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Cw Design Suggestion


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#1 LoklanZFG

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Posted 23 February 2015 - 05:16 PM

I just wanted to drop a suggestion that might improve the balance and overall design of the Invasion game mode with just a few relatively simple changes.

First, always have the attacking faction in attack mode in the match and the defending faction always on defense in the match.

Second, the winner of a match always gains a tick/percentage on the planet. If the attacker wins the percentage goes up, if the defender wins it goes down.

Third, to make this balanced we need Invasion to be kind of a hybrid between the current attack/defense and counter-attack/hold territory match types:

Win conditions would be the same as counter attack/hold territory. Defenders need more kills or defend Omega for 30 minutes, attackers need more kills and destroy Omega. This would end the light rush cheese for really fast attacker wins if Omega wasn't their only win condition (e; this also makes the time required to build up attacker control on a planet disproportionate to the time it takes for defenders to reverse the progress).
The base itself would have the Omega cannons and gates like in attack/defense. But no turrets, just like in counter attack/hold territory. This would leave the defenders with the very slight tactical advantage of being the defenders (choosing where you want to engage, since they have to come to you) while not putting the attackers at the disadvantage of having to push into turrets as well as mechs 100% of the time. If the attackers pull off the feat of destroying Omega while maintaining a kill lead, then the tactical advantage would shift to them since they can choose where they want to make their stand and the defenders have to push them to re-gain the kill lead.


The side with more numbers would still have the advantage of getting a free percentage on the planet control progress while their comrades have the enemy teams tied up in matches that will last 20+ minutes (with light rush cheese gone), but if the other side wins enough they can nullify those gains.

These changes would make every match played carry the same weight towards determining who wins the planet instead of getting stuck with endless hold territory/defense matches that can't change the control percentage, just because the other side has more numbers waiting in queue to assault a new tick every time you get out of a match. It would also slow down attackers control progress, since they couldn't just run lights or steamroll right for omega and win in less than 10 minutes

All in all, being the defender of a planet or having greater numbers fighting there should each give you an advantage over your opponent. These changes would reflect that, but not to a hopeless degree.

Edited by LoklanZFG, 23 February 2015 - 05:55 PM.


#2 LoklanZFG

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Posted 23 February 2015 - 05:47 PM

Hypothetical situation with this design: A planet is at 33% attacker control with 2 groups each from House Kurita and Clan Smoke Jaguar. A third group from CSJ queues up for attack to make it 36/24. If no one shows up within 10 minutes to fight them, they get a ghost drop.

A) Both teams from House Kurita win, and the net change on planet control would be +1 Kurita

B ) One Kurita team gets a win, and one CSJ team gets a win, the net change would be +1 CSJ due to the numbers advantage

C) Both teams from CSJ win, and the net change is +3 CSJ, reflecting both higher numbers and battlefield success.

P.S. please prod people to come look at this and leave a yay or nay. 48 mech Invasion battles are the most fun I've had in online gaming in a long time, and we can all help make this better and more fun for everyone when it comes out of beta! :D

Edited by LoklanZFG, 23 February 2015 - 10:35 PM.


#3 Prussian Havoc

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Posted 23 February 2015 - 10:05 PM

In paragraph Five you cut right to the heart of what frustrates the most gamers - the overwhelming success of Three Successive Light Rushes when each rush consists of 4 ECM Spiders and 8 Firestarters.

It really was quite sad, the misplaced and soon to be extinguished pride we dozen Smoke Jaguars felt when we killed of the last Mech of the second wave of such a rush with but a sliver of our Omega remaining.

TWO WHOLE LIGHT RUSHES DENIED.

All Streak Boats had been focused during the Waves 1 and 2's ingress, those few remaining were all but out of Streaks, one-legged or hadn't survived to this point.

Just as we formed up to climb over the left corner of Alpha Gate... sailing over this same Alpha Gate appeared the looming Spector of 12 intermittent Radar Contacts... before our disbelieving eyes and empty SRM racks these new crop of Spiders and Firestarters swarmed us and then the Omega.

