121 replies to this topic

[TexAce]

When Im piloting an assault, I am the battering ram. On my own Im useless. Carry me to the door I need to smash in and I'll smash it to pieces. I cant defend myself more than any other mech because what I have in armor others have in speed.

So use me wisely, protect me and I will protect you and smash every face in I see.

[Mystere]

BellatorMonk, on 07 March 2015 - 06:23 PM, said:

Problem is the discussion depends on the map terrain and overall team makeup.

Bingo!

Strategy is a system of expedients ... in accordance with continually changing situations.

- Helmuth von Moltke

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

It's not so much the weight class as the build that determines role.

That said, generally an assault should be built for some kind of direct combat role. To do otherwise is to waste a lot of armor and agro draw. Even an LRM assault should have enough backup weapons to cover the 180m blind spot.

Typically, an assault should be the center of a push. Heavies often have similar firepower, but always have much less durability, and should generally serve as seconds to the assaults (either hold their flanks or intermingle with them). Mediums, being significantly more fragile, need to be the second line of the attack, as they're the primary glass cannons of MWO. They also have the mobility to join the engagement after it's started, and to exploit any positional advantages that might present themselves. Lights typically build for maximum speed and can serve as skirmishers who disrupt the enemy formation (rushing through and past the enemy to get some to turn and chase just before your big guys push), or as light cavalry (hitting flanks and rear armor while the enemy is preoccupied with your heavier assets).

For the assault to do its job, several conditions need to be met. First, the assault drivers need to man up and do it. Second, the team overall needs to be willing to act, and to act decisively. It's a truism that a poor plan executed with aggression and follow-through is infinitely superior to the best plan in the world executed with trepidation and timidity. Third, the team overall needs to watch the map. Assaults often take a while to get into position, and once they make a move they're committed, and the team with them. Watching for enemy lights or fast mediums having a go at light cavalry actions is crucial, as is avoiding having your team outrun your assaults and letting the bulk of your team's tonnage die to overwhelming numbers.

VOIP should make all of the above much easier in PUG play. You can use it to call attacks, or warn that you're isolated and need a chance to catch up. It's most valuable, perhaps, for calling target letter codes and chassis types.

Another thing that assaults are good at is serving as an anvil for a fast flank attack, or holding a line while the team regroups in the face of an enemy attack. They can't do it for long, given how much firepower a 12-man team brings to bear, but a good assault pilot who knows how to take hits can survive focused fire for more than enough time to let your team regain the initiative and counter attack.

Things an assault generally shouldn't do? Run pure LRM builds, run XLs in things like Atlases and Stalkers (it's risky in other assaults, but not straight-up suicide if you know what you're doing), or go off on your own and try to turn a flank or cap points solo. Even a fast assault is going to fall well behind the fast heavies, let alone most medium and nearly all light builds.

[Alistair Winter]

The lack of consensus in this thread is amusing, and a very good illustration of why game design shouldn't be left to democracy.

It's a simple question about one of the most fundamental aspects of the game, yet there's a bunch of completely different answers. I wouldn't be surprised if we had 50 different answers by the time this thread had 100 replies.

I very much disagree with the notion that assault mechs are the second line attackers, by the way. When you push in a medium mech, your armor melts real fast. Meanwhile, it takes some time for assault mechs to get into position to draw enemy fire, and most disciplined mechwarriors will want to finish destroying the damaged first line of attack before moving on to the second line. If there's a number of fast medium and heavy mechs rushing your position, you don't ignore them to deal with the assault mechs further back. You either hold your ground and kill off the first targets or, if outnumbered, retreat to the point where the first line is still visible, but the second line is not. Typically, this means the defenders are retreating around the corner while the second line attackers are unable to move in fast enough to support their first line.

If the assault mechs push first, supported by harassing light mechs, then medium mechs and heavy mechs are able to support the assault mechs far faster than if you switched roles. That's just basic arithmetic.

I understand that assault mechs can't really pull back if they're outnumbered, but no one should be rushing an enemy position without either having the full team behind them (in which case, you'll never be outnumbered) or without proper scouting and awareness of the enemy position (in which case, you'll never be outnumbered). If you rush into a position without proper preparation, a medium and heavy mech is usually as dead as the assault mech. The extra speed rarely makes up for the lack of armour and the fragile XL engine. Especially since medium and heavy mechs are frickin huge in this game, and TTK is lower than ever.

TL;DR - In the solo queue, very few pilots seem to think they belong in the category of people who should be attacking first.

[One Last Byte]

If you're in the solo queue, my view is that an assault's job is to be a walking distraction. You should try to call pushes and be at the front of them, if not just behind the front. If you can do around 400+ damage and take a couple enemy mechs down with you while taking the brunt of the enemy fire, you're doing a good job. IMO if you make such a good distraction that you go down but you beat the enemy team 12-1, then you are an equal if not better assault pilot than the one that sits back, scores over 1000 damage, but is the last one left with a fresh mech and loses. Some mechs (like the Victor) have more specialized roles, but generally speaking if you're piloting your STD- or Clan XL-engine, run-of-the-mill, wreck-your-face assault, this still applies.

