46 replies to this topic

[Ultimax]

627, on 06 March 2015 - 02:13 PM, said:

Chasing quirks is nonsense.

Even without quirks this will be a decent mech. High cap with more or less all energy. So you can get really fast or normal speed with a STD and all the laser vomit you want.

Yes, we were all playing FS9-S, TDR-5SS, TDR-9S, STK-4Ns before there were quirks.

Hunchback Grid Iron has long been the best Hunchback in the game, and people focus fired Dragon 1Ns down fast or suffered the consequences.


Cool story bro.

Tarogato, on 06 March 2015 - 02:56 PM, said:

I'm so glad the 3D needed quirks to be one of the undisputed kings of the battlefield for so long. =P

1) You seem to have no clue where the energy hardpoints are, you know the things that made it one of the best ridge humpers and also poptarts in the game.

2) I like your comparison of a mech with no quirks in a game with no quirks as an example of not needing quirks, even though now there are quirks and hardly anyone plays the 3D anymore.




Don't let pesky details like an entirely new faction full of power creep, or a metashift (also full of powercreep) based on the implementation of quirks get in the way though.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 06 March 2015 - 03:31 PM.

[FupDup]

LordKnightFandragon, on 06 March 2015 - 03:29 PM, said:

It isnt DoA, just cuz the guns are not dangling 30m above its head doesnt make it Doa....

A Firemoth would be DOA and it has high mounted gun pods....

The Firecrotch's arms would get shot off faster than the Mist Lynx's due to less armor and being unable to be protected by the torso.

[Soy]

Urbie will make it obsolete, so.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 06 March 2015 - 03:30 PM, said:

The Firecrotch's arms would get shot off faster than the Mist Lynx's due to less armor and being unable to be protected by the torso.

Well, that has more to do with the Mist Lynx being slow and having oversized arms.

If the Firemoth has its arms scaled in a "more friendly" manner, it would be as epic as a Lolcust's arms. Those are honestly hard to shoot off.

Edited by Deathlike, 06 March 2015 - 03:37 PM.

[FupDup]

Deathlike, on 06 March 2015 - 03:37 PM, said:

Well, that has more to do with the Mist Lynx being slow and having oversized arms.

If the Firemoth has its arms scaled in a "more friendly" manner, it would be as epic as a Lolcust's arms. Those are honestly hard to shoot off.

The Firecrotch arms aren't going to be as small as the Lolcust's. They're gonna be MLX size or near-MLX size. It'll be ggclose.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 06 March 2015 - 03:38 PM, said:

The Firecrotch arms aren't going to be as small as the Lolcust's. They're gonna be MLX size or near-MLX size. It'll be ggclose.

I still think it can hillhump, but then again it's 20 tons... so lol.

Edit: Quirk info is available now, and the Zeus has Awesome-level armor buffs. I am concerned.

Edited by Deathlike, 06 March 2015 - 03:42 PM.

[Greenjulius]

Grasshopper quirks are out... 12.5% heat gen reduction on two models, plus tons of armor / structure quirks for the arms, legs, CT and STs.

The hopper is gonna be one tough mech!
Quirks!

