18 replies to this topic

[Biclor Moban]

I was just reading a post about boycotting CW because of overpowered Clans, it was older.

In both the RPG and the previous video games the Clans bid for honor, why change that? I see some change as the ony way to differentiate Clans from just another House. We can't make them act like Clanners so make the structure a Clan structure. If they don't like it they can join the Freebirths.

I say make a bidding system for the Clans in CW.

Maybe have each player bid using 4, or 3 or 2 mechs for the whole drop the ones whom have the least get to go first. That said the tonnage allowed wouldn't change, dropships do it by weight right. So if you bid 3 you could take 2 Dires and a Myst Lynx or something. That way the drop would still start at 12 but the total number would be more in keeping with the game.The other thing is the reward would go up for using less mechs. Taking 3 might be a 50% increase in XP and money and a taking 2 might be a 100% increase and taking 1 would be a 200% increase.

Thank you for your time.
Biclor Moban.

p.s. I'm sure this has been covered before but my 2 cents.

Edited by Biclor Moban, 02 March 2015 - 01:21 AM.

[Bregor Edain]

Clans bid to minimize waste and they will bid atleast equal strength and perhaps under it. Ingame it is equal strenght for the most part. People also complain about clansmen not using zellbrigen ingame but fail to understand that those rules of engagement are made void by their own team mates when more than one fires at the same target.

I would also suggest that Inner Sphere should have Inner Sphere structure and only be allowed to defend their own territory with the only exception being Davion and Steiner since they should have been FedCom. Want to defend against the clans? Join the proper factions.Why stop there with lore? Why do we not put a limit to the number of mechs IS can bring with double heatsinks? If the freebirths want more double heatsinks they can join the clans as bondsmen!

[Necromantion]

Why? Because this is an online multiplayer FPS game. Not a single player RPG with a pvp game mode.

This game is clearly not like the rest of the MWO games in any fashion, and lore is rarely going to be the answer to fix anything that is broken in light of that.

On that note IS mechs are not underpowered, there are many IS mechs that outperform Clan mechs in a pinch.

[Apnu]

Since 95% of clan player would never consider clan honor codes, another way to motivate clan players must be found.

Here's my suggestion: Give clan players c-bill bonuses for dropping under-weight.

Clan tech is expensive so they could use the income boost.

[Bregor Edain]

Apnu, on 02 March 2015 - 09:18 AM, said:

Since 95% of clan player would never consider clan honor codes, another way to motivate clan players must be found.

Here's my suggestion: Give clan players c-bill bonuses for dropping under-weight.

Clan tech is expensive so they could use the income boost.

Dropping under weight means dropping with sub optimal/abyssmal mechs. The gains in C-bills would be lower due to lower performance.

[Caustic Canid]

This would probably end badly.

Imagine a high skill clan 12 man dropping underweight with 2 mechs only, and then proceeding to roll an I.S. pug team.

Now imagine the tide of QQ threads about clans being so OP that 1 clan mech is as good as 2 I.S. ones, despite that being nowhere near the case.

[YCSLiesmith]

Apnu, on 02 March 2015 - 09:18 AM, said:

Since 95% of clan player would never consider clan honor codes, another way to motivate clan players must be found.

Here's my suggestion: Give clan players c-bill bonuses for dropping under-weight.

Clan tech is expensive so they could use the income boost.

honestly this is a decent idea. I'd say tie clan loyalty points to dropping under weight and winning rather than straight extra cbills, though.

Bregor Edain, on 04 March 2015 - 11:48 PM, said:

Dropping under weight means dropping with sub optimal/abyssmal mechs. The gains in C-bills would be lower due to lower performance.

nah you'd just see a billion stormcrows. the real problem is, what clanner would drop in their daishi?

[Haakon Magnusson]

Apnu, on 02 March 2015 - 09:18 AM, said:

Since 95% of clan player would never consider clan honor codes, another way to motivate clan players must be found.

Here's my suggestion: Give clan players c-bill bonuses for dropping under-weight.

