28 replies to this topic

[Mandrakerootes]

Dont know where to put it so I put it on home turf where no mean clanner can hurt me by badposting /s .

So I thought about a way to incentivize the clans to push their limits by implementing the betting system originally used by the clans. But in a way that will not alter current gameplay mechanisms(atleast initially).

So instead of dropping less players(aka less mechs) or less mechs per player, make it less tonna ge per player. Stop, dont start the rage, hear me out.

Clans will still have 240 tonnes maximum Dropdeck weight, but for every ton(or another arbitrary set of tonnes) they will get a C-Bill bonus(balancing is of course debatable).

Over time or with enough data, you can figure out the exact numbers but for now just the mechanism.

This C-Bill bonus is ofcourse percentage based, so no 200k extra cbills for lightrushing or something.

The entire point is that, if you feel up to it, drop with 200 tonnes and get a bonus, if you see that your performance is worse you can allways go up again, but good players will see this as an extra challenge, and if you are fighting a tough opponent you can allways go full gear.

I intended this to be nonpenalizing, but if it shows that people really like it, you could even lower the winning income of the clans or remove it and replace it by the Batchall entirely.

Comments appreciated.

[nehebkau]

A bonus for unused tonnage would be a great idea.

[Divine Retribution]

It's a good incentive that doesn't force anyone to do anything... I like it!

[aniviron]

Good teams will still drop at max or near max tonnage; a 5% income boost per ton under isn't going to make up for the fact that you're probably adding in an equally large chance of not winning when you drop tonnage.

[Mandrakerootes]

aniviron, on 07 March 2015 - 10:07 PM, said:

Good teams will still drop at max or near max tonnage; a 5% income boost per ton under isn't going to make up for the fact that you're probably adding in an equally large chance of not winning when you drop tonnage.

Yes, thats why its optional, and you can allways change it on the fly. It counts on a per match basis obviously.

So lets say you are 228th, and you are starting your attack on a planet, you notice that you are only fighting pugs and the Drop Lead says, well we can do this with 160 tonnes each. Now they gain like 40% more C-Bills while it is more of a challenge for them, and more of a real fight for the pugs.

Or they could say **** the C-Bills lets go 240 and roll them. Its up to everybody.

And if you are solo dropping and know you are probably up against pugs too, you can also reduce your tonnage to earn more C-Bills, but if you enjoy totally stomping a pug team singlehandedly just drop 240 and get 25 kills. Again its up to you.

[jeirhart]

Mandrakerootes, on 08 March 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:

Yes, thats why its optional, and you can allways change it on the fly. It counts on a per match basis obviously.

So lets say you are 228th, and you are starting your attack on a planet, you notice that you are only fighting pugs and the Drop Lead says, well we can do this with 160 tonnes each. Now they gain like 40% more C-Bills while it is more of a challenge for them, and more of a real fight for the pugs.

Or they could say **** the C-Bills lets go 240 and roll them. Its up to everybody.

And if you are solo dropping and know you are probably up against pugs too, you can also reduce your tonnage to earn more C-Bills, but if you enjoy totally stomping a pug team singlehandedly just drop 240 and get 25 kills. Again its up to you.

That is a lot of guess work. Unless my unit had complete and perfect knowledge that the enemy we were about to fight were pugs (which is not gonna happen) I would never advocate dropping in anything less than optimal. Fighting for 30 minutes and losing is not worth the risk to potentially earn more cbills.

Also do not want to give incentives to pugs to bring low tonnage drop decks in the hope they will be carried to victory and a sweet low-tonnage bonus by other players on their team.

Edited by jeirhart, 08 March 2015 - 05:14 AM.

[Mandrakerootes]

jeirhart, on 08 March 2015 - 05:10 AM, said:

That is a lot of guess work. Unless my unit had complete and perfect knowledge that the enemy we were about to fight were pugs (which is not gonna happen) I would never advocate dropping in anything less than optimal. Fighting for 30 minutes and losing is not worth the risk to potentially earn more cbills.

