49 replies to this topic

[Calon Farstar]

This is addressed to anyone who thinks they are doing well at leading CW drops.

Aces Wild is looking for your input on what what works and what should be avoided. Davion units in particular so we can play some matches to see the tactics in action. We would also like to hear from any units we have current truces with.

We are looking host at least a monthly forum on our TS to go over tactics and overall CW strategy. As CW evolves so will we have to to stay competitive.

We would also like some input from units/drop commanders that have spent time on the clan borders. We would love to hear your thoughts on what works well against clan mechs.

You can either message me here, or pm me on enjin, where my name is the same.

Thanks, and looking forward to hearing from you all,

V/R

Calon Farstar

[JamesQ]

Is your TS server public? I could drop by and lend my knowledge.

[pwnface]

Clans are a completely different animal to tackle than Inner Sphere.

Here are a few hints:

Don't count on light rush attacks working all the time.
LRMs are bad.
Use direct fire weapons.
Aim good.

[Vlad Ward]

For defending against the Clans, high DPS direct fire mechs are best. 7MPL TDR-5SS, 2x AC/5 DRG-1N, 3x LPL TDR-9SE all work well. Never put an XL engine in a Thunderbolt. Aim for legs. Trying to shoot torsos out of mechs with Clan XLs is a waste of time and a Clan team dedicated to hitting Omega will literally walk right past you laughing as your bullets ping off their sides. Even when a team isn't rushing, dropping a Clan mech from 90-106 kph to 15-40 kph is a huge advantage for your side.

LRMs are terrible in every mode. Some people have a thing for them, but you're basically fighting 12v10 or worse when you bring them. Ditch them.

Good Clanners have streakcrows and bring 4 Combat-ready Meds/Heavies in their decks. Use the 250 ton buff to your advantage and do the same. 2x Dragon 2x TDR is a solid anti-clan drop deck. Don't bother with Lights and Assaults (which require Lights to balance their weight).

If you have any pilots still using Trials, don't let them use the IS Trial Assaults ever. They are all terrible. The 6 LPL XL Banshee in particular is hilariously bad. I hadn't expected anyone to build a trial worse than the XL LRM Stalker, but my expectations were shattered with this one.

I'm not interested in attending a summit because that requires listening to and potentially arguing with people who don't know what they're talking about. There's a reason IS Trials are terrible and it's because many of them were community created and voted on by the players. Feel free to PM me if you want, though.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 05 March 2015 - 11:45 AM.

[MischiefSC]

A spider and a stalker or erll bm + a dragon/tbolt combo so that you've got 2xecm on every wave. If you don't have ecm every wave you are doing it wrong. The raven is alright but there are just so many valid uses for a ecm JJ light and the spiders broken hotboxes are not an advantage to be ignored.

[Stormthorn]

MischiefSC, on 04 March 2015 - 01:53 PM, said:

A spider and a stalker or erll bm + a dragon/tbolt combo so that you've got 2xecm on every wave. If you don't have ecm every wave you are doing it wrong. The raven is alright but there are just so many valid uses for a ecm JJ light and the spiders broken hotboxes are not an advantage to be ignored.

Instead of a spider, try taking a cicada-3M with 1 LPL and 3 ML. It can take three to four alphas from a streak boat, is much more brawly, and can actually contribute to a push. It's slow (only 120ish), but it doesn't need to be lighting fast for ecm coverage. The same deck can also carry a dragon, a thunderbolt and an 85 tonner.

[MischiefSC]

Cicada can work just fine but isn't quite as flexible. If you're in a12 man that is 100% heavies that is a better choice than juggling a d-dc. I admit I like having a spider for when you need to ghost the other team on defense or zerging the last gen. Depends on who you run with.

I will always struggle with a cicada not being bad

[YCSLiesmith]

Vlad Ward, on 04 March 2015 - 01:10 PM, said:

Aim for legs.

I like to aim high up on the legs because im not good at shooting and this way i tend to at least hit SOMETHING. but yeah legging dudes ftw.

also call targets. don't just aim at any mech's legs, yell 'H, Stormcrow, focus his legs' into your mic if you're the team leader, or if no one else seems to be doing it. everyone shooting one guy is way more efficient than everyone shooting different guys.

aww vlad you guys went back to the clans? rip

[Vlad Ward]

YCSLiesmith, on 04 March 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

aww vlad you guys went back to the clans? rip

Going CSJ is like printing money. I can bring 2-4 streakboats, derp around against IS pugs, and walk away with 1mil/match from ridiculous streak damage and component kills.

Don't worry, we still <3 you guys.

[Benjamin Davion]

YCSLiesmith, on 04 March 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

I like to aim high up on the legs because im not good at shooting and this way i tend to at least hit SOMETHING. but yeah legging dudes ftw.

also call targets. don't just aim at any mech's legs, yell 'H, Stormcrow, focus his legs' into your mic if you're the team leader, or if no one else seems to be doing it. everyone shooting one guy is way more efficient than everyone shooting different guys.

aww vlad you guys went back to the clans? rip

Careful there, Liesmith, might make people think you're not really such a jerk, being nice to Davions.

But no seriously, he's right. Clanner legs taste like chicken.

And Calon, I've put out the same call on the AFFS website. We need to get our guys together on the regular and starting doing this for real.

[Prophetic]

MischiefSC, on 04 March 2015 - 01:53 PM, said:

A spider and a stalker or erll bm + a dragon/tbolt combo so that you've got 2xecm on every wave. If you don't have ecm every wave you are doing it wrong. The raven is alright but there are just so many valid uses for a ecm JJ light and the spiders broken hotboxes are not an advantage to be ignored.

