80 replies to this topic

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

How's that going to work?

Is just being in a unit, even if it's just one person enough to make you "unit Q"?

Or is this a april fools thing?

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 01 April 2016 - 08:42 PM.

[Mcgral18]

They've been talking about it for a long time, so not 1-04 related.

Unit players will just have to pray to RNGeesus their unit-ed friends are competent pilots, and not your typical PUG LIFE stock.

[sycocys]

Imagine the worst possible way you think it can work out. You probably won't be far off from how it is implemented.

[El Bandito]

Mcgral18, on 01 April 2016 - 08:50 PM, said:

Unit players will just have to pray to RNGeesus their unit-ed friends are competent pilots, and not your typical PUG LIFE stock.

On occasion, those two are not mutually exclusive.

[Clownwarlord]

It will force units to play against unit members. So units will be more advantageous for them to from a group and drop in CW than to go solo as a unit member. This will force units that have been farming pugs to finally face real competition instead of their usual pug farming. So what will happen? Units will complain because they can't farm anymore and that they have to have actual talent, but that is to not to be said for all units because some of them are legit. I leave it for you to decide who is legit and who isn't.

Now there might be an issue though, and that is player count. The hope is more solo players will play if they do not have to play against units. But with that units might not have enough to get matches to fill the gaps. Outside of that issue I see no problem with this.

Edited by clownwarlord, 01 April 2016 - 09:15 PM.

[Triordinant]

The Atlas Overlord, on 01 April 2016 - 08:42 PM, said:

Is just being in a unit, even if it's just one person enough to make you "unit Q"?

Yes.

[SuomiWarder]

So if you are in a unit but playing solo, you get dropped in with other units playing as a group?

[Davers]

The only question is how many minutes will it take before players totally game the system so it no longer matters? My guess is zero.

[Appogee]

In the Group Queue

All units will wait longer for matches, because it will take ages for the matchmaker to be able to mix and match units against each other.

Smaller units who cannot mount 12-mans will be the losers in most battles.

In the Solo Queue

If unit members are allowed to remain in a unit while also dropping in CW solo, then unit members will use LFG to sync drop and continue to farm PUGs.

If unit members aren't permitted to drop solo in CW, many will leave their units so they can farm PUGs in CW then rejoin after the CW matches.

Overall

PGI will see that it's not working within about a month, but not get around to reverting the changes for another 6 months.

[MechWarrior4023212]

I give this 2 weeks once it is put in as the ghost drops will go through the roof and players will get very annoyed very quickly.

This would be one of the stupidest ideas they have had, if you want to go solo as a FW pilot then yes you will face sometimes a 12 man team...that is realism.

[Jack Booted Thug]

clownwarlord, on 01 April 2016 - 09:04 PM, said:

Now there might be an issue though, and that is player count. The hope is more solo players will play if they do not have to play against units. But with that units might not have enough to get matches to fill the gaps. Outside of that issue I see no problem with this.

I think that's the biggest thing on everybody's mind. It's extremely rare I see a full 12 of tagged unit players on either side in a match.

It's going to take a lot more coordination among smaller units who can't field a full 12.

Sitting in the que and spamming faction chat to find solos to fill out those empty slots is going to get a whole lot tougher.

Edited by Jack Booted Thug, 02 April 2016 - 01:48 AM.

[Ghogiel]

I have an alt I will farm CW solo queue with if need be. (as in if CW is even worth playing, they fix the stupid things like huge unit caps, ****** game modes etc and then planets mean anything, and if solo queue even affects the outcomes.)

[C E Dwyer]

SuomiWarder, on 02 April 2016 - 12:27 AM, said:

So if you are in a unit but playing solo, you get dropped in with other units playing as a group?

Yup

[C E Dwyer]

Units complaining about pugs and not following orders, CW is the end game, your ruining our fun, join a unit if you want to play it, or get out !

Seen these comments, and ones like it time and time, again, and so not really that surprising that coupled with how hard it is to be a singleton, a challenge I happened to like, far to many others didn't share that view and wouldn't play it.

Time and time again I said solo people were needed, be careful what you wish for, you might not like it, and I was basically told I was an idiot and I didn't have a clue.

Now P.G.I have done something about it, and the first comments I saw were complaints, some of them from people that complained about solo players before now saying how are we going to recruit.

This might make the solo player base grow in size, going to make drop times longer for teams now, just like I said it was.

