15 replies to this topic

[Chemie]

Currently the first side to have a 12-man in the queue gets to do the attack (or counter if defending).

What this means is that if a faction can keep +12 (one 12-man) ahead in the queue, they win.

For attackers, if they have one more 12-man, always, they will get attacks. As long as they win some, they will slowly win the planet.

Worse, for defenders, if they keep this number game going, they can lose 100% of all matches and still hold the planet (every attacker is faced with counter-attack and can't win a new sector).

CW is already mostly about "the numbers win" but I hate that factions can "win" planets with 100% game lose rate just by exploiting the stupid design decision of PGI.

PGI needs to randomize" attack/counter-attack instead of first in the 12-man decides.

(or any number of other things like rewarding successful counter-attack wins). Being on attack and having 10-in-a-row counters, with 100% win rate, with nothing to show in the end, is not fun and exposes the huge design flaw.

Edited by Chemie, 24 February 2015 - 02:14 PM.

[Brusana]

Chemie, on 24 February 2015 - 02:13 PM, said:

Currently the first side to have a 12-man in the queue gets to do the attack (or counter if defending).

What this means is that if a faction can keep +12 (one 12-man) ahead in the queue, they win.

For attackers, if they have one more 12-man, always, they will get attacks. As long as they win some, they will slowly win the planet.

Worse, for defenders, if they keep this number game going, they can lose 100% of all matches and still hold the planet (every attacker is faced with counter-attack and can't win a new sector).

CW is already mostly about "the numbers win" but I hate that factions can "win" planets with 100% game lose rate just by exploiting the stupid design decision of PGI.

PGI needs to randomize" attack/counter-attack instead of first in the 12-man decides.

(or any number of other things like rewarding successful counter-attack wins). Being on attack and having 10-in-a-row counters, with 100% win rate, with nothing to show in the end, is not fun and exposes the huge design flaw.

Welcome to playing a frustratingly small faction. Also that's pretty much the point of counter attack.

[Chemie]

no. the point of counter attack is to allow defends to win back squares.

This makes sense. First side with an extra 12-man does not.

[Corneliusbob]

i just cannot believe this hasnt been addressed, it makes utterly no sense at all

[John1352]

This needs to be fixed. When an attacking faction can win 50 games, lose 0, and not get the planet the mechanic is broken.

[Mystere]

John1352, on 27 March 2015 - 07:17 AM, said:

This needs to be fixed. When an attacking faction can win 50 games, lose 0, and not get the planet the mechanic is broken.

Maybe I am just not seeing it, but, how is this even possible for an attacking faction?

Edited by Mystere, 27 March 2015 - 07:42 AM.

[zortesh]

Mystere, on 27 March 2015 - 07:42 AM, said:

Maybe I am just not seeing it, but, how is this even possible for an attacking faction?

Works like this.

Whoever queue's first is the attacker.

So say 3 12mans attack a planet, they win all 3 attacks.

however there are more groups defending, so they win attack, get out, try to attack again and instantly find themselves defending a counter attack because the enemy had spare 12man queue'd up, the next groups queue up, and becuase the defending group fighting that first 'attacking' group will be out and waiting to counter attack, the next "attackers" find themselves defending a counter attack, and the defending group they were fighting queues up for counter attack so when the next 'attacker' group gets out, queues up there defending vs counter attack... and so on.

So after it awhile it ends up with one side always getting the attacks, and the other side always defending because they have less numbers... you can't gain anything from a defense, so you can win 100% of the time and gain no ground.

[Leggin Ho]

Just get rid of Ghost drops and see how well folks like waiting 30,60,or90 mins to play a drop. This keeps the attackers playing, and stops the defenders from bringing all the other factions/clans from stalling attacks, but you still have to win your attacks or defenses to win or keep the planet. Allowing all factions to jump into the que for defense is what's inflating the numbers and giving all the ghost drops anyway.

[tayhimself]

Chemie, on 24 February 2015 - 02:13 PM, said:

Currently the first side to have a 12-man in the queue gets to do the attack (or counter if defending).

What this means is that if a faction can keep +12 (one 12-man) ahead in the queue, they win.

For attackers, if they have one more 12-man, always, they will get attacks. As long as they win some, they will slowly win the planet.

Worse, for defenders, if they keep this number game going, they can lose 100% of all matches and still hold the planet (every attacker is faced with counter-attack and can't win a new sector).

CW is already mostly about "the numbers win" but I hate that factions can "win" planets with 100% game lose rate just by exploiting the stupid design decision of PGI.

PGI needs to randomize" attack/counter-attack instead of first in the 12-man decides.

(or any number of other things like rewarding successful counter-attack wins). Being on attack and having 10-in-a-row counters, with 100% win rate, with nothing to show in the end, is not fun and exposes the huge design flaw.

I started playing CW for the event (pug), and I have no idea what any of this means.

