38 replies to this topic

[wanderer]

Many moons ago, we stuck new players in Trials, at reduced rates of C-bill gain even.

Naturally, this was hell on earth. It got changed: Trials stopped having a C-bill penalty.

This still wasn't good enough to reasonably get a new player their first new 'Mech: so we added the Cadet Bonus, where the first 25 games were at a significant payout bonus. New players at least got their first 'Mech money at a reasonable rate, and things were decent enough.

Now, we have new players coming into CW.

CW takes four 'Mechs to perform decently, as trials suffer the same disadvantages as they do in public queue. We have newbies that are barely through cadet bonus jumping straight into CW, crashing, and burning as experienced players blow their three sub-optimal 'Mechs out from front to back.

Why not apply a similar bonus (over a longer period of time) for your first CW matches? And yes, I do mean a lot of them. This serves a double purpose. That is:

Apply the bonus for the first 50 matches. That's Five-Zero. CW takes more time (in finding and playing) than public queue, and is more demanding overall. This bonus applies to C-bill gain ONLY, not LP or Exp. Basically, the same bonus you get for public match #1, you get for CW match #1 and #2 (yes, two CW matches giving effective 2x the bonus as one public). Public #2 = CW #3 and #4, and so on- just like public cadet bonus declines with each game, CW cadet bonus would after every two.

50 CW matches+ 25 public matches with bonuses should be enough to earn a new player at least the money for a minimal drop deck, and a longer CW bonus time will also attract more players to settle in CW for a while, encounter friendly recruiting units, and in general be up for the greater stresses in CW play- or toughened up enough in the CW queue to handle public queue easily. Further, it'll be a carrot to draw current public queue players into CW- and hopefully with a better result that before.

[Caustic Canid]

+1

[Yokaiko]

wanderer, on 22 February 2015 - 06:23 PM, said:

50 CW matches+ 25 public matches with bonuses should be enough to earn a new player at least the money for a minimal drop deck, and a longer CW bonus time will also attract more players to settle in CW for a while, encounter friendly recruiting units, and in general be up for the greater stresses in CW play- or toughened up enough in the CW queue to handle public queue easily. Further, it'll be a carrot to draw current public queue players into CW- and hopefully with a better result that before.

50 matches
pugging
in trials

.......ouch

[Ace Selin]

No never, this will encourage new players with trial mechs playing CW.. that's the last thing we want.
Having a penalty for being in trial mechs like -10% cbills for every trial mech would be good.

If you play CW you should have a drop deck, the knowledge and the cbills to match, hence why I advocate blocking CW until you have played 50 pug/ 12man matches or similar length, for new players of the game.

[Uklistan]

I agree to the position of the OP and idea. However, I'd say a 25% c-bills boost over the public matches and award a few mechs bays in there. Nothing over the top but maybe 2 or 3. I also wouldn't be apposed to a achievement for completing 50 CW matches being a c-bill or even a mech bonus.

[jeirhart]

We do not want to encourage brand new players (those running around in Trial 'Mechs) to participate in Community Warfare. If anything we want to discourage them or prevent them from participating entirely, perhaps until certain achievements are met.

These brand new players have no chance in trail 'mechs in pure pug matches or otherwise. At worst it could drive them away from MechWarrior Online completely. Better option would be to prevent players from participating in CW entirely until they have completely all the Cadet Bonus achievements or some other milestone that ensures they have at least the basics of piloting down (moving and shooting).

I am of the opinion Trial 'Mechs should not even be usable in Community Warfare.

[ice trey]

We could also handle it another way and lock players out of playing Community Warfare for their first 100 matches or so.

It will encourage them to buy enough mechs to have a full drop deck, and would keep green players out of the pug cue, etc.

Edited by ice trey, 23 February 2015 - 12:26 AM.

[Yokaiko]

I've said it in other threads.

No CW option unless you have your own dropdeck, or you have a unit tag.

[NextGame]

add some achievements that are geared towards new players that give them a couple of mechs to own, like a trebuchet, or a centurion or something like that. Probably a better option than having a team full of trials getting fielded.

[Seth]

I would greatly prefer players not be able to take Trials in CW. It's a serious game mode where wins and losses have actual consequences. I would even prefer risking an attacking faction getting turret drops against us than letting a full team get quick matches by having the Call to Arms feed them easy kills.

[Mercules]

We do not want to encourage brand new players in trial mechs to take on 12 man groups with heavily practiced tactics in fully upgraded and mastered mechs with full modules. CW is "endgame content". You don't encourage a level 5 character in starter gear to enter a raid zone in an MMO. Why is this concept so hard to grasp here?

[Vassago Rain]

Yeah, man.
We gotta make sure no new player ever gets to experience the full game.

Keep income low so they can't use the mechlab. Give them bad trials with CT ammo and one jumpjet so they never get to improve as players. Put an elo and 2000 matches played limit on CW so they can't even try it out.

