191 replies to this topic

[Creovex]

Sorry, not quoting 2010 or before... game wasn't around then

[A Large Infant]

So how does buying all 3 models increase the top speed of one? I would think more time in a single model would lead to greater "tweaks" of that model

[Creovex]

Meeso Thorny, on 10 March 2015 - 04:57 AM, said:

So how does buying all 3 models increase the top speed of one? I would think more time in a single model would lead to greater "tweaks" of that model

I share the same engine between my between variants so.... makes sense for me

Edited by Creovex, 10 March 2015 - 05:01 AM.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Kill stealing is an art form....

[Bigbacon]

not nearly as bad as the grind in say....World of Tanks. That game you pretty much need to buy your way into advancement pretty much once you get into tier 5

[El Bandito]

Bigbacon, on 10 March 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:

not nearly as bad as the grind in say....World of Tanks. That game you pretty much need to buy your way into advancement pretty much once you get into tier 5

Which is why you do not see me playing WoT. Only reason I am still here is cause I love BT, and I spent over $100. For freebie casuals who do not give two C-Bills about BT lore, the grind will feel heavier.

Edited by El Bandito, 10 March 2015 - 05:13 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Meeso Thorny, on 10 March 2015 - 04:48 AM, said:

"Dodge Charger (2006–2010) shares the LX platform with the Chrysler 300, the newer third-generation Dodge Challenger, and the discontinued Dodge Magnum."

But driving a Magnum doesn't give you familiarity with the bells and whistles on a Challenger.

[El Bandito]

Creovex, on 10 March 2015 - 04:37 AM, said:

Stop pretending you are worried about new players. I got 2 friends started in the game last month and they aren't complaining. Grinding is a norm in all MMOs... get comfortable with it or give up video games.

Only class that has any right to complain are the Lights who don't have ECM.

Since you bought all the packs, you have no right to say the grind is fine. Anyone can say the grind is fine if he drops $1000 in a single game.

Edited by El Bandito, 10 March 2015 - 05:38 AM.

[A Large Infant]

I think the main reason this game is still going, despite PGI's best attempts at ruining it, is the strength of the intellectual property. BattleTech is just too cool and has so many that love it, that we put up with this unbalanced repetitive grindfest.

Joseph Mallan, on 10 March 2015 - 05:16 AM, said:

But driving a Magnum doesn't give you familiarity with the bells and whistles on a Challenger.

Driving a LRM-boat doesn't give you familiarity with the bells and whistles on a ballistic build, either

[jackal40]

Maccasimus, on 10 March 2015 - 02:14 AM, said:

What do you guys even expect? If they gave you the sorts of rewards you want for playing average, imagine the rewards the top players would be getting. There'd be absolutely no reason for premium time what so ever.

So you're an average player? Then you get average rewards. That's how it works. Stop treating this GAME like a JOB. Expecting to be paid by the hour.

So how do you expect to keep the average and terribad players for these great players to farm off of? I've given up playing for a bit because these rewards are so low. Seems like no matter what you as a player do - there isn't much of an incentive to continue playing.

IMO, the grind is the biggest problem. When I played WoT, the grind wasn't this bad - I ended up with several top tier tanks and still had fun playing at all levels. In MWO, I can't stay interested in playing for more than 1 or 2 matches.

It just sucks - I want to have fun playing stompy robots.

[N0MAD]

Taffer, on 10 March 2015 - 02:05 AM, said:

Ah yes of course, I have to put on my luck pants and kill half the enemy team if I want to get over 200k. But wait, that's ridiculously hard to do. Why can't my actual ass kicking (damage done) give me this much? Why is it so important that I nab the actual kills?

What really sucks is that you know a lot of people aren't even doing that good. That must mean the average player is making JACK **** right? My friends are casuals and they hardly get cbills.

I have a friend that went so far as buying a hero mech (muromets) because the grind is so bad. The grind is STILL awful for him because 30% of 30,60,100k doesn't really mean much. It takes him forever to buy anything and the game gets stale. He can barely afford to even experiment with his mechs buying new weapons and stuff.