[Chemie]

tayhimself, on 27 March 2015 - 06:02 PM, said:

I started playing CW for the event (pug), and I have no idea what any of this means.

Well, try reading carefully. It was also explained by another posted part way down.

There are 2 game modes (attack and counter-attack) Attack allows the attacking side to get tiles. Counter-attack allows defenders to win back tiles.

The game mode is choose by which ever side gets a 12-man first.

Ergo, if one side ALWAYS has a 12-man in the queue, waiting for a game, you will ALWAYS get a single game mode. Ergo, that side wins the planets by shear numbers.

[Lord0fHats]

I agree with you, but I'm a bit more optimistic. I think in large part the PYA challenge is a move by PGI to flood the CW map with players so they can see how things play out when everyone is playing CW. This is a good thing because hopefully, they are paying attention and will work on a fix to this problem among others (like faction population balancing) and have them ready when the CW beta ends.

Edited by Lord0fHats, 28 March 2015 - 05:23 AM.

[gloowa]

Solution is very simple: the match mode should be selected by the result of a most recent match that finished:

If the forces attacking the planet won the most recent match the next match will be an attack@invasion for them.
If they lost the most recent match the next match will be a defense@counterattack for them.

And vice-versa. This eliminates the issue of stacking queue AND simulates front line initiative dynamic somewhat. Ta-da!

Edited by gloowa, 28 March 2015 - 10:22 AM.

[Divine Retribution]

Chemie, on 24 February 2015 - 02:13 PM, said:

Currently the first side to have a 12-man in the queue gets to do the attack (or counter if defending).

What this means is that if a faction can keep +12 (one 12-man) ahead in the queue, they win.

For attackers, if they have one more 12-man, always, they will get attacks. As long as they win some, they will slowly win the planet.

Worse, for defenders, if they keep this number game going, they can lose 100% of all matches and still hold the planet (every attacker is faced with counter-attack and can't win a new sector).

CW is already mostly about "the numbers win" but I hate that factions can "win" planets with 100% game lose rate just by exploiting the stupid design decision of PGI.

PGI needs to randomize" attack/counter-attack instead of first in the 12-man decides.

(or any number of other things like rewarding successful counter-attack wins). Being on attack and having 10-in-a-row counters, with 100% win rate, with nothing to show in the end, is not fun and exposes the huge design flaw.

/signed

gloowa, on 28 March 2015 - 10:19 AM, said:

Solution is very simple: the match mode should be selected by the result of a most recent match that finished:

If the forces attacking the planet won the most recent match the next match will be an attack@invasion for them.
If they lost the most recent match the next match will be a defense@counterattack for them.

And vice-versa. This eliminates the issue of stacking queue AND simulates front line initiative dynamic somewhat. Ta-da!

That creates a problem where zerg rushing gens can still lock everything into attack until the planet is at 100%. If attack required a kill lead at the end of the match, as I think it should, it wouldn't be such a problem.

[gloowa]

Divine Retribution, on 28 March 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:

That creates a problem where zerg rushing gens can still lock everything into attack until the planet is at 100%.

I do not consider that a problem. If they rush the gens, kill them? I mean it's not like rushing the gens is some kind of damage resistance shield. And i find games on defence much more enjoyable when enemies do that - they tend to be very dynamic rather than boring snipe contests and they usually end with attackers winning/loosing by a very small margin. Yes, more than once my team was suprised by light rush that killed first 3 gens on first wave, but usually that was our own failing - not posting a scouts at each gate or calling the scouts back to the main force before establishing that all 12 enemies are actually pushing into main force. Lights trying to push through properly staggered defence (defense by depth rather than one big firing line) drop fast and usually don't manage more than 1 gen. At least that's my experience.

Side note:
I am taking a mental correction for lights bleeding damage (i feel like my lazerz deal 60% of expected damage to fast moving lights) hoping this will get better eventually.

[Davegt27]

Clan propaganda machine at work IS has been getting rolled since Dec
So for four days PGI lets the IS have their day in the sun

I am pretty sure things will swing the Clan direction

Whichever side has the greater unit number will have the advantage

Just this morning IS has been getting stomped so to me things are back to normal

[Xeraphale]

Leggin Ho, on 27 March 2015 - 02:59 PM, said:

Just get rid of Ghost drops and see how well folks like waiting 30,60,or90 mins to play a drop. This keeps the attackers playing, and stops the defenders from bringing all the other factions/clans from stalling attacks, but you still have to win your attacks or defenses to win or keep the planet. Allowing all factions to jump into the que for defense is what's inflating the numbers and giving all the ghost drops anyway.

But if ghost drops are removed then surely the best way to defend a planet is not to fight. If nobody lines up to fight then the attackers can't win and the planet remains at 0%, or the defenders just defend up to 49% and say "well, thats it lads, the funs over. Time to stop playing and keep the planet!".