191 replies to this topic

[KraftySOT]

I never spent money on WoT either and have all their toy tanks.

Here I have most of the gundams.

F2P is stupid.

[blood4blood]

I think it's balanced pretty well right now, given the limitations, although the actual reward amounts could be increased. Objectively, what's worth more, a big mech with bad aim scouring armor off an enemy for lots of damage (but little effect), or the light mech that comes in and back-armor kills that same enemy with 2-3 precisely aimed shots? It's pretty difficult to account for things like that without having actual situational awareness of every move made in every game, so it make sense to reward both and give a bonus for the solo kill. The change I'd make would be to increase the rewards for both "most damage dealt" and "killing blow" to about 10k each, and leaving the solo kill 10k bonus.

Edited by blood4blood, 10 March 2015 - 09:59 AM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

El Bandito, I know you are a Founder, same as me, but you ACT like you've never spent a dime and hold it against anyone who has, that's how you come across repeatedly.

I have dropped quite a bit on MWO, but that doesn't change the fact that MWO isn't a grind game and you don't NEED to spend a dime to play it and get access to the content. Krafty there claims he's not spent any money on WoT yet has all the tanks, that's rather impressive since you can't GET the top tanks without spending real world money, having someone else gift it to you or getting one of the promo accounts which include everything...so which is it Krafty? Because otherwise...

Payouts in MWO aren't as high as they once were, which is a good thing, because when I could make 10m in a hour after R&R costs, that's a bit silly.

This is a F2P game, there needs to be an incentive for the AVERAGE player to spend some money, so the payout for an average player per drop should be JUST under what's needed to buy a new Mech and equip it every X hours, gives them a reason to buy Premium time or a Mastery Pack or drop some cash on MC to buy a single Mech or a Hero or Champion. Otherwise, they won't spend any money, they don't NEED to in MWO, there's no Pay2Win content, so why spend real cash?

I drop my money on the big Mech packages, I want to invest in the game, give PGI a financial reason to keep working on MWO and make it the game we were told we'd get 3 years ago. I've got the extra cash to blow on this, so I do. My bills are paid, I've got extra money, so I'm fine with dropping a few hundred every month or so, big deal, that's a good dinner out for me. My kids are grown, wives are all ex's, and my grandkids are spoiled just the right amount to appreciate it without being entitled, like so many people here are, so I'll waste my money as I see fit. At least the few hundred I drop here gets me something other than an some stripper's faked attention for an hour, and I GET something for my money here.

[Mott]

Kristov Kerensky, on 10 March 2015 - 10:31 AM, said:

I drop my money on the big Mech packages, I want to invest in the game, give PGI a financial reason to keep working on MWO and make it the game we were told we'd get 3 years ago. I've got the extra cash to blow on this, so I do. My bills are paid, I've got extra money, so I'm fine with dropping a few hundred every month or so, big deal, that's a good dinner out for me. My kids are grown, wives are all ex's, and my grandkids are spoiled just the right amount to appreciate it without being entitled, like so many people here are, so I'll waste my money as I see fit. At least the few hundred I drop here gets me something other than an some stripper's faked attention for an hour, and I GET something for my money here.

I'm fairly well off myself. But for the $$$ you're talking about tossing around, I'll strip for you AND give you my undivided genuine attention.

Big boy.

[Rossario x Vampire]

El Bandito, on 10 March 2015 - 07:36 AM, said:

Since double XP weekend ends officially on Tuesday, you should have received it.

http://mwomercs.com/...-xp-conversion/

This thread is not about XP it's about C-Bills. The only problem what game have atm is - PAULCONOMY.

[FrDrake]

mogs01gt, on 10 March 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

That isnt how you IP grind in LoL. Im not going into how to do it but you are wrong. It takes 6300 to get NEWER toons, you can have a functioning toon for 450. So 4 or 5 games, you could have a good original toon that you can use.

Annie is the only 450 champ I can think of in that bracket, light mechs don't cost that much either.

mogs01gt, on 10 March 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

In LoL, 2 hours is over 800 IP if you are IP farming. I see you dont know how. In 2 hours of MWO, 2mill gets you nothing.


Runes are end game items that increase a roles ability to do its job early game. You dont touch runes until level 30. Certain modules are required to be an effective player, runes only help your early game.


MWO grind is 10x worse than LoL.

I am talking about grinding ranked matches all day, if you want to take into account doing arams or something which has a higher IP per hour ratio then fine, but you then also have to not have sympathy for the guy who doesn't dmg the kill at the end to make sure he get savior kill, or the guy who doesn't press R and get spotting assists and stuff.

[mogs01gt]

FrDrake, on 10 March 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

Annie is the only 450 champ I can think of in that bracket, light mechs don't cost that much either.

http://leagueoflegen...450_IP_champion
Multiple and WW is OP right now

Quote

I am talking about grinding ranked matches all day, if you want to take into account doing arams or something which has a higher IP per hour ratio then fine, but you then also have to not have sympathy for the guy who doesn't dmg the kill at the end to make sure he get savior kill, or the guy who doesn't press R and get spotting assists and stuff.

Stop back pedaling. The discussion is about MWO grind which lead to LoL grind. To gain IP efficiently, you do not play ranked. Ranked is for ranking up, that is it.
Proper IP grind in LoL:
First match of the day(24hrs between first win) should be a bot game to maximize chances of obtaining first win of the day bonus. Bot games take less than 20 minute and typically are 15.
Next you play Dom or ARAM. Dom is preferably since match times are typically 20-25 minutes. ARAM can sometimes go longer than expected.
Once you obtain champs you can carry with, you can switch to those for SR but you're still looking at 30 minute game times.

In MWO, there arent too many ways as a new player to gain Cbills without hero mechs.

