316 replies to this topic

[Shikata nai]

Mercules, on 05 March 2015 - 07:36 AM, said:

You don't ask the janitors in a building to do the work of the accountants or IT Support to handle HR complaints. You can't shuffle manpower like you think because you tend to, especially in smaller shops, hire people for a specific talent they have. You don't hire a networking expert to do art assets in case you have a networking issue a year down the road you want to shuffle him off to, you hire a CG expert to do the art assets and he likely has no clue why HSR is broken and would just muck things up worse if he tried to mess with the code.


You also don't fire your CG expert to hire a new network expert. Instead you let the art guy work on new 3D models and the network guy track down what the issue is the network.

Of course.
Then i suppose they hired about 10+++ people working on new mech designs and a mother on half time basis for getting bugs and gameplay issues fixed and suddenly we are on the milking train again.

[Kristov Kerensky]

PhoenixFire55, on 05 March 2015 - 03:29 AM, said:

LOL. They are working on it since day 1. So far no improvements. And what you expect them to say anyway? They are gonna say they are working on it even if they aren't. Like with collisions. 2 years ago they claimed that collisions are definitely coming back, a year ago it became maybe coming back, now they say they aren't coming back. See a tendency here?

And your ignorance of the reality shows through, you do NOT know how netcode works, nor do you know how much work has gone into the system already, but you pitch a fit because it doesn't work 100% of them time, or going by your posts, ever.

CryTek uses client based networking, PGI has had to refactor that to be serverside. It's rather complicated and difficult work and I really can't think of a good comparison to other things to show how much of a PITA it is. I've done lots of code work myself and it's not a task I would even want to mess with because I've done it before, it's extremely aggravating and consumes a LOT of time and man hours. Matthew and his crew are doing a great job so far, but they've got a long way to go still. And they don't do the Mechs, maps or goodies to purchase, they do the netcode.

The game is currently leaps and bounds ahead of where it was in closed beta, that's a fact. Disconnects have and will always be a problem, but there's only so much PGI can do about that, because disconnects are NOT always due to the game. Russian players have connection issues to a server in Montreal, Canada, and you think the ONLY reason you have disconnects is the game? Seriously? Talk about a total disconnect with reality there.

And collisions will be put back in the game, Russ was very clear on that in the last townhall. No time for them but they will be put back in once the netcode and physics can handle them properly.

Alpha Zulu, MW:LL wasn't serverside code, it was the original CryTek clientside code, so yeah, it worked mostly ok and was wide open to the hacks for the CryTek engine. You know why there wasn't a working Mechlab in MW:LL? That was NOT a feature, it was because they couldn't get a Mechlab to work, even though they had direct support from CryTek, they just couldn't make it work. Guess you never saw the vids they put out where they demonstrated how IF they could get it working, you'd see actual geometry changes on your Mech as different weapons were placed in different areas? It was something they spent years working on and never got it to work. They were THAT close...many times...

[Mercules]

Lachesis Muta, on 05 March 2015 - 07:39 AM, said:

Of course.
Then i suppose they hired about 10+++ people working on new mech designs and a mother on half time basis for getting bugs and gameplay issues fixed and suddenly we are on the milking train again.

They probably have 2-3 in each area... however tracking down why hit reg WAS good for a while there and now is bad again after multiple patches that have added how many lines of code.... is a lot harder then "I can't get this arm to look like the concept art. It doesn't fit in 3D." Now if that same team does the hitboxes we can ask them to kindly look at the Stormcrow again.

[Shikata nai]

Mercules, on 05 March 2015 - 07:47 AM, said:

They probably have 2-3 in each area... however tracking down why hit reg WAS good for a while there and now is bad again after multiple patches that have added how many lines of code.... is a lot harder then "I can't get this arm to look like the concept art. It doesn't fit in 3D." Now if that same team does the hitboxes we can ask them to kindly look at the Stormcrow again.

I'm talking about even more severe bugs like the lobby screwing around and nowadays some laggissues. Should not take nearly a year to figure out why people frequently drop out of lobbys when they start the game (or nowadays even during the game in a random fashion) should it?
Not even saying that it is equally time consuming but it needs to be adressed and if you need nearly a year for such a basic thing your ressources are not devided reasonable in the first place.

