109 replies to this topic

[Yokaiko]

MischiefSC, on 06 March 2015 - 03:08 PM, said:

So how fast is the Stalker? How much does it weigh? What's the sustained DPS on it again, what with LLs having a longer cooldown than most the weapons the laservomit TW has. Oh, plus JJs. Have you looked at mobility differences? How is that ability to move your arms side to side thing working out?

Are you seriously saying that the TW and the Stalker are equal mechs to compare? The TW is all around superior to the Stalker, for 10 tons less. That's the point. Comparable firepower, comparable heat, just about comparable armor (given that you don't relaly need back armor on a TW) plus JJs and 50%% faster, plus more agile twisting and maneuverability, for 10 less tons.

Stalker 4N has faster burn and cycle times than any vomit timber, look at the quirks.

[Richter Kerensky]

The Stalker 4N is a great mech but its kind of nuts to pretend that the Timberwolf doesn't have like a hundred things going for it that the 4N doesn't and only compare damage output.

[Yokaiko]

Richter Kerensky, on 06 March 2015 - 03:18 PM, said:

The Stalker 4N is a great mech but its kind of nuts to pretend that the Timberwolf doesn't have like a hundred things going for it that the 4N doesn't and only compare damage output.

You are dreaming, Timbers are not in the same zip code on sustained fire. Mainly because the llas on the stalker are cooler than the er-mlss on the timber, plus you have to screw up to ghost the larges.

Stalker out ranges, out cools, AND out tanks a Timber.

[Richter Kerensky]

The Timberwolf is also much faster and more maneuverable, almost like the game is balanced around the Timberwolf being a Heavy class mech and the Stalker being an Assault class mech, but I'm not the one arguing that the Timberwolf is straight up better than the 4N, I'm saying it's silly to say the 4N is straight up better than the Timberwolf by only comparing damage output because it gives you an incomplete picture of what's going on.

If we wanted to do that the Nova would be the best mech in the game because you can stick twelve medium lasers on it, never mind that it instantly explodes if you hit the alpha button.

Edited by Richter Kerensky, 06 March 2015 - 03:33 PM.

[Yokaiko]

That works be ignoring the cool now, wouldn't it.

Fact is mobility is all that a Timber has over a lot of Stalker builds.

[Lukoi Banacek]

60 pilots from each side,fighting,over a planet. Certainly not uncommon.

IS gets 5 drops, Clans get 6. Problem for IS imo. Encourages further nerfing of Clan Tech or Clan options which further degrades the 10v12 concept. Tbh I dont see it as needed in the current state of the game but wanted to point this out.

Might be old news....gone over a week,for,work and didnt have time to,skim entire thread. Sorry if so.

[Hydrocarbon]

Summon3r, on 05 March 2015 - 08:34 AM, said:

1st things FIRST, any half decent IS 12 man i have played against in CW vs our 12 man are always good well balanced fights, that said:

go big or go home, 4 IS lances (16mechs) vs 3 clan stars (15mechs) keep the 10ton boost or push it to 20tons since we are adding another lance/star

I recall beginning CW in clan mechs (as a PUG), and my dropdeck always included 2 s***ty trial mechs. I was out-damaging most of the IS mechs we faced, regularly stoping 12-man IS teams. My IS unit regularly has issues with even PUG Clan teams. Tonight we fought the same people 3 games in a row. We defended twice (lost once), both were close. When we attacked, it was a 2:1 slaughter. One mech I was targeting was down to 6% and still firing a laser, meanwhile I was killed in 2 shots by a streakboat.

The 16v15 idea would be ideal, but they already have issues with 12v12 - both server- and client-side. Which is amazing when you consider BF:BC2 had 16v16 half a decade ago.

[Hydrocarbon]

DarthRevis, on 05 March 2015 - 12:46 PM, said:

10 v 12 would be a re do of the MM and could result in down time. Its also WAAAAAAAY more work then quirks so they took the path of least resistance!