Also do not want to give incentives to pugs to bring low tonnage drop decks in the hope they will be carried to victory and a sweet low-tonnage bonus by other players on their team.

This cbill bonus is personal, It doesnt apply to the team, and as I said its percentage based, so getting carried will give you nothing, because if you do not actually have actions that net you cbills that percentage bonus is way less impactful.

As of now its guesswork yes, but if you notice that there is a twelve man dropping(either because you fought them or somebody told you, you can redeck for the next drop, in the grand scheme of things, that one loss doesnt really matter)
Plus, for the first couple of fights its mostly pugs anyway.

But that aside, I am thinking futuristic here, we cannot throw away ideas simply because the foundation is missing. And as they stated the will bring 4v4 into CW and thus new gamemodes, this probably means secondary objectives, even something like scouting the enemy I hope. If you had the ability to change your dropdeck according to the enemy you face, this mechanism will become more relevant.

[nehebkau]

I think if you drop at the minimum weight, 160, that you should get 100% bonus to both cbills, experience and loyalty points. Dropping at 200 tons would give you 50% -- that's a much better incentive and well worth the risk.

Dropping with 80 tons less would really test a teams skill and would really show who the truly skilled units are.

Edited by nehebkau, 08 March 2015 - 08:51 AM.

[Mandrakerootes]

^ this is the essence. Thank you.

[EldenLance]

Thats quite a nice idea. Gotta propose it to the dev team somehow.

[Mandrakerootes]

EldenLance, on 10 March 2015 - 12:57 AM, said:

Thats quite a nice idea. Gotta propose it to the dev team somehow.

I saw that feature suggestion forum yesterday, is there a way to move the topic?

[Richard Warts]

Mandrakerootes, on 08 March 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:

Yes, thats why its optional, and you can allways change it on the fly. It counts on a per match basis obviously.

So lets say you are 228th, and you are starting your attack on a planet, you notice that you are only fighting pugs and the Drop Lead says, well we can do this with 160 tonnes each. Now they gain like 40% more C-Bills while it is more of a challenge for them, and more of a real fight for the pugs.

Or they could say **** the C-Bills lets go 240 and roll them. Its up to everybody.

And if you are solo dropping and know you are probably up against pugs too, you can also reduce your tonnage to earn more C-Bills, but if you enjoy totally stomping a pug team singlehandedly just drop 240 and get 25 kills. Again its up to you.

I kind of like that idea.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

much kudos for this idea. not only is it lore friendly (lowest bidding wins out, honor for the bloodname, and clan for a successfuly operation with the lowest bid), but also not another nerf/penalisation.

my only concern is that "score fapper" who already have loads of c-bills and mech won't use this system. while those who do could use a c-bills buff (because they don't have all that fancy mech and module stuff) hardly benefit from the bonus.

[Jonathan Paine]

Would be a nice bonus for players that, unlike me, cant bring any mech in the game to create the perfect 2xx dropdeck. Yeah, here is your disadvantage, but hey have some c-bills. If only this applied to schmucks forced to drop in mechs without maxed skills and modules too...

Goes without saying that this has to apply even when you lose.

[Chef Kerensky]

nehebkau, on 06 March 2015 - 12:43 PM, said:

A bonus for unused tonnage would be a great idea.

Except it rewards triple light rushes like no mechanic ever has before.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Chef Kerensky, on 11 March 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:

Except it rewards triple light rushes like no mechanic ever has before.

you don't really get paid for light rushes.. light ganking maybe but not the actual 12 x 100 dmg, no assist, no kill "let's exploit take advantage of broken hitboxes, lagshield and poor mapdesign!" light rush bs.

i also havn't witnessed a single successful clan lightrush (tonnage bonus as mentioned by OP is for CLANS not IS!).

additional:

the batchall

"Most trials begin with a ritual challenge called a Batchall, where the challenger declares" ... "other parameters depending on the type of trial." ... "the challenger and the challenged then perform bidding for the forces each will use in the battle.
Each bid is less than the previous bid, causing both parties to keep undercutting each other until they reach the minimum amount of force. This is partly because to win with fewer forces is more glorious, but also minimizes the military waste created by the trial."