So just tell my casual MWO buddies to buy premium time right? Fat chance. They are not going to waste money on premium time. It burns away while they don't play and the 50% is just not impressive considering the average earnings. How do you expect them to ever buy mech bays? Okay so just BUY the mechs with actual money right? Well no, they aren't going for it. It's just too much. They can just buy new games for those kinds of prices. And really, they aren't too interested in throwing money at what they already consider a boring game.

I didn't really want to get into this, but **** it I'm ranting. We are BORED, so CW should be fun right? SOmething different to do? Well **** we hate it. It takes a ridiculous amount of time to find a match and when we do we get stomped. It's even MORE a waste of time in terms of earning cbills. What a disappointment. We aren't competitive we aren't 12 guys. My friends are casuals. We get wrecked in group queue just fine, but CW is miserable.

In the end, what you have here, what PGI has created is a HARDCORE game that shits on new or casual players and turns them away. I'm hopelessly hooked on this game for some reason, so it has been kinda pushing me away from my normal gaming buddies and I think that sucks. I guess it's 'niche', it is what it is, but they want to like it to. They have given the game a fair chance several times and they always wind up with the same conclusion, it gets stale because it's too grindy. If it wasn't so grindy, they could buy new mechs and things to keep it from getting stale.

Know where youre coming from brother..
Most of my long term gaming friends wont play MWO for alot of reasons,, but as a very recent example of the grind debate i will tell you a story..
Max my son (i have 2), 18yo games to much very competitive max ranks etc etc in a lot of games plays comp lvls little sh it is to good , Plays LOL, GW, heap FPS shooters etc..
Never could get him to play MW probably sick of me talking about it for his entire life..Had a Friend visit me from UK (im Aussie), gaming friend i know and play with for 10 years + in interwebs..so while hes here Max gets the idea he might play with me, i have alt IS acount not big but ok, so max starts playing, account has couple lights couple heavys a DDC, he wants a dragon being the meta player he is, enough $ to buy one set it up with weaps DHS,, now for people saying learning curve in MWO is hard.... hahaha..within 6 to 10 games max is racking up 2 to 4 kills half dozen assists or so averaging 120K + decent XP...
within 3-4 days play hes got his pilot tree going not bad Decent bank, then he starts looking at module prices and comments "they serious?". Day or two later (note he played maybe couple hours a day maybe bit less) hes getting bit peeved cause hes just figured out hes goto buy 2 more dragons to master the first one. Money was ok as far as buying next chassis but xp grind to master a single chassis was getting to him, but he played some more.
Now ima clanner and he wanted to play comp lvl with us which i told him was CW, so he needed to buy Clans... then he realized he needed 4 mechs for CW he needed them mastered, weapons, modules, hes good with math, did some and said, you goto be kidding me. He went back to his games...
Now for those of you who gona say.. no stamina... he has a God walking amongst mere mortals tag in GW some of you will know what that means.. and HE IS the typical Steam Kid, that tell you anything?


ohhh nearly forgot...
Tell him to pay $120 for a mech pack to play a beta CW game mode, he just laugh,, you know what the Steam kids pay for full AAA games?...

Edited by N0MAD, 10 March 2015 - 06:04 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Meeso Thorny, on 10 March 2015 - 05:18 AM, said:

I think the main reason this game is still going, despite PGI's best attempts at ruining it, is the strength of the intellectual property. BattleTech is just too cool and has so many that love it, that we put up with this unbalanced repetitive grindfest.



Driving a LRM-boat doesn't give you familiarity with the bells and whistles on a ballistic build, either

Not many Mechs only carry Missiles either.

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 March 2015 - 04:47 AM, said:

Those don't mean much to my experience with the game. "The Grind" is what this game is about. battle after battle after battle until the enemy is finished. Then its on to the next enemy and endless battle. What the game needs is something more than fighting, More pay and more XP are not the answer.

