132 replies to this topic

[Jman5]

Does it make sense to you that a 20 ton locust should be detected at the same range as a 100 ton direwolf? Do you think it is easier or harder to play the role of a scout if you can be detected at the same range as most other mechs on the battlefield?

I think tonnage should play into radar detection range to give smaller mechs the ability to get in closer without lighting up on everyone's radar. Here is an example



Thoughts?

Edit: To clear up a little confusion, these are values for initial targeting only. Currently it's set at 800 meters for everything. Transmitting targeting data to all your teammates regardless of how far away they are still works the same as before. This is designed to let you get a little closer before that initial targeting of an untargeted mech can happen.

Edited by Jman5, 02 March 2015 - 03:32 PM.

[FupDup]

Old idea but gold. Exact numbers might get tweaked here or there, maybe have it go down by -15 meters per 5 tons instead of -10 like that chart shows? I dunno.


I'd also give some mechs specific quirks in regards to senors...like a Raven 3L should be stealthier than a Jenner even before we count ECM. We need different quirk types than just rapid-fire low-heat laserdakka vomit!

Edited by FupDup, 02 March 2015 - 01:42 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Jman5, on 02 March 2015 - 01:34 PM, said:

Does it make sense to you that a 20 ton locust should be detected at the same range as a 100 ton direwolf? Do you think it is easier or harder to play the role of a scout if you can be detected at the same range as most other mechs on the battlefield?

I think tonnage should play into radar detection range to give smaller mechs the ability to get in closer without lighting up on everyone's radar. Here is an example



Thoughts?

It's not solely radar we're talking about though. It's radar/EM/magnetic anomaly that is being picked up by sensors.

So, ultimately the "size" of the 'mech, as reflected by weight, is only a portion of what's being sensed.

I disagree that this is necessary.

[Kin3ticX]

I hadn't seen this suggested quite like this. Last time someone suggested lights have like 1000 base sensor rng and it scaled down, Sean Lang or someone said it would take a big system change.

[Bhael Fire]

Also, I'd like to see sensor-related quirks on each mech that make some mechs better at detecting mechs and some that are harder to detect.

[FupDup]

Bhael Fire, on 02 March 2015 - 01:43 PM, said:

Also, I'd like to see sensor-related quirks on each mech that make some mechs better at detecting mechs and some that are harder to detect.

Multi-trac quirk!

Acquire ALL the red doritos!

[Jman5]

FupDup, on 02 March 2015 - 01:39 PM, said:

Old idea but gold. Exact numbers might get tweaked here or there, maybe have it go down by -15 meters per 5 tons instead of -10 like that chart shows? I dunno.

Yeah 10 meters was me being conservative. If you're curious what 15 meters per 5 tons would look like I drew it up real quick.

[mogs01gt]

Why exactly? Radar is radar, the size of the "blip" is all that really matters. Is this an attempt at making non ECM lights used more?

[kapusta11]

Further nerf to LRMs? No thanks, they are already bad.

[FupDup]

Jman5, on 02 March 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

Yeah 10 meters was me being conservative. If you're curious what 15 meters per 5 tons would look like I drew it up real quick.

I definitely wouldn't push it down any further than -15 per interval because it's already getting pretty short.

I imagine that quirks could/should be used for individual cases of when we want a mech to be stealthier or less stealthy than the baseline in the chart.

Edited by FupDup, 02 March 2015 - 01:51 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

FupDup, on 02 March 2015 - 01:49 PM, said:

I definitely wouldn't push it down any further than -15 per interval because it's already getting pretty short. I imagine that quirks could/should be used for individual cases of when we want a mech to be stealthier or less stealthy than the baseline in the chart.

I disagree that there is any "stealth" involved with 'mechs.

You're talking about theoretical machines powered by FUSION engines, that constantly emit electronic chatter to team mates (how do you think your teammate's locations and conditions are ALWAYS showing up on your HUD?), emitting EM "noise" from charging of weapons, active targeting, and the like, and are DAMNED noisy, oh and let's not forget huge sources of IR radiation, especially when actively firing/engaged with an enemy!!!