The bottom line: You should lead pushes, or if you bring a sniping loadout, you should piss the enemy team off enough to the point that they move out of position to kill you, leaving them vulnerable for your team.

This advice (or opinion) applies more directly to the solo queue where your team probably doesn't have a homogeneous set of builds, but I still generally view this as an assault's role in group queue.

Edited by One Last Byte, 07 March 2015 - 07:38 PM.

[Zen Idiot]

the 9 to 5 at the garrison, a wife and a few screaming commandos...
.... Oh, sorry. got confused.

[LordNothing]

front line unit in an optimal formation. where an optimal formation is:

all your assaults are in a line abrest formation, with at least one direct fire heavy on each side of the line to protect the flank, and mediums in the tail protecting the formation (along with heavy support mechs like catapults), with the lights out front doing recon. in this formation all front line mechs should be able to hit a forward target at the same time without hitting any friendlies.

of course ive only ever seen such formations in cw (but usually with heavies sitting in for assaults with the rest being mediums and lights). any other mode what you get is the team fighting over optimal position and using eachother for cover. i hate seeing assaults in the rear, that is no place for a large mech. stalkers in particluar are not support mechs and should be skirmishers instead.

you might also have an assault with a couple of support mechs doing hunter killer operations, or as base attackers (usually with a larger battle happening elsewhere).

tldr: assaults need to be in the middle of combat, not off to the rear lerming. it should either be finding something to shoot or shooting at something and it should always be the focus of a formation.

[Sarlic]

I like to keep it simple.

Assaults are the cornerstone of your team. Play around them.

Yes, it's that simple.

Unfortunatly most people dont acknowledge this nor have the right builds to be a cornerstone when they're driving a Assault.

Edited by Sarlic, 08 March 2015 - 07:19 AM.

[Proteaus]

I would think an assualt mech get into the area it is ordered to get into , Then control that area , with proper support of course .

[Jman5]

Alistair Winter, on 07 March 2015 - 07:02 PM, said:

The lack of consensus in this thread is amusing, and a very good illustration of why game design shouldn't be left to democracy.

It's a simple question about one of the most fundamental aspects of the game, yet there's a bunch of completely different answers. I wouldn't be surprised if we had 50 different answers by the time this thread had 100 replies.

My main goal in starting this thread was less about finding one right answer and more about getting people to think about what it means to pilot an assault. To get people into the mindset that assault mechs have concrete responsibilities that can be measured.

While there may not be a single unifying consensus here, there are some common themes popping up in several different posts. For example, because an assault mech generally brings the most firepower to a match, they should be expected to do an outsized chunk of the team's damage.

Edited by Jman5, 08 March 2015 - 07:27 AM.

[Alienized]

when assault mechs are boated with lrms instead of having a mix so they can still fulfill their assaulting role...
then the whine is loud.
there is a reason why mechs like the stalker had srms and medium lasers and not only lrm's. it is slow. so it has lrms to support the faster mechs further at the front because it is so slow.
then once it arrived it keeps moving and uses his medium lasers and srm's to keep the movement alive while the mechs with damaged parts can stay behind while still giving firesupport to the now frontline assault.

that was the original concept that is barely used in here because it is much harder to use than a simple lrm boat and as Alistair Winter noted:

alot of people dont even think about of attacking and then wonder why everything goes down the drain.
there is lots of wasted potential currently. SMR's still hit hard even unquirked. medium lasers are still running cool (at least for the IS) without lots of quirks.
why do you waste that all that potential? if you have a weakend enemy up close around a corner at 130m you simply cant kill it with a lrm boat. it can flee and get a better position. a assault built after the original concept can move in and finish things that are softened up by the lrms.

then also, alot of assaults try to run away. you arent meant to run away... you should turn around and fight while the mediums and lights crush into possible sides (which i know barely happens as well because of nascar....)
buildign a tough firing line is something nasty but you need to stand your ground under fire.

[Tahribator]

You should be at the front taking and dealing hits. Not somewhere in a ditch lobbing LRMs or 500m behind lines trying to snipe. That's all.

[Bishop Steiner]

Jman5, on 07 March 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

We often hear assault players telling the the team that he was "left them behind" or wasn't "supported". It seems from their perspective that our role in the game is to be their escort. However one thing that isn't ever discussed is what responsibility the assault players have to the team?

I think it's only fair that if assault players can demand things from their team we in turn should demand things from our assault players.

Everyone can outline the primary roles of a light mech, but what about on the other end of the spectrum? What are the general duties of an assault mech? High damage numbers? Survivability? Leading the charge? All of the above? Perhaps some assault players can chime in and talk about what they think their role is in any given game.

Well, that would kinda depend on the Mech and Build, now wouldn't it?

