmare1, 23 February 2015 - 12:49 PM.

[EVA UNIT 00]

Well... I can't help but feel like the fact that we (clanners) have more toys to play with, the less we can be predicted. Of course there is meta and the "best" builds, but... we have a bunch of fancy ballistics and IS doesn't have TOO much... soon we'll have MASC in play and I feel that all the possibilities that a clan mech has is in itself a threat for IS to consider.

[Johnny Z]

Clans are easy mode. Please nerf.

The OP isnt being serious. He is upset that players look at him as a crutch wielding second rate player for using clan mechs.

Edited by Johnny Z, 23 February 2015 - 01:12 PM.

[Mangonel TwoSix]

Some heavily quirked IS mechs are comparable to Clan weapons and loadouts, however the best of the best have had their effectiveness reduced in the last quirk pass.

So yes, in some situations some IS mechs do stack up favorably with Clan mechs.

However Clan mechs have some serious advantages, XL engines that do not destroy your mech, Double Heatsinks that take up less crit space, endo/ferro that does not take up half your mech crit slots.

And basically being able to just vomit lasers everywhere and rip off 10% or more of your opponents mech every time you pull the trigger. I do agree that IS weapons like the Autocannons are superior in a lot of ways, that 'pinpoint' damage is the only thing IS has going for it head to head.

The Clans have the IS beat in pure DPS per ton. But a skilled IS pilot that can make use of that pinpoint damage and hit the same hitbox time after time, that player is going to have a chance to ruin your day.

Fortunately for you clanners we all know that all the good players play Clan, so you don't have to worry about that too much ;p

[Astrocanis]

Roknari, on 23 February 2015 - 01:10 PM, said:

Some heavily quirked IS mechs are comparable to Clan weapons and loadouts, however the best of the best have had their effectiveness reduced in the last quirk pass. So yes, in some situations some IS mechs do stack up favorably with Clan mechs. However Clan mechs have some serious advantages, XL engines that do not destroy your mech, Double Heatsinks that take up less crit space, endo/ferro that does not take up half your mech crit slots. And basically being able to just vomit lasers everywhere and rip off 10% or more of your opponents mech every time you pull the trigger. I do agree that IS weapons like the Autocannons are superior in a lot of ways, that 'pinpoint' damage is the only thing IS has going for it head to head. The Clans have the IS beat in pure DPS per ton. But a skilled IS pilot that can make use of that pinpoint damage and hit the same hitbox time after time, that player is going to have a chance to ruin your day. Fortunately for you clanners we all know that all the good players play Clan, so you don't have to worry about that too much ;p

If by "stack up favorably" you mean "not pure crap against" I can go along with that. The exception, for the moment, is the firestarter.

Otherwise, Clantech simply beats IS tech.

As to the "superior pilot in an inferior plane..." stuff, I reference WWII Zero vs Wildcat. It took two very well trained Wildcat pilots to be the equivalent of a single Zero pilot, and even then, the lack of self-sealing tanks made a large difference.

In the case of Bearcats vs Raiden/Zero, the plane beat the enemy as the Bearcat pilots had mere seconds in combat in those airframes against seasoned Japanese pilots (not many pilots left by that time, really).

The saying sounds good, but it's not really the case for the most part.

[Tuku]

You all speak as if one side has an insurmountable advantage over the other. If this where 100% true then the clans should be at least to Terra by now and crying for periphery planets to conquer when they get done with the IS. If those who say IS tech is OP where right the clans should no longer exist anymore, they would have been pushed all the way out by their superior technology. The fact that there is progress in both direction means that both sides have major advantages over the other. (Example, Laservomit Timberwolves for Clans and 10dps pinpoint Dragons for IS) There are ways to get around it. There are still ways to win.

[Necromantion]

Clan tech does not always beat IS. Their AC's are utter garbage compared to IS. Also due to quirks Clan mechs run much hotter than most comprable IS builds.

Not complaining, but just like Tuku said the gap really isnt that significant and there are advantages and disadvantages to each faction

[o0Marduk0o]

Seems to be hard to build IS mechs with quirks in mind.