Its rare I feel smug and I really shouldn't as I think this is going to hurt group play in Faction Wars.

But I have some I told you so to hand out, there is plenty for many of you to share.

[MischiefSC]

If you have a unit tag, you'll be in the unit queue against other tagged people. If you don't, you'll be in the tagless queue.

You can make a unit with just you in it so you can play in the unit queue.

Unit queue is the only one that will flip worlds or impact the CW map directly.

Think of it like this - if you want teamwork, coordination and communication you've either already joined a unit or you can make a single player unit and play with like-minded people. Odds will be much better that your team will comprise either a premade unit or at least people who have actively decided they want to play on a team with a team.

If you don't want teamwork, you don't want to communicate or coordinate you just want to play like a pug on CW map/modes then you drop tags and go play in the tagless queue. Your team is 100% guaranteed to be made up of people who have actually actively decided they don't want to play on a team in a team v team game. There will be no matchmaker, no PSR, nothing. It'll be a **** show and you are unlikely to see attackers push past the gates. Expect people drop drop 4xLRM boats and all sniper builds, expect it to be the literal worst conceivable play in CW all pushed together in to one horrifying hole.

Which if you make a single player unit you won't ever have to see anymore. It's essentially splitting wheat from chaff and if you want to play CW as 'hardcore mode' where the coordinated team wins and people are there because they know that then tag up and get to it.

I'm really looking forward to it.

[RebJohhny]

Ember Stormfield, on 02 April 2016 - 01:39 AM, said:

I give this 2 weeks once it is put in as the ghost drops will go through the roof and players will get very annoyed very quickly.

This would be one of the stupidest ideas they have had, if you want to go solo as a FW pilot then yes you will face sometimes a 12 man team...that is realism.

i think this too. also some of the strongest players in CW i saw were without units, so they going to be pug stomping without any one on other side to stop them. if solo q offers same lp rewards as unit q many will go to solo q to stomp pugs and get fastest rewards possible

[Lykaon]

Cathy, on 02 April 2016 - 02:03 AM, said:

Units complaining about pugs and not following orders, CW is the end game, your ruining our fun, join a unit if you want to play it, or get out !

Seen these comments, and ones like it time and time, again, and so not really that surprising that coupled with how hard it is to be a singleton, a challenge I happened to like, far to many others didn't share that view and wouldn't play it.

Time and time again I said solo people were needed, be careful what you wish for, you might not like it, and I was basically told I was an idiot and I didn't have a clue.

Now P.G.I have done something about it, and the first comments I saw were complaints, some of them from people that complained about solo players before now saying how are we going to recruit.

This might make the solo player base grow in size, going to make drop times longer for teams now, just like I said it was.

Its rare I feel smug and I really shouldn't as I think this is going to hurt group play in Faction Wars.

But I have some I told you so to hand out, there is plenty for many of you to share.

If your CW drop included 8 players with a cohesive plan and 2 players grouped and two solos wouldn't you think that it was in the 2 player group and the two solos best intrests to get with the plan and follow some directions?

Yet, many could not grasp the concept of teamwork because as we know puggies don't. They are far to "skilled" to follow a plan or work with a team they are after all what the entirety of MWo revolves around.

Puggies have got something lodged deep between the cheeks when it comes to working with groups. They are sour to to core about it and would rather sabotage a group on their own team than win a CW match.

Now apparently this saltyness doesn't apply to just groups but any player found "guilty of grouping ever" ie: a unit member.

"Joined a unit I see...exiled to the worst matchmaker PGI can muster...that'll show you to play this game with cooperation and planning!"

At what point should we expect players who are willingly playing a competitive team oriented battle simulation to play organized and cooperativley?

Serious question.When?

How is it possible that a solo player can even think they were too good to follow a team plan? The answer is as I stated they were so bent out of shape at losing in the past and scapegoated the groups. They demonized groups and grouping that now when they have to play cooperativley they will refuse.

And do they ever have to learn to play cooperativley? nope.Instead unit players are given the scraps of a game and forced to play using a matchmaker optimized for the solos playing with a PSR mechanic optimized for solos. Playing solo against groups just because they joined a unit.

Don't even try to pass this off as grouping unit based players getting what they wanted,It's as it always is the bottom of the barrel rising to the top to get whatever they want from PGI at the expense of the more dedicated stable player population ie: grouping unit members.

Here is the issue right in the nutty center of it all.

When a solo puggie loses a match how many imediatley switch to blame mode?

