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Partial Double Heat Sinks


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#1 Paigan

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Posted 23 February 2015 - 12:35 PM

Posted Image


Motivation:

Very often, trying to build a proper loadout leads to results like this:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c270267b803a01a

Or especially painful, this:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...fed67f4c158361e

(Please don't discuss the tactical viability of those builds at this point, they are only meant exemplary)

Despite having enough free weight AND slot space, no more heat sinks can be mounted.
This is frustrating and kind of unfair compared to the half ton ammunitions.
This is NOT some indirect energy-versus-ammo balancing, it's an obvious loadout consistency oversight by Battletech rules.
Ammo weapons create heat as well and balancing of energy weapons against them is a matter of the weapon's stats, not a matter of slot count modulo conflicts.

I know there are some limited "other ways" to make the fittings work, e.g. stuffing in a targeting computer, a BAP, or similar.
But in the end, that's nothing more than a makeshift "solution out of embarrassment" (doesn't translate well from German).



Therefore, I suggest introducing "Partial Double Heat Sinks".
(Because "half double" would sound kind of silly)

with the following stats:

Partial Double Heat Sink - Inner Sphere
Weight: 0.5 tons
Space: 2 slots
Cooling: -0.07 H/s, +0.7 buffer (50% of a full DHS)

Partial Double Heat Sink - Clans
Weight: 0.5 tons
Space: 1 slot
Cooling: -0.05 H/s, +0.5 buffer (36% of a full DHS)



Rationale:

Balance
Both version are less efficient than using a full 1-ton DHS, so there is no advantage in using multiple partial DHS in the same component instead of a full DHS.
They are really only to make better use of slot gaps in components.

Story
Consistent to the full DHS, the clan version is similarily more efficient than the IS version as it occupies only half the space for only slightly less cooling effect (clans have "smaller" but better partial DHS).

Consistency
There are already half ammunition packs with similar weight/slot ratio, so it would only be consistent to have such DHS as well.

Canon
I don't see this as "breaking" the canon rules, more like extending them. No existing rule or value is contradicted, there is simply something additional that provides a useful, but balanced new possibility.

Implementation
The required effort should be rather minimal.
No existing loadouts would be affected, stock or otherwise.
No rules or GUI would have to be changed.
It's a simple matter of introducing a new equipment item with a new set of values.


As a personal side note, I don't quite get why PGI sticks so slavishly to the very often nonsensical original Battletech rules but painfully fiddles on additional values like cooldown, projectile velocity or laser duration for balancing the game. If something in the established rules is obviously ill-conceived (e.g. clan LRM slots, general AC weight & heat, missing heavier MGs or smaller PPCs, missing advantage of FF over Endo-Steel, etc.), then it must be allowed to adjust it to make the game more viable as a whole.

Thank you for reading

Edited by Paigan, 25 February 2015 - 05:53 AM.


#2 Burktross

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Posted 23 February 2015 - 01:04 PM

As much as I like this, tabletop purists will be up in arms.
Edit. Scratch that. We already have half tons of ammo for non MGs and our heatsinks don't function at full capacity anyway.

Support.

Edited by Burktross, 23 February 2015 - 01:05 PM.


#3 TheArisen

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 02:58 AM

I'm guessing you'd have to unlock doubles for your mech first? The same thing could be done for singles, if only for consistency.

#4 Paigan

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 03:11 AM

View PostTheArisen, on 24 February 2015 - 02:58 AM, said:

I'm guessing you'd have to unlock doubles for your mech first? The same thing could be done for singles, if only for consistency.

Yes, of course. The partial variant could be chosen like the full DHS only if you have the mech set to DHS.

#5 Paigan

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 07:57 AM

Bump!


*running away giggling*

#6 Lordred

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 09:11 AM

Fixxed.

and

Fixxed.

#7 Paigan

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 06:10 AM

View PostLordred, on 10 March 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:


Thank your for your very narrow-minded and beside-the-point contribution.

