73 replies to this topic

[Ursh]

Satan n stuff, on 22 February 2015 - 01:36 PM, said:

Omnipods

That's BS and you know it. Why is the Myst Lynx so much tinier than the Kitfox, despite being 5 tons lighter?

How does a Spider that uses up all its internal structure with an XL engine, ferro fibrous and endo steel, all of which is supposed to be bulky, end up being smaller than just about everything except the locust?

[Davers]

Senor Cataclysmo, on 22 February 2015 - 12:36 PM, said:

This is true, but the clan lights in particular are grossly out of scale. Both the kitfox and adder should be smaller than the mist lynx. The nova should be small (I know partially this is down to the redesign having a waist, but its still massive).

Be glad PGI doesn't use this picture as a reference for size. Fire Moth, Ice Ferret, and Mist Lynx are all taller than the Stormcrow, and only 1 meter less than a Warhawk? If you don't mind 20 ton mechs the size of assaults I guess...

[Satan n stuff]

Ursh, on 22 February 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

That's BS and you know it. Why is the Myst Lynx so much tinier than the Kitfox, despite being 5 tons lighter?

It's bigger than a Commando, so there you have it, omnipods.

[Senor Cataclysmo]

Davers, on 22 February 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

Be glad PGI doesn't use this picture as a reference for size. Fire Moth, Ice Ferret, and Mist Lynx are all taller than the Stormcrow, and only 1 meter less than a Warhawk? If you don't mind 20 ton mechs the size of assaults I guess...

That is true to be fair. I think each weight class on this chart is in scale with itself, but the size doesnt increase nearly enough between tiers. Timber taller than dire? No thanks! I dont think the DWF & WHK are tall enough in MWO, never mind on this scale.

Also, Lord Braxton has the way of it. There are some *terribly* scaled IS mechs too. Catapult anyone? I just want to see a start made on the problem really, with the assurance that my own personal badly scaled favourites will get looked at eventually.

[Brody319]

Senor Cataclysmo, on 22 February 2015 - 02:07 PM, said:

That is true to be fair. I think each weight class on this chart is in scale with itself, but the size doesnt increase nearly enough between tiers. Timber taller than dire? No thanks! I dont think the DWF & WHK are tall enough in MWO, never mind on this scale.

Also, Lord Braxton has the way of it. There are some *terribly* scaled IS mechs too. Catapult anyone? I just want to see a start made on the problem really, with the assurance that my own personal badly scaled favourites will get looked at eventually.

looking at the person they have for reference pretty much every Clan heavy and assault is about the same height.

I think they could shrink some mechs, but I don't think I want that chart to be the one they use because some chassis would be ******.

[NeoAres]

Brody319, on 22 February 2015 - 02:09 PM, said:

looking at the person they have for reference pretty much every Clan heavy and assault is about the same height.

I think they could shrink some mechs, but I don't think I want that chart to be the one they use because some chassis would be ******.

yeah that chart looks pretty ridiculous. I think the people who drew it cared about as much about scaling as PGI does

Edited by NeoAres, 22 February 2015 - 03:04 PM.

[Xythius]

NeoAres, on 22 February 2015 - 03:04 PM, said:

yeah that chart looks pretty ridiculous. I think the people who drew it cared about as much about scaling as PGI does

Well, to be fair, the game for which those heights are for, it really doesn't matter how tall/wide the 'mechs are. Terrain is based on 'levels'; level 1, 2, etc. And if you are behind level 1 terrain relative to your attacker, they could only hit your torso's, arms and head, regardless of 'mech height/width. So scaling is largely irrelevant.

[Senor Cataclysmo]

The humans in these images for 'scale' are much too big aswell. How would that guy even fit in the KFX?
Theres also that one TRO image where its like, a commando, enforcer, grasshopper & banshee scaled with tanks and dropships, & the human in that is much too big aswell, wouldnt even be able to sit down in the light tank, never mind the mech cockpits.

Is inconsistent scaling just a thing with western sci fi that originates from the '80s? Wh40K can be a bit sloppy like this too. I have a friend who's mad into Gundam & whenever we shoot the **** about giant robots he makes a point that all the robots in that have official weights and dimensions & everythings in scale.

Edited by Senor Cataclysmo, 22 February 2015 - 03:38 PM.

[KrazedOmega]

InspectorG, on 22 February 2015 - 01:08 PM, said:

I highly doubt the will invest resources into re-scaling.

Its a small gripe though, PGI should just keep this in mind for future releases.

I do hope Fat Gargles is taller than the Whale.

Players have been telling PGI for two years already that mech scaling is off for a FPS game. They haven't taken it into consideration yet, I doubt they'll start now.

[Xetelian]

Lights could use some tinkering but the mediums are freaking huge.

[KamikazeRat]

Clans use lighter weight materials like Aluminum and Titanium for the Kitfox and built a lot of access room in between parts. Inner sphere just use whatever they have laying around, so the spider has a lot of lead in it and crammed everything as tightly as possibly.

So same weights different volumes. If you're looking for a realistic answer, it's pretty easy to imagine.

Gameplay, yeah, scaling is all out of wack. Always has been.

[Tennex]

FupDup, on 22 February 2015 - 12:26 PM, said:

Part of its problem is copy-pasting the Puma's legs.

yeah. But the adder is a big too to be honest.