Forget making the game more accessible. This is hardcore mechwarrior. You think you're HARD? Maybe you are, but you gotta be M.A.X. HARD for this. MWO isn't your father's mechwarrior, man. Bro, do you even lift? My muscles have little muscles, and those little muscles are strong enough to lift atlases.

MWO is for the hardcore devoted 3 year veterans only, bro. Sorry, go back to your call of duty and team fortress. We don't want your kind around here, stranger.



You guys realize how foolish you are, right? This is a troll infested thread, right? Right?

I guess not. MWO's gonna die when they go steam.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 23 February 2015 - 05:53 AM.

[jeirhart]

Community Warfare is not the full game but it is the END game. We are not suggesting that we should punish new players or hurt their experience. We are not suggesting that we keep income low. We are not suggesting that we give them bad trial 'mechs. We are not even suggesting that we put an ELO and 2000 matches played limit on CW so they can not even try it out.

Instead we are merely suggesting that the new player should be gradually guided through the game; given time to learn and grow as a player in MWO before they are tossed into the deep end that is Community Warfare. Many of the trial 'mechs are bad and should never be used in Community Warfare even by good players. It would be very helpful if the trials were updated based on the quirks given out with the builds favored by the meta. Let the new players learn with these trial 'mechs in public queue, eventually obtaining their own purchased 'mechs. Then once they are really ready they will be free to participate in Community Warfare with the skills they have learned and the 'mechs they have mastered.

I would even propose that letting new players jump into Community Warfare immediately upon installing is NOT a good idea and would only HURT their experience in MechWarrior Online. Bringing trial 'mechs to CW combined with their low experience level will only result in roflstomps from which they will only emerge frustrated and upset, having learned nothing of the game. Meanwhile older and more experienced players on their team have to compensate for their inexperience and may grow frustrated themselves.

Public queue exists. Many players spend their time there. Some spend all their time there. Pretty much every event PGI has held has involved public queue. There is no reason why new players should not learn and grow in public queue first then transition into Community Warfare once they are ready.

Edited by jeirhart, 23 February 2015 - 06:31 AM.

[Stoned Prophet]

No. New players shouldnt be allowed in CW.

[Darth Hotz]

Bad idea. Isnt there enough PUG stomping in CW already? Bringing in even more beginners in CW will only end up with more frustration on all sides. On the PUG side because they have no chance and are just bait that gets farmed and on the units side because there will rarely be a challenge in CW then. Then the whining will begin in even more threads.

Dont get me wrong, i welcome every new player to MWO and im in favor of the (maybe) upcoming Steam integration, but to be part of CW you should have experience in this game.

[Harathan]

Vassago Rain, on 23 February 2015 - 05:51 AM, said:

I guess not. MWO's gonna die when they go steam.

More or less. MWO will rise or fall entirely depending on the outcome of the Steam switch.

[Mercules]

Vassago Rain, on 23 February 2015 - 05:51 AM, said:

MWO is for the hardcore devoted 3 year veterans only, bro. Sorry, go back to your call of duty and team fortress. We don't want your kind around here, stranger.

In nearly all MMOs "Endgame Content" is for characters at or near max level with proper gear. In fact the start of a player accessing End Game content is usually easier content that let's them earn the gear they need to take on the more advanced endgame.

CW is "Endgame Content". In CW most teams will be 8-12 grouped players with practiced tactics, mastered mechs, and expensive modules equipped, all things new players and especially TRIAL MECH using players will not have. Having one or two that way in a normal match is not a big deal, having a whole team with their maxed out mech vrs a team where the majority are all in trials is asking for those new players to have a miserable experience.

[Caustic Canid]

CW is srs business I guess.

If I recall correctly, the whole "persistent world" thing was pitched as a core mechanic of MWO. Just because it took us this long to get it doesn't make it "end game".

[Triordinant]

Caustic Canid, on 23 February 2015 - 12:28 PM, said:

CW is srs business I guess.

If I recall correctly, the whole "persistent world" thing was pitched as a core mechanic of MWO. Just because it took us this long to get it doesn't make it "end game".

You are correct. That was the original plan. Unfortunately, the way it works right now CW is for all intents and purposes end game content. For a look at how it could have been, see here.

[wanderer]

Yokaiko, on 22 February 2015 - 11:15 PM, said:

50 matches
pugging
in trials

.......ouch

They're already doing it anyway. Let me say this again.

It's already happening. I regularly see people dropping in Trials. Repeatedly. You don't want to know how many Stalker kills I get during CW matches that way. I want them out of those shooting galleries on legs in a reasonable amount of time, and given the current content, a cadet bonus will mean that ideally, they'll be picking up more and more of a complete drop deck as those 50 games progress, rather than being stuck and frustrated with the minimal rewards getting rolled result in.

I'd also like to see the completed cadet bonus for public queue be -required- to enter a CW contract. That way, people get at least some modest experience with basic piloting first.

As it stands, we're getting people who are beyond merely green pilots in CW, who after exposure to CW end up never coming back. I want those people to stay, to have a decent start- and, if they decide not to, well at least they gave it an honest go and they can go have fun in pubbie queue with some extra C-bills for the experience. I'll wish them well.