Zeus ZEU-6S{R} and ZEU-6S

Spoiler

Quirks:
• Additional Armor (CT) +15
  
• Additional Armor (LT) +17
  
• Additional Armor (RT) +17
  
• Additional Armor (LL) +17
  
• Additional Armor (RL) +17
  
• Ballistic Range +10%
  
• Ballistic Cooldown +12.5%
  
• Missile Range +12.5%
  
• AC/5 Range +10%

Zeus ZEU-6T

Spoiler

Quirks:
• Additional Armor (CT) +15
  
• Additional Armor (LT) +17
  
• Additional Armor (RT) +17
  
• Additional Armor (LL) +17
  
• Additional Armor (RL) +17
  
• Energy Range +10%
  
• Missile Range +12.5%
  
• Missile Cooldown +12.5%
  
• PPC Range +10%

Zeus ZEU-9S

Spoiler

Quirks:
• Additional Armor (CT) +15
  
• Additional Armor (LT) +17
  
• Additional Armor (RT) +17
  
• Additional Armor (LL) +17
  
• Additional Armor (RL) +17
  
• Energy Range +10%
  
• Energy Cooldown +12.5%
  
• Missile Range +12.5%
  
• ER Large Laser Range +10%

Grasshopper GHR-5J{R} and GHR-5J

Spoiler

Quirks:
• Acceleration Rate (Low, Med, High Speed) +10%
  
• Additional Armor (LA) +11
  
• Additional Armor (RA) +11
  
• Additional Armor (LL) +15
  
• Additional Armor (RL) +15
  
• Additional Structure (CT) +11
  
• Energy Cooldown +10%
  
• Energy Heat Generation -12.5%
  
• ER Large Laser Cooldown +10%
  
• AMS Range +10%

Grasshopper GHR-5H

Spoiler

Quirks:
• Acceleration Rate (Low, Med, High Speed) +10%
  
• Additional Armor (LA) +11
  
• Additional Armor (RA) +11
  
• Additional Armor (LL) +15
  
• Additional Armor (RL) +15
  
• Additional Structure (CT) +11
  
• Energy Cooldown +10%
  
• Energy Heat Generation -12.5%
  
• Missile Cooldown +12.5%
  
• Medium Laser Cooldown +10%

Grasshopper GHR-5N

Spoiler

Quirks:
• Acceleration Rate (Low, Med, High Speed) +10%
  
• Additional Armor (LA) +11
  
• Additional Armor (RA) +11
  
• Additional Armor (LL) +15
  
• Additional Armor (RL) +15
  
• Additional Structure (LT) +9
  
• Additional Structure (RT) +9
  
• Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +7.5%
  
• Energy Cooldown +12.5%
  
• Energy Heat Generation -10%
  
• PPC Heat Generation -10%

Edited by Greenjulius, 06 March 2015 - 03:48 PM.

[Deathlike]

Greenjulius, on 06 March 2015 - 03:42 PM, said:

Grasshopper quirks are out... 12.5% heat gen reduction on two models, plus tons of armor / structure quirks for the arms, legs, CT and STs.

The hopper is gonna be one tough *****!

RIP Cataphract (2012-2014). Overnerfed prematurely and by default is automatically surpassed by the next mech in line.

May Hoverjets™ lift you across tiny rocks.

[FupDup]

Deathlike, on 06 March 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

I still think it can hillhump, but then again it's 20 tons... so lol.

Edit: Quirk info is available now, and the Zeus has Awesome-level armor buffs. I am concerned.

Those quirks are mostly underwhelming IMO, especially the weapon ones. 10% PPC range and 12.5% missile range lol...

The ZEU-9S will easily be the "least bad" of the bunch, for pretty obvious reasons (ERLL range, energy range, energy cooldown).

Edited by FupDup, 06 March 2015 - 03:49 PM.

[Soy]

Fire Moth would take a **** on a Locust, good grief.

[aniviron]

Wow, those quirks. Power creep in action.

Quirks were meant to lift underperforming mechs to the same status as mechs that were already good without quirks. Now we're starting to see with the KGC, ENF, PNT, ZEU, and GHR that instead of waiting to see if a mech needs quirking, it just comes with them by default; but of course, who would buy a mech without quirks? After all, who plays Jenners, Victors, Cataphracts, and Shadowhawks anymore? Why would you when you can play a mech that's almost the same, but generates -25% heat?

So okay, you have to give new mechs quirks because literally every mech has them now, even though that defeats the point of the quirks system's stated goal. But who's going to buy the Zeus when the Awesome gets +40 internal structure? So okay, you need to make sales, give the Zeus +47. But why stop there, you can sell even more if you give it +47 armor instead, now that's an idea!

Of course, I have a hard time believing that the Zeus is such an abysmal mech that it needed +47 armor on the torsi. If you make a mech and it's so much worse than the Awesome that it needs not only a bigger health boost, but it needs it as armor instead of structure, maybe it's time to go back and redesign the model or the hitboxes.

[Evan20k]

At this point, I have to ask; did people think the TBR or SCR was DOA before it was released as well? Seriously, every time a mech comes out, there's at least one thread predicting it will end up being sold for modules.

[FupDup]

Evan20k, on 06 March 2015 - 04:15 PM, said:

At this point, I have to ask; did people think the TBR or SCR was DOA before it was released as well? Seriously, every time a mech comes out, there's at least one thread predicting it will end up being sold for modules.

Most people expected the Crow to be one of the better Clan robbits. The Mad Cat had mixed expectations, most of which hinged on how the hitboxes would be handled. There was also a brief period of immense fear over the impending 2 ERPPC + Gauss poptart build...which actually become a real build for a while until JJs got nerfed into the ground in response.