"With the batchall complete the attackers and defenders then bid amongst themselves for the right to fight in the challenge, with subcommanders bidding away units, individuals or even specific weapons in an effort to win with the fewest forces, thereby preventing waste and earning personal glory."

"It is seen as a sign of respect for an opponent to issue a batchall and so dishonorable opponents are not given this courtesy. Instead they may be attacked with all forces at the challenger's command without warning."



http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Clans
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Batchall

Edited by LOADED, 11 March 2015 - 01:44 PM.

[Mandrakerootes]

Chef Kerensky, on 11 March 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:

Except it rewards triple light rushes like no mechanic ever has before.

I addressed that before, and as I said, its a percentage based bonus. You could also say it rewards ghost drops, but in a ghost drop, just like a light rush, you dont get alot of Cbills, and even with that mechanic you would never get more cbills than actually dropping in a normal deck and doing bad to mediocre. Simply because on a light rush you do not perform actions that net cbills(kills,assists,components,spots,damage and all the other associated things). You dont even get salvage because you kill like 4 mechs tops. All you get is the winbonus..

@Jonathan, yes this would ofcourse apply for every game not only for wins, but I think making it only clan is mandatory both lore wise and to add another balance lever for IS vs. Clan. As I stated if the clans earn to much money, lower or remove their winbonus. This way they get more cbills every game but dont get extra rewards for wins, like the IS does.

[Michael Costanza]

Why not make it a true batchall except you bid dropship slots and/or players instead of mechs. Not only would you get a cbill bonus, you'd get a loyalty point bonus and an extra tick if certain threshholds are met.

Say each player is worth 4 points and each dropship slot is worth a point. That'd be 96 points possible to bid with (12x4 dropship slots + 12x4 players = 96).

If you bid 12 points (the equivalent of each dropship having 3 mechs instead of 4), you get extra loyalty points and cbills.

If you bid 48 points (the equivalent of a 9 man team) you get an extra tick if you win as well as the previous bonuses.

It'd probably take some involved coding but it'd add some interesting flavor and allow groups smaller than 12 mans to drop.

Edited by Michael Costanza, 11 March 2015 - 02:10 PM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Michael Costanza, on 11 March 2015 - 02:08 PM, said:

Why not make it a true batchall ...

to difficult, getting rewarded for less tonnage is simple and smart (also lorefriendly)

i wouldn't want to be one of the 4 pugs who would actually like to drop on a planet, but can't because an 8 man premade decided that this round will be 8 man and no more.

everyone should decide what kind of bonus he wan't to roll. (maybe even with how many mechs he will roll out, have seen quite a few player charging 2 times with a lynx into enemy lines or flat out ejected upon spawn, just so they could roll out their whales)

[Marodeur]

As I already told you, I really like this idea. As said before from others, it fits the lore, is simple, brings more depth to the game and can give pugs a better chance against organized groups and the premades can have a more challenging fight and some adrenalin...and may be cbills. It is a win win situation. But I think it has to be limited to only the clans side (what I think you intended) . First reason is, that it fits the lore. Second reason is, if both (clans and IS) would have this possibility there would be games where both sides will have an agreement where they drop both in lights and fight until the end, so both teams get the normal kills, assists etc. with extra cbill bonus. And that wouldn't amuse pgi.
Only problem I see when it is limited to only the clans, I bet there will be a lot of IS players that will complain about that they can't lower their drop tonnage to get more cbills. But I actually have no idea at the moment to solve this possible problem.
But anyway, I like it!

Edited by Marodeur, 13 March 2015 - 03:05 AM.