[Yosharian]

Jman5, on 07 March 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

We often hear assault players telling the the team that he was "left them behind" or wasn't "supported". It seems from their perspective that our role in the game is to be their escort. However one thing that isn't ever discussed is what responsibility the assault players have to the team?

I think it's only fair that if assault players can demand things from their team we in turn should demand things from our assault players.

Everyone can outline the primary roles of a light mech, but what about on the other end of the spectrum? What are the general duties of an assault mech? High damage numbers? Survivability? Leading the charge? All of the above? Perhaps some assault players can chime in and talk about what they think their role is in any given game.

This post assumes that all assaults do the same job.

[Ian Joshua]

My responsibilities (as I see them):

1) When we are in the tunnel - and you push past me to be at the front - and right at the exit point when you suddenly become afraid of death - I am the guy at the back - trying to push his way to the front - yelling at you to keep going or we are all going to die.

2) When you all decide to crowd up at a corner and start to peek around the corner one mech at a time - even though you know there is a full enemy lance on the other side - several times in a row - eventually being dead and not making any headway - i am the guy at the back - yelling at all of you to keep moving or we are all going to die - trying to push forward so i can boldly walk around the corner and lay down some damage (usually to find that nobody followed me)

3) When you all decide that the middle circle of death in terra firma is the place to be - and you run to the front as fast as you can - and then stop at a choke point right before you cross over - i am the guy at the back - trying to push my way forward - yelling at all of you to keep moving or we are all going to die.

Hmmm I am starting to see a pattern develop.

[Mystere]

Jman5, on 08 March 2015 - 07:26 AM, said:

My main goal in starting this thread was less about finding one right answer and more about getting people to think about what it means to pilot an assault. To get people into the mindset that assault mechs have concrete responsibilities that can be measured.

While there may not be a single unifying consensus here, there are some common themes popping up in several different posts. For example, because an assault mech generally brings the most firepower to a match, they should be expected to do an outsized chunk of the team's damage.

As it turns out, that is not in question. What is in question is how, where, and when to do that.

[El Bandito]

Mystere, on 08 March 2015 - 08:13 AM, said:

As it turns out, that is not in question. What is in question is how, where, and when to do that.

Not difficult to answer.

How--By packing firepower unmatched by other classes. (except when you are unable, such as the Gargoyle)

Where--Depending on the weapon loadouts and mech chassis. An Atlas/Highlander with AC20 and SRMs should obviously be in the front of the blob, but a Direwhale/King Crab boating C/UACs should be behind the initial line, and preferably to the sides. Stalkers/1Ss/8Rs with LRMs should stay right behind the initial line and support overhead.

When--Whenever the enemy appears under your cross-hairs. The enemy should always regret that decision.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 March 2015 - 08:22 AM.

[Mad Strike]

Well for me theres no specific responsibility now since it varies with the chassi:

Atlas is a brawler that can lead deathball pushes , the Hero variant is a flanker.

Stalker can be a monster on 1 vs 1 assault fights since it has more firepower but in can be easly flanked .
At an Atlas side you have less agro and can unleash all that weaponry without problem. It can be a good support with LRM boats.

Battlemaster is a skirmisher with one variant for support.

Victor is a close range direct fire support that can flank and outmaneuver the enemy easly in urban combat.

Banshee is one hell of a brawler , hands down , so you can use it in the same way has the Atlas or even better on that specific situation.

King Crab is a balistic niche mech: It's not made for long range , neither for close but it excells on the 500-270 range with UAC5s and AC20s....some weirdos use it has an LRM platform but....there are better mechs for that (stalker).

Warhawk and Direwolf even don't have the brawling capacity of IS mechs but can deliver a very painful punch at distances so by the time you have the enemy at close range you just need to finish it.

Maybe i'm missing some other units but at least that's how they worked based on my experience playing them.

Edited by strikebrch, 08 March 2015 - 08:31 AM.

[Yokaiko]

Sarlic, on 08 March 2015 - 07:15 AM, said:

I like to keep it simple.

Assaults are the cornerstone of your team. Play around them.

Yes, it's that simple.

Unfortunatly most people dont acknowledge this nor have the right builds to be a cornerstone when they're driving a Assault.

I usually run to the assaults when playing small mechs.

.....right up till I see an LRM launch, then I they are on their own.

[Zypher]

They have no purpose in MWO, they would excel in close range brawling, but there is almost no place in a game where an assault can sit with it's short range weapons primed without the enemy coming from a different direction negating all it's advantages. MWO is about peak abo, alpha, and mobility, heavies just do an all round better job. A lot of this is due to the lack of objectives in the game, or at least the ability to defend and important objective in cover or in a choke point.

Back in the day with MWLL, you would see assaults park behind a wall at a capture point and wait, in some cases single handedly taking out multiple opponents. The best was to deal with it was with other close ranged assaults that could turn a corner and duke it out.

Assaults are a liability generally speaking, a decent enemy knows how to pick them a part without ever being in their cross hairs. The most successful assaults are usually so because of their team first, and their skill second.