That point has no merit if 10v12 is only applied to CW, for obvious reasons. Regardless I'm sure MANY people would endure the endless downtime because MM is so hopelessly broken. It seeks averages and ignores ECM/BAP & s*** builds alike, leading to so many terrible games. A team with a median ELO of 900 vs a median of 1300 will get it's ass stopmed despite both team averages being equal. ECM can also completely shut down the enemy - I've seen teams with at least 3 ECM's & no ECM nor BAP on the other side to counter. My favorite was the 1st game I tried a LRM-Crow - 3 ECM's and most of my DMG was from dumb-firing. I never tried the LRM-Crow again because I trust MM as far as I can throw a Direwolf.

Oddly enough CW seems to produce less steamrolls vs PUG 12v12's, and the ONLY requirement is fitting a min/max tonnage. Come to think of it, I can't recall the last time I've been in a CW match where it was 4-48; however, I do recall at least three 12-0 games last weekend in the 12v12 PUG modes.

Edited by Hydrocarbon, 06 March 2015 - 10:07 PM.

[Hydrocarbon]

Yokaiko, on 06 March 2015 - 03:22 PM, said:

Stalker out ranges, out cools, AND out tanks a Timber.

Yet you don't seem to ever have played the 4N. Do you know how many hits/kills I've missed in a 4N because it was so ungodly slow and torso twisted like a old man wearing a neck brace?? In my 4N I now ignore what would be easy kills in a Timber much more than I like. The opposing Timber only has to take a step back off the hill he's on to disappear after firing. I can kill a erml/lpl Timber with my 4N if it plays the heat game (and doesn't run when hurt), but even then I come out missing BIG chunks of armor. If I'm hurt, I can't run away and certainly can't hide by jumpjetting over the hill behind me.

[cSand]

Hydrocarbon, on 06 March 2015 - 10:05 PM, said:

Oddly enough CW seems to produce less steamrolls vs PUG 12v12's, and the ONLY requirement is fitting a min/max tonnage. Come to think of it, I can't recall the last time I've been in a CW match where it was 4-48; however, I do recall at least three 12-0 games last weekend in the 12v12 PUG modes.

well, yea, that's not odd at all really

You have 4 chances to pick up your sticks in CW

In the PUG queues you get one chance and if you blow it then that's a decent size piece the team is missing

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Necromantion, on 06 March 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

Uhhhh what?

No point to argue with you.
You are like wall of bricks.



Where is damn ignore button.


edited to soften

Edited by Jaeger Gonzo, 06 March 2015 - 11:46 PM.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Hydrocarbon, on 06 March 2015 - 09:50 PM, said:

The 16v15 idea would be ideal, but they already have issues with 12v12 - both server- and client-side. Which is amazing when you consider BF:BC2 had 16v16 half a decade ago.

Warband is going even up to 125v125

[Domenoth]

Gyrok, on 05 March 2015 - 05:16 PM, said:

1. My point was that any players you lose to clans would quickly be replaced by incoming new players.

Gyrok, on 05 March 2015 - 05:16 PM, said:

1. ...by incoming new players.

Gyrok, on 05 March 2015 - 05:16 PM, said:

1. ...by new players.

Gyrok, on 05 March 2015 - 05:16 PM, said:

new players.

Ever heard of a pyramid scheme?

Quote

A pyramid scheme is an unsustainable business model...Eventually, recruiting is no longer possible and the plurality of members are unable to profit from the scheme.

Pyramid schemes fail shortly after blossoming and they are designed to make people think they are going to get free money for doing nothing. How can you expect anything different from something that requires you to pay considerably (grind or real money along with getting good enough to not suck).

If more than 50% of vets are encouraged to go Clan and once there they like it and stay, you're eventually going to reach a point where you can't recruit enough "new players" to go up against the Clan horde. Let's also not forget that new players are terrible so with a hugely diluted population of vets to help them get better, they will soon get fed up and leave exacerbating the problem.

Let me also point out that this is describing an ideal situation. Everyone who goes Clan loves it and continues to play regularly. If you're best-case scenario is something that dooms the game, how can this be a good suggestion?