This scale problem also occurs with the nova, and will happen with the executioner.


I don't see why they don't just shrink the legs slightly for the different mechs that share components but need to be smaller.

[sperkins]

think of the spider like a laptop, all the parts are shoehorned and made-to-fit. the kitfox is like a tower, you need a lot of room to accomodate different form factor omnipods.... which makes as much sense as a poopy-flavored lolipop considering that the IS mechs are fully customizable whereas the clans arent....?

the real reason i chimed in was to clarify the relationship between size and weight/volume (we don't know the density so we assume an average...) It is not linear, it is exponential. if you double (multiply by 2) the size of a thing the volume doesn't double (x2), it gets double doubled (2x2^2). that's why a 100ton atlas isnt THAT much bigger than a 50t Hunchback.

[Jin Ma]

Yeah its a huge kick in the face for the kit fox

[Tennex]

PGI has no formal process in their mech production pipeline for properly scaling mechs. Nor do they care to from what it seems like.

But i gotta say the new vindicatior, ice ferret (a tinybit small) and the enforcer seem to be scaled well. Maybe they are getting it together.

Clan wave 2 mechs the light(mist lynx) and medium(ice ferret) mechs are scaled much smaller than Clan Wave I mechs. It appears at least that they know that they made a mistake and are compensating for it in the subsequent releases. That doesn't help fix the older misscaled mechs tho.

Hopefully they get the wave 3 mech scales right. Wouldn't want them wreckign the Shadowcat

Edited by Tennex, 22 February 2015 - 05:38 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

Senor Cataclysmo, on 22 February 2015 - 03:37 PM, said:

The humans in these images for 'scale' are much too big aswell. How would that guy even fit in the KFX?
Theres also that one TRO image where its like, a commando, enforcer, grasshopper & banshee scaled with tanks and dropships, & the human in that is much too big aswell, wouldnt even be able to sit down in the light tank, never mind the mech cockpits.

Is inconsistent scaling just a thing with western sci fi that originates from the '80s? Wh40K can be a bit sloppy like this too. I have a friend who's mad into Gundam & whenever we shoot the **** about giant robots he makes a point that all the robots in that have official weights and dimensions & everythings in scale.

I take it you mean this image:


Actually, the man in the picture is scaled correctly, if one assumes that the 65-metric-ton Rommel tank parked at the feet of the Grasshopper is roughly the same size as the 62-metric-ton M1A2 Abrams MBT.





Note that the Abrams has a hull length of 26.02 ft (7.93 m), an overall width of 12 ft (3.66 m), an overall height of 8 ft (2.44 m), and holds a 4-man crew (commander, gunner, loader, driver) inside itself.

Likewise, the Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun in BattleTech is probably about the same size as the Jagdpanzer 38 with which it shares its name & role.
For reference, the Jagdpanzer 38 was 6.38 m (20 ft 11 in) long, 2.63 m (8 ft 8 in) wide, 2.17 m (7 ft 1 in) tall, and held a crew of four (4) men inside itself.

So, yes, the scaling of the vehicles in that image is fine, especially when one actually considers/looks-up the dimensions of their real-world counterparts.

Edited by Strum Wealh, 23 February 2015 - 08:24 AM.

[FupDup]

Tennex, on 22 February 2015 - 05:29 PM, said:

yeah. But the adder is a big too to be honest.

This scale problem also occurs with the nova, and will happen with the executioner.


I don't see why they don't just shrink the legs slightly for the different mechs that share components but need to be smaller.

The Gladiator gets more armor than the Gargles, so it being similar in size to the Gargles won't be as bad.

It would be super sad to see the Viper be scaled Nova size. The Nova is already known for hitbox issues as it is, now try reducing its armor capacity to 40 tonner amounts...


Shrinking down the shared parts between mechs would be nice, like having a Vulture not be almost as big as a Mad Cat, but that probably won't ever happen. It's sad.

[Soy]

How big is a jump ship compared to a drop ship? War ship? Etc.

:>

edit - scale-wise, not tonnage etc

Edited by Soy, 22 February 2015 - 06:37 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

Soy, on 22 February 2015 - 06:35 PM, said:

How big is a jump ship compared to a drop ship? War ship? Etc.

:>

edit - scale-wise, not tonnage etc

The typical Union-class DropShip is canonically 81.5 meters in diameter & 78 meters tall (so, it's not perfectly spherical).

The typical Invader-class JumpShip is 505 meters long, and its solar sail has a diameter of 1024 meters when fully deployed.

The Leviathan-class Battleships are the largest known WarShips, with a length of 1700 meters.
For more typical examples of Warships, corvettes (such as the Fox-class and Inazuma-class) tend to be in the 400-500 meter range, frigates (such as the Kyushu-class and Eagle-class) tend to be in the 600-700 meter range, and typical cruisers (such as the Avalon-class and the Aegis-class) tend to be in the 700-900 meter range.

To put this in perspective, the US Navy's Nimitz-class supercarriers are 332.8 meters long, and the USS Enterprise (CVN-65) (the current record holder for world's longest naval vessel) is 342 meters long.
The largest ship to be built, the Seawise Giant, was 458.45 meters long.

Edited by Strum Wealh, 23 February 2015 - 08:55 AM.

[Tennex]

I miss the cute lil ones from MW4