Seems like HK is rubbing off on people.

[Tasker]

Uhh. I am experienced drop commander. Please continue triple light rush every time on offense! Very effective tactic! So many Davion gains, eyes wide open, stunning success!

[Crockdaddy]

There is quite a bit of good legitimate advice in this thread. Kurita should know, we do kinda piss everyone off so we've now fought most factions and have worked out great methodologies for managing battles. It isn't all skill ... not everyone in HK is PWNface and for the record I often shoot his arm off late in matches for you guys ... well ok mostly for myself so he stops hogging the damage and kills.

[YCSLiesmith]

Crockdaddy, on 06 March 2015 - 07:36 AM, said:

There is quite a bit of good legitimate advice in this thread. Kurita should know, we do kinda piss everyone off so we've now fought most factions and have worked out great methodologies for managing battles. It isn't all skill ... not everyone in HK is PWNface and for the record I often shoot his arm off late in matches for you guys ... well ok mostly for myself so he stops hogging the damage and kills.

it is a time honored NKVA tradition to leg scoops

[Kerc Kasha]

I'm legging scoops as I type this

[Novawrecker]

Kerc Kasha, on 06 March 2015 - 08:03 AM, said:

I'm legging scoops as I type this

I just legged him a few minutes ago

[MischiefSC]

Prophetic, on 06 March 2015 - 07:03 AM, said:

Seems like HK is rubbing off on people.

Hey, ECM all the time every wave isn't just a you guys thing. ECM isn't just about LRMs either; it makes coordinating focus fire more difficult as well as identifying weak points on targets. It's one of those foundation things that separates a good coordinated team from everyone else.

The other comp team builds require some serious focus fire skills and becomes a one trick pony. Given the right team it can be a hell of a great trick - still, less flexibility. Given the population breakup Davion has right now, yeah, the NS approach to builds would do us better. The idea goal is to have enough players bringing synchronous decks and sharing enough tactical skills that you could have a 12man comprised of 4 different units and still field a functioning tactical formation.

[PerfectDuck]

Actually going 4x heavies like drg-drg-tdr-tdr is pretty soft. Evenly spreading tonnage out among all mechs is something a clanner would do.

If anyone's ever played regular 12-man pug queue they'd know that having more tonnage is a generally major advantage. The team of Firestarters/Shadowhawks/Orions/King Crabs generally just performs better than the team of Locust/Cicada/Quickdraw/Awesome ... Bad examples LOL but my point is having more tonnage can turn what may have been a fair and close game into a 12-1 roflstomp, especially when the matchmaker decides that one team should have more assaults than the other.

If the whole team takes a light wave and uses it effectively, that light wave only needs to do so much damage before it has already paid for itself. The true benefit of light rushing has nothing to do with getting kills. If they manage to nail a few timbers or dires, that is icing on the cake. The fact of the matter is, after doing a light rush, the team is now generally much heavier and beefier because they committed more tonnage to the rest of the mechs and it becomes an advantage of out-tonning that can easily snowball into 12-kill avalanches agaisnt clan pushes.

[MischiefSC]

PerfectDuck, on 07 March 2015 - 07:46 AM, said:

Actually going 4x heavies like drg-drg-tdr-tdr is pretty soft. Evenly spreading tonnage out among all mechs is something a clanner would do.

If anyone's ever played regular 12-man pug queue they'd know that having more tonnage is a generally major advantage. The team of Firestarters/Shadowhawks/Orions/King Crabs generally just performs better than the team of Locust/Cicada/Quickdraw/Awesome ... Bad examples LOL but my point is having more tonnage can turn what may have been a fair and close game into a 12-1 roflstomp, especially when the matchmaker decides that one team should have more assaults than the other.

If the whole team takes a light wave and uses it effectively, that light wave only needs to do so much damage before it has already paid for itself. The true benefit of light rushing has nothing to do with getting kills. If they manage to nail a few timbers or dires, that is icing on the cake. The fact of the matter is, after doing a light rush, the team is now generally much heavier and beefier because they committed more tonnage to the rest of the mechs and it becomes an advantage of out-tonning that can easily snowball into 12-kill avalanches agaisnt clan pushes.

Especially with legging, especially on counter-attack. People don't realize that the point of counter-attack is spawn camping. You light rush, cripple or damage the enemy team, then push with a lot of tonnage to mop them up and wade through them to secure a spawn camping location and farm out 1 dropship, turning the last wave or 2 into 12 v 8.

[Vlad Ward]

That doesn't hold up against Clans on Defense-only (which is what a Southern House is forced to play) with no generators to zerg. While it's occasionally possible for Lights to be somewhat useful against extremely weak Clan teams, decent teams will have goalies (Streakcrows, occasionally Streakdogs) ready and can wipe a Light wave before they get very far in combat. The only way for a Light Rush to succeed normally on Clan Attack is for them to outmaneuver the 107kph SSRM30 boats and kill generators before they engage the defending team in combat.

Using a Light wave results in fighting the clans at a 3:4 ratio. Your 3 Mechs against their 4. If the Clan team is really bad, you can get away with it. If they're pure pugs who aren't coordinating or bringing their goalies, you can get away with it. But in these cases, you can get away with doing just about anything, so why bother with strategy at all?

Edit: It's also far less common to see these weak pug teams on the opposing side when playing as Clan Defense. Kuritans will see them all the time as Clan Offense, because Defense on the IS/Clan Border is a *********** of all of each faction's weakest pugs throwing their weight into the blue shield with the biggest queue numbers.

Attack queues are where the teams live. Playing Clan Defense is a very different ballgame.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 08 March 2015 - 11:59 AM.