Edited by Lachesis Muta, 05 March 2015 - 07:52 AM.

[H I A S]

Alpha Zulu Tango, on 05 March 2015 - 07:31 AM, said:

As a looong time games consumer, BT player I'm not satisfied what MWO has achieved. I'm particularly not satisfied because there was not long time ago a free product that did things better and was going to evolve to even greater heights if it weren't stopped dead.

MWLL used cryengine too, but here is a list of features that it had that we don't have in MWO. Bear in mind it was made by people who used their free time in it and profited nothing.

-working hit reg: you hit it and you connect it. With any weapon type and it had more than MWO has.

-working collisions: no warping, no hit reg world war 3 when two lights touch. You could take a jj mech and land on top of that evil enemy Fafnir just as it would be a piece of terrain and no warping, sliding, freeze or whatnot would occur. He'd just be very pissed.

-working masc: Solitaire clocks 216 with masc. Not too shabby. Oh, the game has ASFs and stuff, they fly, like in the air and they clock up to 375kph. And yes, you can shoot and connect on 'em. I placed this to the test when playing in an Australian server sporting ~350ping and shot down an hostile corsair making passes with the joy of seeing all my shots that hit do their work.

-maps: broad selection on maps other than death traps by design. Wide maps with "realistic" terrain. I mean open rolling hills greens, deserts and stuff other than 1x1km pits.

-no mechlab: seriously this ruins MWO. Never give the people that much power. For arena gamemode sure, but for everything, no.

-combined arms warfare: I mentioned ASF. There was battle armours, AFVs, tanks and inmap resupply AND player driven supply APCs.

I switched to MWO because I had to, not because this was a better game. Content in MWO has evolved little from what it was. Just new mechs and more bugs and more ways to stomp the clueless. That is not what we should pay for as a casual or comp player. MWO is doing something what I call sugar coating. Looking good doesn't mean it is good. Same goes for many posters in this forum. Your lack of skill drives you to post what ever is the hurt of the day. Nerf this, ban that, op there. The blame is in the mirror. No matter how good you try to make yourselves look or save "ego", the fact remains you fail.

This is where we come back to OP. While his intro may be too much for some most seemingly, it must be noted that some do not, like me, have English as our primary language and thus our output may give the wrong impression. Derailing the valid point made by OP and belittling the comp crowd has little to fix the issue. Though as is posting to the forums in general, but here you go.

+1

We love MW and we love the Competition.
In a Random match it dosnt matter if Hitreg Bad or someone have a DC, just go ahead and push launch with the next Mech.
In Leaguedrops one Alpha can make the different between Win or Lose.
I will Hit when my Aim not suck.

And yes, most Maps a realy bad...

Edited by HiasRGB, 05 March 2015 - 08:00 AM.

[Alpha Zulu Tango]

Kristov Kerensky, on 05 March 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

*

About engines, yes that is true. But as a consumer those things are not my concern. It is just a fault in the product until it is working as intended to work, unless what we have is it and then it turns in to something else.

As for the mechlab. I understood that they tried to get it working and in the end considered it not worth it as it would make achieving gameplay balance a hard task.

All in all after praising it, I'm not saying MWLL was perfect. I totally despised Heavy gaus Shiva endgame and mechs unable to engage ASFs properly. But if let to continue production, who knows what it would be now.

[Dock Steward]

HiasRGB, on 05 March 2015 - 07:58 AM, said:

+1

We love MW and we love the Competition.
In a Random match it dosnt matter if Hitreg Bad or someone have a DC, just go ahead and push lounch with the next Mech.
In Leaguedrops one Alpha can make the different between Win or Lose.
I will Hit when my Aim not suck.

And yes, most Maps a real bad...

It matters to the players in that random match and, sorry, they have just as much at stake as you do, which is to say, nothing is at stake beyond enjoyment.