Just finishing one such wave is the mark of a Good Team.

Finishing a second such wave is unheard of.

Losing to a third Such wave is all but assured.



There has to be a better way to deal with light rushes and your suggestion to have multiple Victory conditions is a quite excellent one.

I am not sure how high the count should be. Should it be a simple majority at all time?
Would a threshold condition of say... 59% of the Enemy Team must be eliminated in in addition to the Omega?

I am not sure what a better means of reigning in Light Rush effectiveness could be (perhaps Thunder LRM munitions, that emplacement temporary mines in a small concentration, that are set to take Light Mechs Legs. Legs that prematurely detonate against the ground vibrations of Heavier Mechs.)

Anyhow I trust PGI is working on a variety of potential solutions to the Zerg-Rush and I look forward to testing out whatever comes next, whether it be your Multiple Win Conditions option or something else entirely.


GREAT OP, I look forward to reading this thread as it evolves... Good job!

#4 Carpenocturn

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Posted 23 February 2015 - 11:32 PM

Great suggestions

I would put forward that capturing and having to hold objectives could alleviate a whole lot of mad rush stuff and give a purpose to taking Assaults over plodding to the battlefield for 10secs of firing

#5 Crockdaddy

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 08:53 AM

View PostPrussian Havoc, on 23 February 2015 - 10:05 PM, said:

In paragraph Five you cut right to the heart of what frustrates the most gamers - the overwhelming success of Three Successive Light Rushes when each rush consists of 4 ECM Spiders and 8 Firestarters.

It really was quite sad, the misplaced and soon to be extinguished pride we dozen Smoke Jaguars felt when we killed of the last Mech of the second wave of such a rush with but a sliver of our Omega remaining.

TWO WHOLE LIGHT RUSHES DENIED.

All Streak Boats had been focused during the Waves 1 and 2's ingress, those few remaining were all but out of Streaks, one-legged or hadn't survived to this point.

Just as we formed up to climb over the left corner of Alpha Gate... sailing over this same Alpha Gate appeared the looming Spector of 12 intermittent Radar Contacts... before our disbelieving eyes and empty SRM racks these new crop of Spiders and Firestarters swarmed us and then the Omega.

Just finishing one such wave is the mark of a Good Team.

Finishing a second such wave is unheard of.

Losing to a third Such wave is all but assured.



There has to be a better way to deal with light rushes and your suggestion to have multiple Victory conditions is a quite excellent one.

I am not sure how high the count should be. Should it be a simple majority at all time?
Would a threshold condition of say... 59% of the Enemy Team must be eliminated in in addition to the Omega?

I am not sure what a better means of reigning in Light Rush effectiveness could be (perhaps Thunder LRM munitions, that emplacement temporary mines in a small concentration, that are set to take Light Mechs Legs. Legs that prematurely detonate against the ground vibrations of Heavier Mechs.)

Anyhow I trust PGI is working on a variety of potential solutions to the Zerg-Rush and I look forward to testing out whatever comes next, whether it be your Multiple Win Conditions option or something else entirely.


GREAT OP, I look forward to reading this thread as it evolves... Good job!



We feel your pain Prussian,

Our basic premise to counter light waves is to essentially attack with a light defense. We get out the gate ahead of time with scouts and have a regular pattern setup to handle these situations. We have stopped 3 waves of lights a few times but it is difficult of course and NS unlike CSJ have fast lights to make this work. We of course cannot run any streak boats of consequence so we choose to attack when defending (which you already know from experience).

Being an IS pilot, I do think it is cheesy to run 3 full light waves but one man's cheese is another mans path to victory. I sometimes feel cheesed when I see 12 Madcats :)

#6 MungFuSensei

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 09:02 PM

This would pretty much solve all lingering problems with CW at the moment. Money and loyalty points are not enough to balance populations. The counterattack system puts way too much emphasis on overwhelming numbers.





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