It was the other team's fault they were a full group of pug farmers ...whiiiine!

It was the group in my team's fault! They used me as cannon fodder so they could farm kills!....Whiiiine!

It was my team mates fault they sucked! ....Whiiiine!

It was the matchmaker's fault it put me in a bad match!....whiiiine!

It was the try hards fault I lost I want to play my LRM and machine gun Kingcrab it's a fun build but those meta tryhards...bla bla bla ...Whiiiine!

It's always something but never the two real reasons they losts.

ONE: The enemy team played better and they deserved the win.

TWO: Your team failed to organized adiquatley to pull off a victory.

That is the problem right there!

[C E Dwyer]

I don't disagree, before I joined a unit I always followed a plan if there was one, as I knew it was in my best interest, however a lot of vocal people in the units told soloists to get out of CW there's no place for you here, and now they don't have to go near them, and now even that is apparently wrong.

This IS a team game, and this is the big factor, and I have never supported the solo rambo in a team game, I simply said over and over there is a place for solo people in CW, that units do need them and I was told nope.

I hold solo jocks that play CW and then disco or suicide, because of whom they are facing with a deep held contempt, and when I played CW a lot I made sure that PGI could deal with them in the official way, I didn't come here rant and tell them to F off, which made the people that wanted to fight properly feel unwelcome and not join in.

These Rambo jocks did point fingers at the try hards.

But how much of this has happened because of extremist on both sides. I took a moderate view and wanted CW to be the best part of this game but it was clear from the off that moderate views were not welcome.

A lot of moderate people that just wanted to play the game, support the groups and learn stopped because of it, and now nobody is really going to be happy.

The Rambo's will still Rambo thinking solo skill wins all and be very wrong, but maybe will get shorter wait times, as will the moderates, that if we're honest would rather be in with the groups, but were made to feel bad because they wouldn't join a unit, and the unit wouldn't use the in game viop and excluded the solo's.

The units will be looking at longer wait times.

I think you'll find that the units fired the first shots, and are now going to suffer more for the lack of acceptance.

[Johnny Z]

I honestly don't know what to think about how this is being added. They are taking the lessons learned in the regular queue and group queues and moving them to the faction play queue. Not exactly the same but maybe in a better way.

If small groups and solo players want access to the unit content they can........ along with large units/guilds. This is very fair. It may not be easy but at least its available to all players. Its an extremely smart way to go about it and they had to have put a lot of thought into coming up with it.

Again it wont be easy for small units or indi players in the unit queue and they have gone through efforts to protect the solo queue from the GOON guilds. Of course not all guilds are interesting in bullying and such but some most definately are which is the issue in this part.

This game basically dies without solo/indi players. Lets make that very clear. This goes for all games.

They are adding additional/extra content for units, to reward units for teaming up and working together lets be clear about that to. That content being available to small guilds/individual players is only fair.

Personally I think it should all be one queue but like I started saying they are using lessons learned in the regular queues. Something a player cant fully understand I assume.

After a lot of thought, how its being done looks really good.

One last thing that should be obvious but may not be is that for over a year its been a single queue..... If this split queue doesn't work its a given that changes would be made. Its also a given some will try and trash this split queue thing even if it works perfectly and that's to be expected. That the single queue was being trashed by some is also a given.... I guess its a wait and see sort of thing.

Edited by Johnny Z, 02 April 2016 - 05:38 AM.

[Zoid]

clownwarlord, on 01 April 2016 - 09:04 PM, said:

Now there might be an issue though, and that is player count. The hope is more solo players will play if they do not have to play against units. But with that units might not have enough to get matches to fill the gaps. Outside of that issue I see no problem with this.

I see this being a huge issue. I'm taking a tour of the factions to get everything to rank 2 and a 'mech bay and the numbers are horribly low. Waiting 15-20 minutes for a game is pretty common and I don't see the average PUGlife player doing that. If more solo players join CW it'll be better but just splitting the queue is going to be terrible.

Personally I don't see this being a big issue to solve to begin with. There are very few really good roflstomp premades out there. I play CW purely solo and the number of times I've won or at least had a close game against a premade significantly outnumbers the number of times I've just been stomped.

The big thing this will help is the big battles (Tukayyid). It did get incredibly irritating to run into full premade after full premade with the last one on BOTH sides (I switched from IS to Clan due to queue times). The MM really should try to put premades against premades and PUGs vs PUGs if possible.