26 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

I am quite disappointed, like in A LOT

half thew quirks make no sense at all.

but now lets start form the beginning:

first the table:

Quote

- Cells with no background were not changed.
- Cells that are cyan had their quirk value reduced or removed:

hmm so what happened to the general 10% heat quirk? they are neither removed nor changed?




Lets do it abit different and go through the components:


Set Boni quirks:

Basically I have no idea who decided them on which base chassis to exist.

NVA Prime: Overhat damage? SERIOUSLY? this is a NOOB quirk and most useless for any pilot that has some skills about heat management.

Or form my point of view: The entire Prime variants are pointless combination now. This is not remotely close any kind of motivation to run a NVA prime as a set of 8.

FAIL of how to quirk a clanmech at all for trying to stick with set boni. Or was this just to help the "Trials" but then those 5% are a joke should a newbie overheat, because the value is so small it will make cherry red into dark orange.

CT + leg quirks:

Are all vey similar, the acceleration/decelleration quirks are good, thats something the chassis needs.


But:

NVA-S?
Ams quirks? wow, whos using AMS on the tonnage tight Nova? pointless CT quirk, will in my mechlab just make the S-base a dead mech.

Prime:
Stupid Overheat damage AGAIN?
wow, ok legs have some more HP than the other variants.

NVA-B:
Great more mobility quirks.

NVA-A:
Hmm yes turn speed, reverse speed, so mobility hard to judge the difference to the B quirked one, need sot be tested but is very appealign as well for hill and corner popping.

the rest, is just okish

so to gather this:

since legs can not be changed the entire real relevant quirks:

Prime:
+8 CT structure
+16 leg structure each
10%acc/dec

NVA-B
+8 ST structire
+12 leg structure
20% acc/decc

NVA-A
+8 ST structire
+12 leg structure
10%acc/decc
10% reverse speed

NVA-S
+8 ST structire
+12 leg structure
10%acc/decc
5%turn speed

This makes the releveant choices quite small: A and B variants seem to be really nice they differ a bit, and need to be tested whats better. NVA-S is inferior, has more Turn rate than A and B, yet AMS quirks? edgly pointless for some decent pilots. Prime is totally pointless in comparison. Wow, for owners of an (I) variant this is really disappointing.

And why did legs even got structure? My Novas runs with 40/48 amror and nearly never gets legged. those sturcture points would have been needed on the ST's.

OMG PLEASE PGI stop making CT quirks different for mechs where CT's DO NOT DIFFER IN HARDPOINTS This makes no sense except creating dead chassis, and the setboni are so lousy the only mech makign sense would be a NVA-A, but then with 2 E in usage on the arms, his is ot really somehting people want to go for.

and you basically killed the entire idea of an omnimech, because now I can not freely swap pods without ceating something that is inferior on the table of what matters in MWO.



Arms quirks:


Prime
They do have impact on the current SPL build, because its basically nerfed by not having the general 10% heat quirk anymore. yet the ER builds are favoured by quriks over the PL builds, but the ER builds with E arms were not quriked ar all.

The 3E arms

hmm, they arebetter suited for pulselasers, yet the difference to the E arms is there, and they have structure and armor buff, meaning internals are not open as fats as on the prime arms.
slight difference, yet an appealing one for Pulsebuilds, unless its the SPL build which will lack some hardpoints..

the 1 E arm:
well not sure, its okish to make them being a choice over the other arms when using a PPC, but then, who is crazy and would use PPC's in the arms? You would then use the E Torsi wth these arms. but in comparison with a 2 PPC Stormcrow, just pitiful. they really could have given 5% PPC heat quirks here, because I doubt this build is going to help CERPPC Novas to appear on the field. But wats this, the one arm with Pulse laser quirk has 28 instead 24 hp buff, yet it seems to be a pulse quirked one.

the 1 B arms:

they seem to be great, still a bit problematic, because UAC's in decent size on a Nova have urgent ammo problems together with somewhat non pitiful backup lasers. So this does not help to compete a Nova to be chosen over a SCR when it comes to Ballistic loadouts, nor does it make B loadouts generally appealing. Because the lakc of tonnge for ammo is still present. Mostly caused by too many fixed heatsinks a B loadout Nova doesn't needs.