Clan tech is expensive so they could use the income boost.

Interesting idea, though give the c-bill bonus only on win.
Lore friendly and less exploitable

[Dawnstealer]

Biclor Moban, on 02 March 2015 - 01:20 AM, said:

I was just reading a post about boycotting CW because of overpowered Clans, it was older.

In both the RPG and the previous video games the Clans bid for honor, why change that? I see some change as the ony way to differentiate Clans from just another House. We can't make them act like Clanners so make the structure a Clan structure. If they don't like it they can join the Freebirths.

I say make a bidding system for the Clans in CW.

Maybe have each player bid using 4, or 3 or 2 mechs for the whole drop the ones whom have the least get to go first. That said the tonnage allowed wouldn't change, dropships do it by weight right. So if you bid 3 you could take 2 Dires and a Myst Lynx or something. That way the drop would still start at 12 but the total number would be more in keeping with the game.The other thing is the reward would go up for using less mechs. Taking 3 might be a 50% increase in XP and money and a taking 2 might be a 100% increase and taking 1 would be a 200% increase.

Thank you for your time.
Biclor Moban.

p.s. I'm sure this has been covered before but my 2 cents.

Pretty much agree with this. I remember one drop I had, PUG against a CJF 12-man, where about 5 minutes in, it was obvious we were going to lose (it was already 24-0, or something like). Dropping in my last mech, I issued a one-on-one challenge.

Oh, I don't think I'm a good enough pilot to actually have won, I just thought it would be fun (as opposed to being focus-fired from so far away I couldn't even see the enemy). Sure enough, the other team agreed and responded...

...with two Timberwolves and a Stormcrow.

I get it: it's a game - people will play it in a way that's fun for them. People play on teams for teamwork. Fighting one-on-one isn't very "team-y."

But there's a mechanic that would help here: C-Bill awards.

I don't know about bidding down numbers (although I would like to see Star vs Lance, or 10 v 12), but having there be ZERO rewards for Assists if you were Clans would at least de-incentivize playing in a non-lore manner.

You could also have a system of of exponetially greater rewards for Clan teams that are significantly (20+ tons) lighter than their opponent. Take away the four-mech requirement. If a Clan team thinks they're good enough to take on 48 Inner Sphere mechs in 4 (or 5) Mist Lynx, they should be allowed to...and the rewards should be HUGE for playing in character should they win (or even if they lose - this kind of behavior should be encouraged).

Bregor Edain, on 02 March 2015 - 04:09 AM, said:

Clans bid to minimize waste and they will bid atleast equal strength and perhaps under it. Ingame it is equal strenght for the most part. People also complain about clansmen not using zellbrigen ingame but fail to understand that those rules of engagement are made void by their own team mates when more than one fires at the same target.

I would also suggest that Inner Sphere should have Inner Sphere structure and only be allowed to defend their own territory with the only exception being Davion and Steiner since they should have been FedCom. Want to defend against the clans? Join the proper factions.Why stop there with lore? Why do we not put a limit to the number of mechs IS can bring with double heatsinks? If the freebirths want more double heatsinks they can join the clans as bondsmen!

I also agree with this: the agreements between the Houses when the Clans attacked was more of a "Hey - those guys over there are a bigger threat" not "I will TOTALLY help defend your planet....friend..."

No. No, no, no. Kurita, even with as many Kurita friends as I have over in that House, would not drop on a Steiner world. FedCom? Sure.

The problem there is what to do with the Southern Powers.

I don't have an answer for that one - it would be a really boring game if you were Marik or Liao (or you'd spend a lot of time invading Steiner/Davion). So not sure how to fix that.

[Kristen Redmond]

The only way to even simulate Clan Zellbrigen is to not allow clan pilots to R target a mech that is already R targeted by another clan pilot, and that would be a clusterf...

I am all for the IS just getting a 20 ton increase on their dropship to be honest. Nerfing this and that doesn't keep the players happy. either that, or give them a small tonnage increase and or the ability to bring a fifth mech

[Funkmaster Rick]

I think it is logistically impossible to implement any system which encourages players to play in the style of a clan mindset.

