41 replies to this topic

[Crockdaddy]

I am somewhat confused. We were accused of Spawn Camping tonight. We were attacking. In each case about half way through the match if not a bit earlier we basically decided to fight rather than finish the cap off right away. One reason was an attempt to get everyone to 80 points ... we have a lot of fresh players in the unit and we were working on new routes and showing them where to go we in no way were even close to our "A" team. Can you spawn camp when attacking?? Defense gets drop ships in bound AND DEFENSE turrets? They mentioned it was in the rules but honestly I am not aware of a rule which states this anywhere.

[Lukoi Banacek]

What rules?

There's no published rules.

Hell, there's no published tutorial, instruction manual, PDF for ghost heat etc etc.

Ignore em and farm them as they spawn.

[ZenFool]

They let you camp their dropship spawn and kill off 1/3 of their force unopposed right? I've seen this multiple times on the hot map from alpha gate. It's very difficult to get a group of people to counter attack, which is the only thing that's gonna work to keep the enemy from plucking your buddies off one by one.

To OP, don't be concerned with their trying to throw a rulebook at you. Instead of coming up with a valid tactic, they spent energy coming up with an excuse. Get your kills while you can, for the pugs and groups adapt and today's whine is tomorrow's forgotten memory. The great gerbil wheel of mech combat.

[Crockdaddy]

I figured as much but you never know.

[Tahribator]

It's just bad map design, if the attackers are in the base there's no way of avoiding this.

[Accused]

Yeah I stood in a direwolf right behind the poor mechs that drop from the ship. Although honestly if you're down to your last 8 or so there's not a lot your team can do about it.

[cacti46]

accused of spawn camping....they clearly were terribru, you should have never been allowed to get that close to their pad or kill that many defenders. sorry but thats just how I see it.

[Druarc]

At least 2 of the maps are designed that if your hitting omega then your in the same spot they drop.

Maps should allow the defenders a chance to hit back.

Had a match last night where we had 2 fresh mechs drop vs 4 battle scarred, I dropped into 1v4 and last pilot a 1v3, if we'd been able to connect up might have made it more of a fight.

[Cer6erus]

If you let the enemy in to spawn camp, you are losing anyway.

[Mycrus]

If defenders huddle up at base this is what generally happens and should not surprise anyone.

Map design and spawn points is to blame here and not attackers

[Johnny Z]

I have an issue with the defending dropships using medium lasers instead of the ERLL. This is likely a test for the beta though. Again this is beta so this is all to be expected.

[S204STi]

Problem is map design, not tactics. If one lance keeps dropping into the middle of a brawl, the attackers should not feel obligated to hold fire and let them shoot back. PGI's problem, ultimately.

[Monkey Lover]

Biggest issue i seen is mechs getting killed before they can even move. Why is there a 2-3 second delay once they hit the ground?

[Krivvan]

Monkey Lover, on 10 March 2015 - 10:34 AM, said:

Biggest issue i seen is mechs getting killed before they can even move. Why is there a 2-3 second delay once they hit the ground?

I haven't experienced any delay like that.

[SteelWarrior]

Holy necro batman.

And you can totally kill a timberwolf before it can even move from its drop point, hell we kill anything under 50 tons before it even touches the ground. Should have a 5 second immunity to damage codded in.

[MungFuSensei]

I don't even see this as an issue with the maps. It's purely player error.

First, you let them into your base in a state that is relatively undamaged. You need significant numbers and decent armor to tank against dropships AND players.

Then, you let them stay there. The moment a dropship comes down is the moment that you push. You have fresh mechs coming into that spot, with covering fire. If you push with everything else, that gives you an overwhelming advantage.

You would lose mechs in the trade, but it would be a positive gain. You could roll 12 attackers with probably 4-5 losses in that scenario. Yet no one does it.

"It's cheating"
"It's bad map design"
"Turrets/dropships need to be more powerful"

I hear these excuses all the time, and yet no one takes the time to ask the question "can this be countered?". Same thing with light rushes, TDR spam, TBR spam, SCR spam, or any dominant tactic that has ever arisen in this game. People always seek to blame the game, before they even dare to consider that there could be a method to solve the problem with tools already available.

[sdsnowbum]

MungFuSensei, on 10 March 2015 - 11:19 AM, said:

I don't even see this as an issue with the maps. It's purely player error.

On Sulfur it is 99% the map. There is just too much cover for spawn campers.

On other maps, I agree that defenders letting things get that far is a mistake...but dammit they don't need to be punished so brutally and for so long (basically the rest of the match) for this one mistake that can occur 4 min into the match.

Edited by sdsnowbum, 10 March 2015 - 12:23 PM.

[Amsro]

MungFuSensei, on 10 March 2015 - 11:19 AM, said:

I don't even see this as an issue with the maps. It's purely player error.

First, you let them into your base in a state that is relatively undamaged. You need significant numbers and decent armor to tank against dropships AND players.

Then, you let them stay there. The moment a dropship comes down is the moment that you push. You have fresh mechs coming into that spot, with covering fire. If you push with everything else, that gives you an overwhelming advantage.

You would lose mechs in the trade, but it would be a positive gain. You could roll 12 attackers with probably 4-5 losses in that scenario. Yet no one does it.

"It's cheating"
"It's bad map design"
"Turrets/dropships need to be more powerful"

I hear these excuses all the time, and yet no one takes the time to ask the question "can this be countered?". Same thing with light rushes, TDR spam, TBR spam, SCR spam, or any dominant tactic that has ever arisen in this game. People always seek to blame the game, before they even dare to consider that there could be a method to solve the problem with tools already available.

The first 2 CW maps are designed bad, there is no denying it. The third one is getting better, hopefully the 4th is again a step up.

Explain to me if you can why you think the maps are designed well.?

[Alexander Steel]

Considering the Defender's spawn point is often right on top of the objectives it's hard not to spawn camp if you are winning as an attacker. I mean what do they want you to do, ignore the enemy mech that's right on top of you until they say "green light"!

[MungFuSensei]

sdsnowbum, on 10 March 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

On Sulfur it is 99% the map. There is just too much cover for spawn campers.

On other maps, I agree that defenders letting things get that far is a mistake...but dammit they don't need to be punished so brutally and for so long (basically the rest of the match) for this one mistake that can occur 4 min into the match.

Have you considered fighting outside of the base? And even with cover, a concentrated push, timed with the dropships, can wreck any number of attackers. It will cost you mechs to do so, but it will stop their camp, and you will end up with a positive kill lead in the trade.

Amsro, on 10 March 2015 - 12:27 PM, said:

The first 2 CW maps are designed bad, there is no denying it. The third one is getting better, hopefully the 4th is again a step up.

Explain to me if you can why you think the maps are designed well.?

The only criticism that people have for these maps is the spawn camping, and I showed how that could be stopped.

Alexander Steel, on 10 March 2015 - 12:29 PM, said:

Considering the Defender's spawn point is often right on top of the objectives it's hard not to spawn camp if you are winning as an attacker. I mean what do they want you to do, ignore the enemy mech that's right on top of you until they say "green light"!

The closer the spawns are to the objectives, the closer they are to base turrets.

So, everything stacks up in the defenders favor. The only remaining factor is skill disparity. If the skill gap surpasses the advantage that the base provides to the defenders, then it'll look like spawn camping is broken. The only time that spawn camping is even possible is when there is a skill gap.

This is why you more readily hear about spawn camping from solo players and you rarely hear it complained about from units that roll 12 mans.