Except form the amount of arm HP chosen most do make sense at least and create intentions why one should be chosen to another depending on the laodout.

Torsi quirks:

prime:
not much to say, not really appealing, nor interesting, yet not "bad"

NVA-B:
the machine gun quriks seem okish, nothign to celebrate, nothing to cry about.
Engergy coolsown gets interesting wiht combination of other pods.

WAIT? the NVA-B- 2B ST has not yaw amount quirk as the thr 2 B ST's? why is that? forgotten copy and paste?

NVA-A:
ams quirks, ahh pointless quirks everywhere. I seriously would prefer the Machine gun ST'S then sololy for the yaw amount. quirks. No Energy quirks on the AMS/E torsi? why?

NVA-S:
standard and decent MG quirks.


general thoughts:
HP quiks are weird, on arms they differ between 16 and 28. yet those are the low hardpointed quirked arms. Hmm a bit pointless because my LP's or PPC's tha are supposed to bbe sued with them would NOT go to the arms at all. they are far better placed in ST's

CT HP buff is a bit low, drgaon got so much more, and ST quirks are 8? also pitiful. baiscally CT is a running weakness still and ST's too (those 8 is superlousy, and shamefull to be called a quirk at all. All the overqirked HP on arms are mostly pointless since people will still easily blow off ST's and CT's as before. And leg hp? why and why so many? was NEVER NEEDED but the prime got +16! leg HP? why just why.

All in all:
the wepaons quriks a well choosen
some agility quriks are good, but the CT+leg combination is only ceating some dead chassis.
the HP quirks are horribly distributed and way too low on ST's and CT's



personally I am really disappointed,
the Prime and S base Novas are so inferior, I would not know why one would pilot them at all.
rms got overquirked with HP partially, while the true weakspots (CT + ST) stays, so Novas still pop as easily as before.

74HP arms possibly, vs 80HP ST's On a mech where I freely can choose and easily hit the component I want to. Why should I shoot at arms to begin with?

Half of the quirks are pointless for skilled pilots, and the set boni are totally uneappealing. Especially since the few may-be apealign ones have some pod quriks that are so bad you would not choose them..

People will basically use the B and A chassis and outft the weapon pods thes need.
They will msotlikely choose PPC, or pulse quirks on arms, but put the LPL or PPC's in the torsi. Most torsi quriks are lousy either, because if you don't use ams or MG's, which PPC/LPL builds will not do, these pods have no point to exist in such a build.

So from the view of an experienced MWO palyer and Nova Pilot:

NVA Prime:

CT-legs: pointless
ST's: okish, but no reason to keep them
Arms: well choosen to be used with ER lasers over others, set also quriking mass Pulselasers (SPL's) to use primes without getting the pulse laser benefits.
Set boni: pointless

NVA-B All pods make sense depending on the laodout.

NVA-A, they make sense depending on the laodout, yet AMS quriks? they are pointles, meaning ST's on the entire A variant are pointless. better change them for B or prime variants if you don'T use the 1E torsi with any energyweapon.

NVA-S except from the CT which I think turn speed can not match the ACC/decc or reverse speed the A and B offers, and its pointless AMS quirks, nothing of the other pods seems wrong. they have laodout dependend usage.

My advice after quriks:

Take the B or A base chassis and test out which behavior is more suited, the reverse speed, or additional acc/decc. and put in the arms and Torsi fitting to the loadut. Ignore set boni, they are lousy and pintless.

[Sarlic]

Tired of these quirk threads farting everywere.

PGI does not read forums. Adress this issue in the one thread what's meant for it. In the Announcment page.

Mike replied over there and answered a few questions.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Maybe PGI is learning from the large sweeping changes they have been making and are finally learning to start small and work up? WHile the NVA-Primes quirks seem kinda insignificant, maybe wait and they will get improved?

[Sylvian Le Fabre]

One word:


Iterative

[Lily from animove]

LordKnightFandragon, on 07 April 2015 - 01:59 AM, said:

Maybe PGI is learning from the large sweeping changes they have been making and are finally learning to start small and work up? WHile the NVA-Primes quirks seem kinda insignificant, maybe wait and they will get improved?

its not about being improved or not its about the entire base idea behigd those quirks.

16 arm hp buffs and only 8 CT?
Overheat damage quirks?