No matter which options are considered and taken, in the end any system which seeks to reward clanners for playing better and wasting fewer resources will only result in a massive wave of clan nerf and lots of hurt feelings. The way I picture it, things would go like this:

1. System is introduced to encourage play based in clan mindset.

2. Lots of people will use the system poorly, resulting in a rash of bad feelings and soggy diapers.

3. The really good pilots will embrace the system, bid low numbers, and win anyway because they were already really good pilots to start with, and the overall level of piloting skill that 'mechwarriors display in this game is abyssmal. So the dudes who were already winning will keep winning, and will look better doing it.

4. The vocal minority on the forums will look at the winrate of such players and scream bloody terror, claiming clan 'mechs are ridiculously OP. PGI will see the overwhelming ocean of hate and assume that this represents the average opinion of the entire playerbase.

5. Major clan nerfs until clan 'mechs are no longer viable in competitive CW play. Everyone switches to IS, only newbies and people who don't read the forums and therefore don't know about the nerf will stay with the clan. Clans will become a joke, fought against only to farm c-bills.
Of course, I assume there would be some kind of action in the meantime on PGI's part to fix the issue. But it will have done damage in the meantime.

ADDENDUM: As much as I enjoy the roleplay of a clan-style mindset when playing this game, it is not viable. While I have occasionally found enemy players who were happy to roleplay the batchall and get a good back-and-forth dialogue going, the vast majority (95% or more, in my experience) seem to take the declaration of a standard clan batchall as some sort of personal insult. They get angry, they throw insults, and if they gain any kind of advantage in the match they turn into absolutely smug sons of *******. I try to roleplay for the fun, but it turns a lot of the other people I play against into ********, so it's simply not worth it. Honestly, if I were to bid less than four 'mechs and then get beaten by a weakness I chose to take upon myself to make the game more fun, I fully expect it would be met with too much of the enemy team calling me a ****** for daring to make use of the system.

[HARDKOR]

I'd like a system where you could self handicap and earn more money. Leave a whole mech(tonnage prorated at 60 tons per mech) at home, get a 25% boost to cbills, per mech you don't bring.

[sycocys]

HARDKOR, on 05 March 2015 - 10:26 AM, said:

I'd like a system where you could self handicap and earn more money. Leave a whole mech(tonnage prorated at 60 tons per mech) at home, get a 25% boost to cbills, per mech you don't bring.

It'd make things quite interesting if allowed to be done on both sides, maybe with a 8 or 12 man pre-made requirement and possibly for faction/clan only to promote joining a house and staying a while.

All sorts of little things like this can add up into a much more interesting mode that offers something for pilots of all skill ranges and preferences for different mechs.

[Biclor Moban]

Funkmaster Rick, on 05 March 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

I think it is logistically impossible to implement any system which encourages players to play in the style of a clan mindset.

No matter which options are considered and taken, in the end any system which seeks to reward clanners for playing better and wasting fewer resources will only result in a massive wave of clan nerf and lots of hurt feelings. The way I picture it, things would go like this:

1. System is introduced to encourage play based in clan mindset.

2. Lots of people will use the system poorly, resulting in a rash of bad feelings and soggy diapers.

3. The really good pilots will embrace the system, bid low numbers, and win anyway because they were already really good pilots to start with, and the overall level of piloting skill that 'mechwarriors display in this game is abyssmal. So the dudes who were already winning will keep winning, and will look better doing it.

4. The vocal minority on the forums will look at the winrate of such players and scream bloody terror, claiming clan 'mechs are ridiculously OP. PGI will see the overwhelming ocean of hate and assume that this represents the average opinion of the entire playerbase.

5. Major clan nerfs until clan 'mechs are no longer viable in competitive CW play. Everyone switches to IS, only newbies and people who don't read the forums and therefore don't know about the nerf will stay with the clan. Clans will become a joke, fought against only to farm c-bills.
Of course, I assume there would be some kind of action in the meantime on PGI's part to fix the issue. But it will have done damage in the meantime.