[Bishop Steiner]

HiasRGB, on 05 March 2015 - 07:58 AM, said:

+1

We love MW and we love the Competition.
In a Random match it dosnt matter if Hitreg Bad or someone have a DC, just go ahead and push lounch with the next Mech.
In Leaguedrops one Alpha can make the different between Win or Lose.
I will Hit when my Aim not suck.

And yes, most Maps a real bad...

unless you are making money on it? REality is whether you win or lose is no more important than if you are playing as a random puggie. Just because you think your league is meaningful doesn't mean it actually is any more meaningful than any other match for any other player.

[Sjorpha]

I agree, take all those 3D artists, map designers, game testers, production managers, the UI designer, the concept artist, the marketing department, Paul and his dog, stop them from doing whatever useless work they are currently doing and move them over to help programming the netcode, I'm sure their combined efforts will fix hitreg in no time at all.

[poopenshire]

Yes there has been some issues I think lately with some hit reg events. Yes, as well I think the warping around the battles has picked up. I have no stats to support and its only through observation from me end that something is up.

Do I feel multiple weapon systems seem to not be registering fully? Yes. Right now from observation I think SRMs and Lasers seem to be the ones at least visually that are popping out to me. Ballistics and LRMs do not seem too bad.

It does not appear to be only with lights, I have seen it on all size mechs. It did seem worse during the weekend events and during prime time hours, which leads me to think its probably just net traffic or something like that.

that's just my observation.

[PhoenixFire55]

Dock Steward, on 05 March 2015 - 07:35 AM, said:

Look, I can't argue against your overly dramatic hyperbole. Hit-reg isn't great, sure, but it's not non-existent. It isn't even so bad as to make "most" of my shots miss. I'd like it to be better but I'm confident it will be, mostly because it has been better.

For you, maybe not. HALF my PPC shots go through targets. All my laser shots do about 10% of the supposed damage even vs stationary targets. SRMs sometimes just do nothing even tho they show red cursor when hitting a barn-like mechs like Awesome in the chest. Worst thing is that its inconsistant, so you can't adjust to it, its just always a roll of dice.

Dock Steward, on 05 March 2015 - 07:35 AM, said:

How can you dismiss the importance of features like CW and new mechs? CW has been demanded by the players for a long time. Finally implementing it was a good thing. You also got those private lobbies you needed to have playable leagues. Remember trying to synch drop those comp games? Were private lobbies a waste of resources? New mechs make money. Money is necessary to pay staff. Staff is necessary to do work. Work is necessary to make the game better. This is business 101, please don't make me explain it to you...

But what is the point of playing in CW if the outcome of battle depends on not who is a better player / team, but who happens to have better hit reg? So, they get the money and do what with it? Produce new content to get more money instead of fixing the game? Its not just some small bugs we are talking about, its THE MOST important element of the game that is broken. If this is business, then its scam-like business.

[Shikata nai]

Sjorpha, on 05 March 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

I agree, take all those 3D artists, map designers, game testers, production managers, the UI designer, the concept artist, the marketing department, Paul and his dog, stop them from doing whatever useless work they are currently doing and move them over to help programming the netcode, I'm sure their combined efforts will fix hitreg in no time at all.

Again:
Then it is just a management flaw if you are hiring quadrillions of designers and one or two halftime programmers for the important stuff.

Edited by Lachesis Muta, 05 March 2015 - 08:09 AM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Lachesis Muta, on 05 March 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

I'm talking about even more severe bugs like the lobby screwing around and nowadays some laggissues. Should not take nearly a year to figure out why people frequently drop out of lobbys when they start the game (or nowadays even during the game in a random fashion) should it?
Not even saying that it is equally time consuming but it needs to be adressed and if you need nearly a year for such a basic thing your ressources are not devided reasonable in the first place.

You DO realize that people disconnecting isn't always a game related problem, right? I have never dropped out of a lobby, and I rarely drop out of a game. I've seen others do it, some people it's literally 9 out of 10 times they will disconnect, but see, there's the thing, it's JUST certain people who have this happen, it's not playerbase wide. Those people have something going wrong somewhere besides the game, and PGI can't fix that, it's not THEIR software causing the problem. Third party software being used in conjunction with the game will have that effect, especially on a serverside game, might want to turn off stuff and see if it helps, I know a few people that that was all it took, they stopped streaming music and lo an behold, NO MORE DISCONNECTS!