[Ultimax]

Evan20k, on 06 March 2015 - 04:15 PM, said:

At this point, I have to ask; did people think the TBR or SCR was DOA before it was released as well? Seriously, every time a mech comes out, there's at least one thread predicting it will end up being sold for modules.

Actually there were people talking about how the Stormcrow didn't have JJs and the Timber Wolf "only" had 25-27 tons available.


I'm sure if you dig back to when they released detailed info on the preorder page, you could probably dig up some hysterically bad predictions.

[Evan20k]

Kinda like how the grasshopper has mixed expectations now? I dunno, it seems slim and is packing decent armor for its size. I think it's going to be solid.

Zeus, I want to pilot it before I form opinions. Still looks like a better Victor at a glance though.

[InRev]

aniviron, on 06 March 2015 - 04:07 PM, said:

Of course, I have a hard time believing that the Zeus is such an abysmal mech that it needed +47 armor on the torsi. If you make a mech and it's so much worse than the Awesome that it needs not only a bigger health boost, but it needs it as armor instead of structure, maybe it's time to go back and redesign the model or the hitboxes.

FWIW, its weapon quirks are so bad that I guess it balances out?

Here's how I sum up my opinion about the Zeus quirks:

I'm going to stick to my Awesome.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gyrok, on 06 March 2015 - 01:57 PM, said:

All the torso hardpoints are low, as predicted:



Hitboxes look ok, however, you have to clear half the mech to shoot anything.

Should have gotten BK instead...

Yes if peek and potarting were all there was to MWO; it might be DoA.

Or it could be a dang fine brawler.

Also, 2 variants have 2 energy hardpoints in the STs. We have no info on how high or low those will be.

As ever, calling DoA before it drops? Pure foolishness.

[Tarogato]

aniviron, on 06 March 2015 - 04:07 PM, said:

Wow, those quirks. Power creep in action.

Quirks were meant to lift underperforming mechs to the same status as mechs that were already good without quirks. Now we're starting to see with the KGC, ENF, PNT, ZEU, and GHR that instead of waiting to see if a mech needs quirking, it just comes with them by default; but of course, who would buy a mech without quirks? After all, who plays Jenners, Victors, Cataphracts, and Shadowhawks anymore? Why would you when you can play a mech that's almost the same, but generates -25% heat?

So okay, you have to give new mechs quirks because literally every mech has them now, even though that defeats the point of the quirks system's stated goal. But who's going to buy the Zeus when the Awesome gets +40 internal structure? So okay, you need to make sales, give the Zeus +47. But why stop there, you can sell even more if you give it +47 armor instead, now that's an idea!

Of course, I have a hard time believing that the Zeus is such an abysmal mech that it needed +47 armor on the torsi. If you make a mech and it's so much worse than the Awesome that it needs not only a bigger health boost, but it needs it as armor instead of structure, maybe it's time to go back and redesign the model or the hitboxes.

I endorse this post.

PGI needs to take a step back and look at the numbers they're putting on these quirks.

Before quirks: some mechs are stronger than others.
Goal of quirks: make the underperforming mechs as strong as the strongest mechs.

...

What PGI did instead: use quirks to make the underperforming mechs become the strongest mechs.
The result: mechs that were previously the best without quirks, now need quirks to compete with the mechs that got quirks. All mechs are stronger. Power creep. TTK goes way down. Everything gets one-shotted and people spend more time hiding in cover instead of actually fighting. Amount of fun had diminishes. People quit playing.

[Insects]

Tarogato, on 06 March 2015 - 05:52 PM, said:

What PGI did instead: use quirks to make the underperforming mechs become the strongest mechs.
The result: mechs that were previously the best without quirks, now need quirks to compete with the mechs that got quirks. All mechs are stronger. Power creep. TTK goes way down. Everything gets one-shotted and people spend more time hiding in cover instead of actually fighting. Amount of fun had diminishes. People quit playing.

So Grasshopper is going to be better than Timberwolf?
That's the benchmark. Clan mechs are originally supposed to be better from TT and dropping them at full power into this game is what triggered the need for quirk power creep.

TDR was one case where it was taken to crazy levels as a quick attempt to give IS a weapon against clan range in CW.
But otherwise things are balancing out OK.

[XX Sulla XX]

No it not DoA. Should be a solid mech. Will know more when I get to use one.