ADDENDUM: As much as I enjoy the roleplay of a clan-style mindset when playing this game, it is not viable. While I have occasionally found enemy players who were happy to roleplay the batchall and get a good back-and-forth dialogue going, the vast majority (95% or more, in my experience) seem to take the declaration of a standard clan batchall as some sort of personal insult. They get angry, they throw insults, and if they gain any kind of advantage in the match they turn into absolutely smug sons of *******. I try to roleplay for the fun, but it turns a lot of the other people I play against into ********, so it's simply not worth it. Honestly, if I were to bid less than four 'mechs and then get beaten by a weakness I chose to take upon myself to make the game more fun, I fully expect it would be met with too much of the enemy team calling me a ****** for daring to make use of the system.

They players we want I think would be into this style. We would get players more invested in the system, more investment = more money spent. We would have more like minded players around and hence enjoy it more. PGI would need to promote this style of play though... would they do that?

[Biclor Moban]

Necromantion, on 02 March 2015 - 09:08 AM, said:

Why? Because this is an online multiplayer FPS game. Not a single player RPG with a pvp game mode.

This game is clearly not like the rest of the MWO games in any fashion, and lore is rarely going to be the answer to fix anything that is broken in light of that.

On that note IS mechs are not underpowered, there are many IS mechs that outperform Clan mechs in a pinch.

This isn't a FPS really not in the classic sense you have to be to deliberate in MWO.

[Yokaiko]

Apnu, on 02 March 2015 - 09:18 AM, said:

Since 95% of clan player would never consider clan honor codes, another way to motivate clan players must be found.

Here's my suggestion: Give clan players c-bill bonuses for dropping under-weight.

Clan tech is expensive so they could use the income boost.

Id take the honor code, now UN-nerf my tech.

[Ian Drsaurri]

I asked a clanner to state his batchall and he told me which mech he was piloting so in return I told him what mech I wasn piloting

[50 50]

It's an interesting idea.
Two parts to it as I see it.
1. The idea of introducing a duel into a match.
Given that the communications in game can easily be missed and players chase after kills, this would be difficult to handle.
Thinking of the design, it might become possible using a system to mark another player and declare a challenge and the provide an award to the victor if they did win in single combat.
At the same time it would need to deny any player that does assist in the combat any bonuses they might have received.
The marking of each mech needs to be clear to all players in the match.
It might work, but given the frantic competition in the matches it may simply be ignored in most cases.
Having the feature would be good though as any addition like this does build on the immersion.
I think it would be great in private matches as I am sure those players would be looking at these things.

2. Drop Decks.
For the general part of simulating Clan vs IS match ups a 10 vs 12 team size may be the way to go.
However, the idea for allowing players to take less mechs is an interesting one. I'm not sure the weight restriction would be necessary or have the same effect, ie if you only took a total of 180 tons but still had 4 mechs. I think it still gives a player that sense of having extra lives to squander and not place a value on the mechs or their skill.
But if a player elected to take less mechs, ie less than 4 into a conflict, this might create an interesting dynamic and would be interesting to explore a bit more.
As an incentive it would be fairly easy to implement a personal bonus to the pilot for taking less as well as a team bonus based on the overall difference.
eg. You only take 3 mechs on your drop deck. If you win, you get a personal bonus.
The team, for having less mechs on their side gets something similar based on the overall numbers as a win bonus and maybe a salvage bonus. A small percentage based on the difference might do the trick. This would need to translate to the personal bonus as if both sides only took 1 mech each, it's an even fight.
It is an interesting idea.

[Biclor Moban]

Bregor Edain, on 04 March 2015 - 11:48 PM, said:

Dropping under weight means dropping with sub optimal/abyssmal mechs. The gains in C-bills would be lower due to lower performance.

Nah. My mech that does the most damage per match is a Hunchback. I probably average over 500 damage and It's not uncommon for me to do 750-800 dmg. I probably average >300 in my Victor.