And you have no clue at all about how PGI does things do you Lachesis? Part time programmers? Matthew and his crew work full time and have for years now trying to get the networking to function as desired, it's not a part time gig. But hey, you know better right, since you have NO experience at all in this industry, you know what's right and PGI should listen to you about how to run things.

And here I thought it was an American thing to be entitled, go figure, it's worldwide with kids today...sad isn't it? Used to worry about the future of Mankind, not anymore!

[Dock Steward]

PhoenixFire55, on 05 March 2015 - 08:07 AM, said:

For you, maybe not. HALF my PPC shots go through targets. All my laser shots do about 10% of the supposed damage even vs stationary targets. SRMs sometimes just do nothing even tho they show red cursor when hitting a barn-like mechs like Awesome in the chest. Worst thing is that its inconsistant, so you can't adjust to it, its just always a roll of dice.



But what is the point of playing in CW if the outcome of battle depends on not who is a better player / team, but who happens to have better hit reg? So, they get the money and do what with it? Produce new content to get more money instead of fixing the game? Its not just some small bugs we are talking about, its THE MOST important element of the game that is broken. If this is business, then its scam-like business.

Okay, so we are just going to go with the anecdotes then?

I played Tuesday night for two hours and all my shots registered...

Lachesis Muta, on 05 March 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

Again:
Then it is just a management flaw if you are hiring quadrillions of designers and one or two halftime programmers for the important stuff.

Speculation. If you have questions about how they are staffed, ask PGI.

Edited by Dock Steward, 05 March 2015 - 08:21 AM.

[Shikata nai]

Kristov Kerensky, on 05 March 2015 - 08:19 AM, said:

You DO realize that people disconnecting isn't always a game related problem, right? I have never dropped out of a lobby, and I rarely drop out of a game. I've seen others do it, some people it's literally 9 out of 10 times they will disconnect, but see, there's the thing, it's JUST certain people who have this happen, it's not playerbase wide. Those people have something going wrong somewhere besides the game, and PGI can't fix that, it's not THEIR software causing the problem. Third party software being used in conjunction with the game will have that effect, especially on a serverside game, might want to turn off stuff and see if it helps, I know a few people that that was all it took, they stopped streaming music and lo an behold, NO MORE DISCONNECTS!

And you have no clue at all about how PGI does things do you Lachesis? Part time programmers? Matthew and his crew work full time and have for years now trying to get the networking to function as desired, it's not a part time gig. But hey, you know better right, since you have NO experience at all in this industry, you know what's right and PGI should listen to you about how to run things.

And here I thought it was an American thing to be entitled, go figure, it's worldwide with kids today...sad isn't it? Used to worry about the future of Mankind, not anymore!

Yeah... sounds reasonable that in 7 out of 8 games overall 8 completely different players out of different regions and countries disconnect must be a person related problem. Oh wait - no it is not!

Yes i am not in this industry but i know that if they are working so hard with so much man power on it like you suggest the product should not have those major flaws it does. Again compare to other companies in the sector you will see the difference.

If you don't get it its anyway useless to argue with you. Please go clean your white-knight armor.

@Dock Steward
Yeah speculation but it is just easy to see the evidence. They don't get **** done but throw around mechpackages all day long. Either a flaw in the management, bad programmers or intended equals milking the customers by lowquality crap.
And again we are at the trasnparance point. PGI does not talk to people, especially if they are pointing towards the major flaws in this game.

Edited by Lachesis Muta, 05 March 2015 - 08:29 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Kristov Kerensky, on 05 March 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

And your ignorance of the reality shows through, you do NOT know how netcode works, nor do you know how much work has gone into the system already, but you pitch a fit because it doesn't work 100% of them time, or going by your posts, ever.

Your ignorance clearly shows through right here, beacuse YOU do NOT know anything about me including any knowledge I might have about netcode.