You say you think it will work. I say I don't think it will. I don't really think we can come to a consensus on this. I think you are flat out wrong and you can go ahead and think that about me. My real purpose in posting this is to show other people that your statements might not be as cut and dry as you believe them to be.

Edited by Domenoth, 06 March 2015 - 11:17 PM.

[CyclonerM]

Domenoth, on 06 March 2015 - 11:13 PM, said:

I don't really think we can come to a consensus on this.

This is why we need a test so that people will be mostly convinced of either argument..

[anonymous161]

I think it's the map layout personally. I'm all for taking out the nerfs for the clans make the lasers better again.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

How can you compare a Timber to a Stalker?
Stalker is 10 tons heavier, so it SHOULD be better.
Even so, I am not so sure it is better than a Timber.

[salkeee]

1.My Stalker 4N can beat up front every timberwolf that is staring at me and not using its speed yes Stalker OP.

2.Poor clan tech they have poor mechs but only skilled players there.

Those my 2 sentences doesnt go 1 with other but please pick one that U like.

[CyclonerM]

Leeroy Mechkins, on 07 March 2015 - 06:07 AM, said:

How can you compare a Timber to a Stalker?
Stalker is 10 tons heavier, so it SHOULD be better.
Even so, I am not so sure it is better than a Timber.

Heavier should not mean automatically better.

Heavier = bigger, slower, less agile, but with more armor and firepower (though this is an oversemplification, see Gargoyle or Ice Ferret)

Edited by CyclonerM, 07 March 2015 - 07:46 AM.

[Stealth Fox]

I can't believe the crying about jump jets on the timber here
They never seemed to be any good to me besides getting over those magical PGI rocks that stop multi ton mecha dead in their tracks. They're absolute garbage when it comes to scaling anything more than the most modest of hills...which ANY mech should be able to get over by the way.. and lord knows you are not poptarting (is that still a thing even?) or ridge sniping with those low slung weapons.

To the people complaining about a Timber being faster than a Stalker... well no ****... to the people staying a Stalker can out damage a Timby? Well no ****.. You don't chase in a Stalker, you wait somewhere and let an IS light or Mid dangle a kill cookie in front of the clanner and let them run into the Stalker close range. Clanner shits their pants, Stalker pounds them to slag. Stalker will out laser just about anything clan has at the moment. Which....by the way..Sarnia says is suppose to have impressive weapons but crap heat management... hmmm look at that..

[Yokaiko]

Hydrocarbon, on 06 March 2015 - 10:17 PM, said:

Yet you don't seem to ever have played the 4N. Do you know how many hits/kills I've missed in a 4N because it was so ungodly slow and torso twisted like a old man wearing a neck brace?? In my 4N I now ignore what would be easy kills in a Timber much more than I like. The opposing Timber only has to take a step back off the hill he's on to disappear after firing. I can kill a erml/lpl Timber with my 4N if it plays the heat game (and doesn't run when hurt), but even then I come out missing BIG chunks of armor. If I'm hurt, I can't run away and certainly can't hide by jumpjetting over the hill behind me.

You would be incorrect, when I'm IS side (my unit run bi-weekly contracts) I use both -4N and -5S Stalkers depending on my mood.....both module mastered The -4S usually on defense and the -5S on attack, counter attacks I run all heavies and mediums, assaults only make it into my drop deck if the drop caller wants lights.

Leeroy Mechkins, on 07 March 2015 - 06:07 AM, said:

How can you compare a Timber to a Stalker?
Stalker is 10 tons heavier, so it SHOULD be better.
Even so, I am not so sure it is better than a Timber.

Ok so how about a Thud -5SS I charge timber wolves and chop them apart with mine, fresh mech to fresh mech I'll lose an arm and maybe get a torso beat up, but one on one there aren't many tTmberwolves that can takes the firepower that a thud can lay down.

....and NO timberwolf can tank like it, none.

Ten tons less.