Crimany, 1k meters is TOO SHORT logically...

Edited by Dimento Graven, 02 March 2015 - 01:53 PM.

[FupDup]

Dimento Graven, on 02 March 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

I disagree that there is any "stealth" involved with 'mechs.

You're talking about theoretical machines powered by FUSION engines, that constantly emit electronic chatter to team mates (how do you think your teammate's locations and conditions are ALWAYS showing up on your HUD?), emitting EM "noise" from charging of weapons, active targeting, and the like, and are DAMNED noisy, oh and let's not forget huge sources of IR radiation, especially when actively firing/engaged with an enemy!!!

Crimany, 1k meters is TOO SHORT logically...

I don't think this thread's proposal was intended to be based on realism, because otherwise we'd have to remove giant stompy robots entirely.

[FerrolupisXIII]

Dimento Graven, on 02 March 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

Crimany, 1k meters is TOO SHORT logically...

do we want to talk about the range of weapons? i thought not.

[Simbacca]

FupDup, on 02 March 2015 - 01:39 PM, said:

Old idea but gold. Exact numbers might get tweaked here or there, maybe have it go down by -15 meters per 5 tons instead of -10 like that chart shows? I dunno.


I'd also give some mechs specific quirks in regards to senors...like a Raven 3L should be stealthier than a Jenner even before we count ECM. We need different quirk types than just rapid-fire low-heat laserdakka vomit!

Though at the same token, the Raven-3L's sensors would not be affected by the size chart or not nearly as much due to its electronic warfare suite.

And yes, I want the Raven-3M added to the game even though it would have the same hardpoints sans the ECM as the Raven-3L.

Edited by Simbacca, 02 March 2015 - 01:56 PM.

[KraftySOT]

Jman5, on 02 March 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

Yeah 10 meters was me being conservative. If you're curious what 15 meters per 5 tons would look like I drew it up real quick.

This^.

With new modules that affect it, and quirks for scout mechs.

[Dimento Graven]

FupDup, on 02 March 2015 - 01:54 PM, said:

I don't think this thread's proposal was intended to be based on realism, because otherwise we'd have to remove giant stompy robots entirely.

Well I don't see any additive value to a scaled 'sensing structure' for 'mech warrior.

To put it as mildly as I can: I do not think it's a good idea.

[C E Dwyer]

tonnage makes no difference to radar range, the electronic and the power behind it do, as all mechs are powered by fusion engines, radar will be pretty similar even by different designers

[FupDup]

Dimento Graven, on 02 March 2015 - 01:56 PM, said:

Well I don't see any additive value to a scaled 'sensing structure' for 'mech warrior.

To put it as mildly as I can: I do not think it's a good idea.

It seems to be a role warfare/scouting thing, to help little gundams be that much better at gathering/hiding information than bigger gundams (because the bigs have other advantages in exchange).

[KraftySOT]

Cathy, on 02 March 2015 - 01:56 PM, said:

tonnage makes no difference to radar range, the electronic and the power behind it do, as all mechs are powered by fusion engines, radar will be pretty similar even by different designers

Nope. Sensor range is based on the sensor suite in the head. Theres a crit for it.

It varies wildly between role, size, complexity, age, and manufacturer.

Even load up a full doubleblind game in Megamek, and check it out. Different mechs have different sensor ranges and types.

Not everything has Magscan for instance.

Edited by KraftySOT, 02 March 2015 - 01:59 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

FerrolupisXIII, on 02 March 2015 - 01:55 PM, said:

do we want to talk about the range of weapons? i thought not.

If your point is that weapon ranges are out of whack vs. logic, yeah, but at least with weapon ranges we're talking about base values based on the TT game lore.

This, I can't recall seeing anything like this in the rule sets (though admittedly I am not as versed in the later versions as I am with the originals).