Kristov Kerensky, on 05 March 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

CryTek uses client based networking, PGI has had to refactor that to be serverside. It's rather complicated and difficult work and I really can't think of a good comparison to other things to show how much of a PITA it is. I've done lots of code work myself and it's not a task I would even want to mess with because I've done it before, it's extremely aggravating and consumes a LOT of time and man hours. Matthew and his crew are doing a great job so far, but they've got a long way to go still. And they don't do the Mechs, maps or goodies to purchase, they do the netcode.

They are getting money to do their job. How long will your employer tolerate you if instead of doing your job and delivering results you'll be telling him that its "rather complicated and difficult"? Thats right ... you'll be fired and somebody else who can get the job done will work in your place instead.

Kristov Kerensky, on 05 March 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

The game is currently leaps and bounds ahead of where it was in closed beta, that's a fact.

Yes, but not necesserily "ahead" as in better.

Kristov Kerensky, on 05 March 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

Disconnects have and will always be a problem, but there's only so much PGI can do about that, because disconnects are NOT always due to the game. Russian players have connection issues to a server in Montreal, Canada, and you think the ONLY reason you have disconnects is the game? Seriously? Talk about a total disconnect with reality there.

Never disconnect from ANY other online game. Perfectly stable ping. But of course, its not their game, it never is.

Kristov Kerensky, on 05 March 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

And collisions will be put back in the game, Russ was very clear on that in the last townhall. No time for them but they will be put back in once the netcode and physics can handle them properly.

I'm hearing this exact same phrase, with exact same wording for 2.5 years. Ever since they removed them.

[RG Notch]

Lachesis Muta, on 05 March 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

Again:
Then it is just a management flaw if you are hiring quadrillions of designers and one or two halftime programmers for the important stuff.

But but they need to hire all the artists to make the money to pay the artists. I mean are these network engineers making anything they can sell for real money? This is business, just poorly run business that happens to have a popular IP held hostage and is making money off of the Stockholmed whales. I mean if you people would just spend enough money they could actually spend resources on fixing HSR. It's pretty much they player's fault for not spending enough money for PGI to hire people who don't help keep the servers running.

[H I A S]

Dock Steward, on 05 March 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

It matters to the players in that random match and, sorry, they have just as much at stake as you do, which is to say, nothing is at stake beyond enjoyment.

Hu, i play random too and when the Hitreg is bad for me, or i have a DC, i only lost some C-Bills and XP/GXP. Dosnt matter.

[PhoenixFire55]

Dock Steward, on 05 March 2015 - 08:20 AM, said:

Okay, so we are just going to go with the anecdotes then?

I played Tuesday night for two hours and all my shots registered...

Good for you. Maybe it has something to do with you being 200 miles away from the server or just being lucky. Doesn't mean everybody else have it the same.

[Dock Steward]

Lachesis Muta, on 05 March 2015 - 08:29 AM, said:

@Dock Steward
Yeah speculation but it is just easy to see the evidence. They don't get **** done but throw around mechpackages all day long. Either a flaw in the management, bad programmers or intended equals milking the customers by lowquality crap.
And again we are at the trasnparance point. PGI does not talk to people, especially if they are pointing towards the major flaws in this game.

Sure, but even the evidence is a bit subjective. I know everyone is having a different experience and that's part of the problem, but I can't get worked up and support PGI bashing because, personally, I'm having a very good experience. I never use to crash, now I crash in the first game I play every night, but only that one game. Not a deal breaker for me. Sometimes shots don't register properly for me, but, by and large, my shots do register properly. If the game itself were so problematic and all the issues were strictly on PGI's end, then why do I have such good experiences?

Again, I don't have any issue whatsoever with people voicing their concerns (not that anyone needs my permission, obviously), but I don't think it ever needs to be taken to the level the OP and others take it. Nor do I think doomsayers have a very compelling argument.

At the end of the day, there's going to be people who are generally happy with this game and people who aren't, and there's going to be tension between those two groups.

HiasRGB, on 05 March 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

Hu, i play random too and when the Hitreg is bad for me, or i have a DC, i only lost some C-Bills and XP/GXP. Dosnt matter.

Thanks for agreeing with me.