The POINT is:
There ARE many situations where there's both space and tonnage AND the will to fit heatsinks, but the rules don't allow it for no apparent reason.
There are makeshit second-best solutions (like yours), but they are no proper solution.

Also, I explicitely mentioned to not refer to the two links specifically but to see them only as visualiation of the problem.

And because it's so funny, a note on the linked "fixes":

SCR:
You did not reduce the heat creation, but instead increased it.
You also introduced a third type of weapon that makes efficient usage of all weapons even harder.
AND you still have empty slots.

BLR:
What if I told you the idea was to have a non-ammo-dependant mech?
What if no tonnage should be squandered on makeshift equipment like BAP but should be desperately invested in heat sinks?
AND of course you still have empty slots.


May I add that your post seems exactely as crazy as I perceived Liaos in the novels.
Great roleplay! :wacko:

#8 Karl Streiger

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 06:17 AM

Wouldn't it be enough to allow mixed heatsinks?

In this case SHS wouldn't be a pointless gimick that will be sold asap.

BTW:
Novels is Davion Propaganda Crap - Liaos are not crazy nor stupid.
The whole truth will blow your mind - and after that we see who is crazy

Edited by Karl Streiger, 13 March 2015 - 06:19 AM.


#9 Lordred

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 06:22 AM

Just stop trying to Min/Max and have some fun.

#10 Karl Streiger

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 07:50 AM

View PostLordred, on 13 March 2015 - 06:22 AM, said:

Just stop trying to Min/Max and have some fun.

Ok mabye he is right - fun in MWO? You are crazy, indeed :D

#11 Lordred

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 07:55 AM

View PostKarl Streiger, on 13 March 2015 - 07:50 AM, said:

Ok mabye he is right - fun in MWO? You are crazy, indeed :D


Indeed.

Posted Image

#12 TheArisen

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 10:45 AM

I like this idea, at the very least we should be able to mix and match singles and doubles, just so that singles have a real place in the game.

#13 Burktross

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 12:32 PM

View PostLordred, on 13 March 2015 - 06:22 AM, said:

Just stop trying to Min/Max and have some fun.

I suppose you only play stock?

#14 Lordred

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 01:13 PM

View PostBurktross, on 13 March 2015 - 12:32 PM, said:

I suppose you only play stock?


The bulk of my mechs use default loadouts with adjustments to heatsinks, structure, and defensive parts (ams) and bap.

Edited by Lordred, 13 March 2015 - 01:15 PM.


#15 Burktross

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 04:05 PM

View PostLordred, on 13 March 2015 - 01:13 PM, said:

The bulk of my mechs use default loadouts with adjustments to heatsinks, structure, and defensive parts (ams) and bap.

Isn't that just as much minmaxing as anyone else?

#16 Lordred

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 04:14 PM

View PostBurktross, on 13 March 2015 - 04:05 PM, said:

Isn't that just as much minmaxing as anyone else?


I am not complaining about 'wasted' criticals

Edited by Lordred, 13 March 2015 - 04:14 PM.


#17 Burktross

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 04:16 PM

View PostLordred, on 13 March 2015 - 04:14 PM, said:


I am not complaining about 'wasted' criticals

Then I suppose you view half-ton ammo as a minmaxing agent as well?

#18 Lordred

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 07:12 PM

View PostBurktross, on 13 March 2015 - 04:16 PM, said:

Then I suppose you view half-ton ammo as a minmaxing agent as well?


I view it as wasted crits :)

I have on one build or another, used 1/2 ton ammo slots, but I do not make it a point to cry about it.

There are however other things I do make a fuss about :ph34r:

#19 Demon Horde

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 08:40 AM

I agree with TheArisen they should just allow mixed heat sinks. SHS rarely get used any more and this (mixed heat sinks) would bring them back to the game instantly.

#20 TheArisen

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 10:09 AM

Should make this a poll, Should there be partial heat sinks, be able to mix&match or just no.





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