This is a base design fail of choosing quirks and hardly has anything to do with waiting for improvements. and even if overhat damage reduction si 100% its still kinda pointless quirk because even with 14 CERMl overheating you will be down for ages by heat gettign trashed. this is a noob quirk to cater the beginners, yet they will not have help from this because they get trashed by the other sideffects of overheating. and prolly arm HP do not prevent your CT from popping unless your arms can cover the CT, which they can not on a Nova. And the leg HP buff, were a lto higher than CT structure buffs. But why? since when did NVA had leg HP issues?

So half of the quirks are laready horrible by the idea itself, it loosk more like soemone wanted to quirk them no matter what happens. Through many chassis, ams quirks. Wow ams quirks thats what those mechs really neeed. ADDER's with ams. Thats not a buff, thats giving a quirk for quirks sake, no matter if it makes sense or not.

[QuantumButler]

Leave it to Russ to make a new, overly complex system that doesn't adress the core problem with these mechs when a much simpler model for solutions already exists [just ape existing IS quirks using common sense, treat them as tier 2-4 IS robots for quirk values and give them substantial buffs were warranted, EG, give the Warhawk Prime the same ERPPC buffs the Awesome 9M has, ERPPCs are still too hot to make it unbalanced but it'd be able to use them somewhat]

Edited by QuantumButler, 07 April 2015 - 04:19 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

I see no problem here.

I think 99% of the Novas I see on the battlefield are usually carrying UAC5s, ERPPCs and/or ERLLs, so it only seems fitting that those weapons got a slight buff to give the Nova that tiny little bonus it needed to be equal to the Stormcrow.

What I'm worried about is whether they went too far with the 5% Machine gun range quirks. Remember, those can be stacked for a total of 10%. Did they learn nothing from the OP TDR-9S quirks?

[Pjwned]

Sarlic, on 07 April 2015 - 01:44 AM, said:

Tired of these quirk threads farting everywere.

PGI does not read forums. Adress this issue in the one thread what's meant for it. In the Announcment page.

Mike replied over there and answered a few questions.

Maybe PGI should actually use their Comstar Focus Group forum section again.

[Lily from animove]

Alistair Winter, on 07 April 2015 - 03:48 AM, said:

I see no problem here.

I think 99% of the Novas I see on the battlefield are usually carrying UAC5s, ERPPCs and/or ERLLs, so it only seems fitting that those weapons got a slight buff to give the Nova that tiny little bonus it needed to be equal to the Stormcrow.

What I'm worried about is whether they went too far with the 5% Machine gun range quirks. Remember, those can be stacked for a total of 10%. Did they learn nothing from the OP TDR-9S quirks?

troll/troll would read again.

Especially the part about MG's range xD

[Darwins Dog]

Yeah, the reduced overheat damage is about as useful as the fast startup pilot skill. I can understand the hesitation to avoid heat reduction, since the nova prime has the potential to become a true monster. At the same time, that's about the only thing that will make the nova (prime especially) a viable choice.

Side note: What is boni? Is that some new MWO slang that I've missed (still trying to figure out TrueDubs)?

[TibsVT]

Lily doesn't like your quirks PGI. Having an AMS bonus in an AMS pod doesn't make sense. Time to put another ERPPC quirk in it!

[Firelizard]

Darwins Dog, on 07 April 2015 - 04:15 AM, said:

Yeah, the reduced overheat damage is about as useful as the fast startup pilot skill. I can understand the hesitation to avoid heat reduction, since the nova prime has the potential to become a true monster. At the same time, that's about the only thing that will make the nova (prime especially) a viable choice.

Side note: What is boni? Is that some new MWO slang that I've missed (still trying to figure out TrueDubs)?

The Nova's alpha potential is what got us SLAS/MLAS on the same ghost heat count. So I'm sure that PGI is cautious to not repeat that issue again.

As for 'boni'. I think someone is trying to be creative with pluralizing 'bonus'. Even though the english dictionary already provides one: Bonuses.

Edited by Firelizard, 07 April 2015 - 04:30 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Darwins Dog, on 07 April 2015 - 04:15 AM, said:

Yeah, the reduced overheat damage is about as useful as the fast startup pilot skill. I can understand the hesitation to avoid heat reduction, since the nova prime has the potential to become a true monster. At the same time, that's about the only thing that will make the nova (prime especially) a viable choice.