Jo, tell me this. How many mechs do you have in your garage? How many different mech chassis did you master during these 3 years? Since you do not purchase mech bays and mostly pilot Atlases, as I recall, I'm guessing the answer is "very few". You simply have no reason to grind in the first place.

Most players do not play it like you, mate.

Edited by El Bandito, 10 March 2015 - 06:07 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

El Bandito, on 10 March 2015 - 06:05 AM, said:

Jo, tell me this. How many mechs do you have in your garage? How many different mech chassis did you master during these 3 years? Since you do not purchase mech bays and mostly pilot Atlases, as I recall, "very few" is the likely answer. You simply have no reason to grind in the first place.

Most players do not play it like you, mate.

Im grinding 4 new mechs right now. Well two of four.

As for how I play. What does the grind do for me anyway? There is nothing for me to play the game for except kills and wins. I'd say I want more added to the game to keep me interested than some trying to grind a mech.

[Johnny Z]

Creovex, on 10 March 2015 - 02:45 AM, said:

With premium time you average 200k - 350k per a match which means at your worst in 5 matches you get 1 millions cbills..

Without premium you get about 100k to 200k which means it take a minimal of 10 matches to get that 1 million cbills...

Do feel like you are getting that much??? Buy a pack early, get free premium and wahoo! Or buy some Premium time boosters.

I just spent 40 million the other day on mech and played enough on Friday/Saturday/Sunday to already make 9 million back (45 matches / 3 days = 15 per a day, most lasting around 10 mins so little over 2 hours per a day)

This is why the credits per match wont go up by much. The earnings per match may be on the low side but with premium time and prime/hero mech bonus the credits are excellent.

Doesnt make sense that the would take the premium time prime/hero mech bonuses out of game or make earnings so high they would be worthless.

On a related note, +1 for repair and rearm.

Edited by Johnny Z, 10 March 2015 - 06:33 AM.

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 March 2015 - 06:09 AM, said:

Im grinding 4 new mechs right now. Well two of four.

As for how I play. What does the grind do for me anyway? There is nothing for me to play the game for except kills and wins. I'd say I want more added to the game to keep me interested than some trying to grind a mech.

Right, and the monotony of glorified arena death matches only serves to amplify the grind.

[DustySkunk]

Anecdotes and metaphors aside, there is a problem here.

Rewards vary greatly right now, and it isn't always clear why. Many players look to damage as a measure of performance, but this may be the most ambiguous means of measurement currently in the game (next to match score which is calculated using voodoo magic apparently). The truth is, not all damage is created equal. Two different players can both do 1000 points of damage. However, depending on how that damage was distributed during the match, one can make significantly more c-bills than the other. Rewards 2.0 makes this possible, and I generally count this as a good thing.

However, Rewards 2.0 doesn't adequately reward a number of actions that players do to help win a game. For that matter, currently the c-bill rewards for wins and losses are almost negligible. My personal thought is that it shouldn't take more than 10 wins or 20 losses to earn 1 million c-bills, irrespective of match performance/premium time.

I'd like to see a minimum payout for these for a win or a loss (provided there is adequate participation) that is only exceeded if your performance merits it. Specifically, minimum earnings of 100k c-bills for a win, 50k for a loss provided you spectate to the end of a match. Requiring participation in the form of spectating makes it highly unprofitable to game the system by suicide rushing to farm c-bills.

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Examples:

Player "A" gets in his trial mech and finds himself in a bad position (easy newbie mistake) and gets focused to death in the first minute of the match. He spectates the match to the end and his team wins. He would have earned 40k c-bills, instead he gets 100k as his performance hasn't exceeded the minimum c-bill payout and he participated adequately.

Player "B" also has a bad time in his trial mech and gets focused right away. He dies and quits the match immediately. He wouldn't qualify for the minimum c-bill payout because he did not participate. Instead, he gets what he earned. 40k c-bills.

Player "C" has an excellent game and nets 250k c-bills. She has well above the minimum payout for a win and therefore earns as normal and the minimum doesn't apply.

This system would make the grind for new or less capable players easier to handle, would hopefully be useful as a teaching tool, and wouldn't encourage c-bill farming.

Assuming a perfect 50/50 win loss ratio, the minimum amount of matches to earn 1 million c-bills would be 13.32. Spectating each match, assuming that each match will last on average 8 minutes puts the time period at 107 minutes of play, not including the time to find a match. So, 18 hours of this will net you between 9 and 10 million c-bills.

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My final point here is that regardless of your performance in a match, as long as you are participating you are still investing your time into playing and should be rewarded for doing so. Before you say "dude L2P get gud ggclose uninstall n00b," players who do well will still get their rewards.. Not everyone is here to (or can for that matter) "get gud." However they still have a right to play and have fun. Pokemech is part of that fun.

I've been around for a long time and after almost three years of learning and trying to get better, I'm just now getting to the point where I am consistently happy with my performance in game. I'm just now finishing the process of buying engines for all of my mechs because I couldn't afford them before and had to swap constantly. I know well what it's like to be stuck in the dregs of the grind. It sucks. If I loved Battletech and Mechwarrior any less I would have been long gone by now. If I had to start over, I could... but I really fear for people coming into the game now with no experience and the way the economy is, or for people that just want to have fun with big stompy robots. Right now, unless you "get gud" this game is not the place to do it.

EDIT: Added math

Edited by DustySkunk, 10 March 2015 - 02:13 PM.

[ThirtyOughtSix]

Went on a bender last night with my best mech. Averaged about 130,000 C-Bills (had a few bad matches). 2 hour grind and made about 2 mil. It's rough out there folks. Hang in there.

[Creovex]

El Bandito, on 10 March 2015 - 05:17 AM, said:

Since you bought all the packs, you have no right to say the grind is fine. Anyone can say the grind is fine if he drops $1000 in a single game.

I didn't buy the Phoenix packs if you paid more attention to detail and did play for a period of time on non-premium. To me it took longer then I preferred so I bought premium time.... Just like the mechanic of a F2P game is suppose to work, you want less time, chip in some coin...

And when I started, you didn't get the Cadet Achievements paying out 8 million and other achievements helping you along.

Don't like the Cbills, buy a Hero and/or Premium time. Still not happy with the payout, then maybe there is an issue. However F2P is a choice, pay or don't.... and at least you have access to the same content as premium players

[Kristov Kerensky]

The economy in MWO is a bit slacking when it comes to payouts, that's a fact and we all know it.

That said, the 'grind' is about half of what it is in any OTHER F2P game, including LoL and WoT, where in order to get the top tier goodies, you don't only grind a LOT, you also end up having to spend real money to get the top toys. They aren't called Pay2Win games without reason after all. MWO, you can earn anything but the Heroes, Champions and special Package Mechs which only get you a bonus in cbills and/or special geometry, they aren't Pay2Win, and quite a few of the Package Mechs are actually bad variants. And in MWO you can WIN those Heroes and Champion Mechs in the next event, since PGI does tend to give them away. You can also buy the Clan Mechs with cbills, all of the Wave 1 and most of the Wave 2 are cbill sales currently, no one needs to spend anything extra to get them.

XP is another thing, it can take some people many many drops to get a single Mech Mastered. Double xp weekend was so nice to soooooo many players, they should do it more often..or probably not, since that gives people a taste of how quickly it CAN go if you have Premium time, which naturally inspires them to drop $5 or $10 to get MC to buy Premium time..and...oh, I HAVE to have that camo and..marketing 101 folks, give em a taste, only a taste, they'll pay for the meal.

How many MMO style games are actually on Steam? Quick check shows approx 40 of the same type as MWO in general, Action, Multiplayer, Online, MMO, Windows. Most of them are not F2P, and every single F2P game in the list has a list of things you can buy for real money, and all of them seem to require a purchase to get the top content. I'm thinking MWO will do well enough since it's not a P2W game as the others all seem to be.