Side note: What is boni? Is that some new MWO slang that I've missed (still trying to figure out TrueDubs)?

The problem is, I can slap the prime arms on every other Variant, and have the juicy real mattering quirks, wich basically makes the pirme variant a dead choice for skilled pilots and a deathrap for newbies because this quirk does't help them actually, since overheating consequences are far more serious than overheating damage.

Boni, isn't that plural of Bonus? or is that something else in english

KelesK, on 07 April 2015 - 04:26 AM, said:

Lily doesn't like your quirks PGI. Having an AMS bonus in an AMS pod doesn't make sense. Time to put another ERPPC quirk in it!

How many nova's except the trials run around with AMS? nearly none, AMS is a pointless feature on many mechs and buffing ams on the nova does not in the slightliest way help the mech to comepte with others across the field or the SCR. It's like gifting a man a car in the destern with empty tank.
An the arm HP quirks are like building a protective barrior at the eastside of your house when you know the enemy will come from the east.
The majority of those quirks were quirks because of having to quirk something but they were not quirking what the chassis needed. Not within itself, and not in comparison to other chassis. instead this created amongts the Novas even more dead chassis. Or was that the point of quirkening? I may mised that one then.

Edited by Lily from animove, 07 April 2015 - 04:33 AM.

[TibsVT]

Well we can always go back to not having any at all while PGI gives the IS quirks. Perhaps that would help fix your problem. No quirks, no complaints, right?

[Firelizard]

I think they are trying not to create the impression of overpowered chassis from quirking, to a group of chassis that many already see as overpowered. (IE the Clans in general).

So they may be trying to stay gradual with it in this case, contrasted to the knee-jerk massive quirking that a lot of IS chassis received.

[Andi Nagasia]

i agree that some of the Novas Quirks need to be increased,
but remember this is just a starting point we will likely see Novas get passed again,

Lily from animove, on 07 April 2015 - 01:39 AM, said:

since legs can not be changed the entire real relevant quirks:

um what? you do know you can change an omni's Legs right?
they just never had a point of changing them until now,
(im not Counting KFX legs as pointless as S have JJs)

[Alistair Winter]

I got a huge boni from reading this thread, tbh.

I think what everyone has to realize about quirks is that... the days are gone where one patch made a huge difference. People are saying stuff like "Wow, I can't wait untill PGI gives my favourite mech some new quirks. Finally it will get the quirks it deserves!"

No, it won't. At least not in one big swoop. Maybe the bad Clan mechs will one day be better, but it's going to happen over multiple patches over a period of months, maybe over a year. You'll get some quirks you like, and you'll get some quirks that most players can't make sense of, like... increased UAC projectile speed on a 50 ton mech with no FF, no Endo and 5 hardmounted jumpjets.

The best thing to do is just accept that while this is a great game and PGI devs do a lot of good work, game balance is not what they do best.

[Lily from animove]

KelesK, on 07 April 2015 - 04:38 AM, said:

Well we can always go back to not having any at all while PGI gives the IS quirks. Perhaps that would help fix your problem. No quirks, no complaints, right?

this would at leats make all my Novas equally pointless exept 2 pointless and 2 totally pointless.

quirking stuff does not imply its really getting better at all.

Old PPC Novas were better because 10% base heat quirk, which now is only 6%.
It's not like those quirks were overall buffs, some were even nerfs for specific loadous. So your logic is broken and inconsistent. The quirks were changed and many were infact hurting. I have pity with all the (freeby) pilots who bought 3 variants and sold all exept the primes, because the suddeny pseudo omnimech ability means the quirks now screwed those pilots with having chosen the wrong one to keep.

Edited by Lily from animove, 07 April 2015 - 04:48 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

i say as a Nova Pilot it needs -90% heat on everything!

Jokes aside the structure and armor buffs will help the nova allot,
we can also assume that Set Bonuses will increase and become more meaning full,

[TibsVT]

Lily from animove, on 07 April 2015 - 04:44 AM, said:

So your logic is broken and inconsistent.

How is my "logic" broken by stating that removing them completely would fix your problem. The Chassis would be useless, as stated by you, and you would have no reason to use it, less to complain about it.

There was no logic in the statement it was plain common sense.