Edited by mogs01gt, 10 March 2015 - 11:03 AM.

[Jetfire]

Jman5, on 10 March 2015 - 09:33 AM, said:

I'm not entirely sure how you came to that number, but there are a lot of other rewards out there that are kill-shot independent so I didn't include them. Savior Kills for example can be from kills or assist as long as you knick the mech 10 seconds prior to him dying. Damage taken rewards is a tricky one to design. You can't just pay people for surviving a match or people would wind up hiding after the game is lost. This would be particularly bad in conquest and assault where games can end without killing the enemy completely. You would also need some way to discourage teammates from shooting each other up to rack up the reward in games that are clearly clinched. You would need to introduce a Friendly Fire penalty to the game. -42 cbills per FF damage. Another problem is the assumption that getting your butt whooped by the enemy team is desirable. Is the guy who uselessly ran out into the open, getting shot up and nearly dying doing something valuable? Or did he just do something dumb? Perhaps if you couched it with a proximity requirement. So players who take damage while close to a teammate gets the reward. But dummy who runs out into the open by himself gets nothing.

Sorry, that was a baseline on kills/assists only, of course there are more payout methods and I do really like the new system of rewards.

FF penalties I heartily agree with.

As far as a payout for taking damage it is more of an incentive to encourage mechs that can take damage to do so. 3 DWF's way in the back sniping might be ok if they are crack shots, but they have armor to spare and should be involved in the combat to make the team effective. This wouldn't be the biggest reward, just another incentive to encourage engaging the enemy. You could even make this award subject to a win/lose multiplier to prevent the crazy behavior you state. If it was a huge payout I would agree this would encourage bad behavior but mechs taking 0 damage are rarely, not never, but rarely contributing their utmost to the match and brawlers would be rewarded for the risks they are taking.

[DustySkunk]

Just gonna put this out there... Just because you can drop money in this game doesn't mean the economy isn't borked right now.

I have purchased some level of every package except Phoenix (which I highly regret not doing so). I have 300+ days of premium time I'm burning right now, with more in the bank. I have Founders, Invasion, Resistance and Hero mechs with 30% c-bill bonuses. This does not make me special in any way, nor does it entitle me to anything. I support this game because I love Battletech/Mechwarrior and I want to help keep the lights on at PGI. Even with the bonuses, I still don't feel like I have the freedom to experiment like I want to as all equipment costs c-bills, and I've been doing this a while. As I pointed out in an earlier post, I'm still buying engines for many mechs in my stable from the period of time when I had to swap them constantly.

As the rewards stand now, we don't earn enough. Someone pointed out earlier that depending on how you play, you can game the system and earn 200k c-bills in a light/medium by taking advantage of it even with a very low damage total. They then went on to say everyone complaining on this thread is just QQing.... Everyone who plays this game has a different skill level or a different perspective. Whatever you may think, people are "QQing" in this thread because the grind as it is isn't fun. When you don't have fun, you don't want to play. There are many solutions here that would work, and just because c-bills may not be a problem for you doesn't mean they aren't for others.

I caution people to be aware of old folk syndrome here; the attittude that "if it was good enough for me when I started then it's good enough for everyone now" or "I had to do it, so everyone else should too." If a better, more fun solution can be implemented that improves the experience for everyone then it should be.

One last point: as of now it makes no impact on any other player what someone does or does not earn per match. There is no way to pass c-bills to other players or to trade/auction equipment. There is no repair and rearm. There is no way to buy contracts or spend your c-bills other than for equipment for yourself. Therefore, it has little to no impact on anyone else's game what you do or don't earn.


EDIT: Cadet Bonus and Rewards 2.0 were a step in the right direction. However there are more changes that can be implemented to further improve the system.

Edited by DustySkunk, 10 March 2015 - 11:47 AM.

[RoboPatton]

Hate to be "That -other game- guy" but war-thunder is pretty good at putting the grind on the high tier, and making low tier stuff "feel" faster. Of course, MWO is more complex in pvp aspects, so that may not be applicable. The talisman system is good too, where you can upgrade any vehicle to "hero" status for $, wish they had that here.

Login rewards would be cool, smart thing to do since it is a F2P, IE 10% exp boost consumable for x matches, 10% cbills next match etc etc. Again, it's about "feeling" a bonus.

Also, the roster is pretty big now, and that makes it seem more daunting a task to get it all, for completionists.

Edited by RoboPatton, 10 March 2015 - 11:40 AM.

[FrDrake]

mogs01gt, on 10 March 2015 - 11:03 AM, said:

http://leagueoflegen...450_IP_champion
Multiple and WW is OP right now

Stop back pedaling. The discussion is about MWO grind which lead to LoL grind. To gain IP efficiently, you do not play ranked. Ranked is for ranking up, that is it.
Proper IP grind in LoL:
First match of the day(24hrs between first win) should be a bot game to maximize chances of obtaining first win of the day bonus. Bot games take less than 20 minute and typically are 15.
Next you play Dom or ARAM. Dom is preferably since match times are typically 20-25 minutes. ARAM can sometimes go longer than expected.
Once you obtain champs you can carry with, you can switch to those for SR but you're still looking at 30 minute game times.

In MWO, there arent too many ways as a new player to gain Cbills without hero mechs.

Yea, WW is some fun, I've had him so long forgot he was so cheap.

So to grind IP I play a mode I don't care about, and wait for my first win of the day bonus. If I play the game how I want to play then I make IP much more slowly.

How is that different from this game exactly? If you want more cbills you play conquest, you win, and you make sure to maximize your payout from the criteria (pressing R, making sure to get savior kills, getting all your assists).

I made an entirely free2play MWO account which I play when they give things away etc. Let me go log into it and see how many cbills/match I've made on that one, I'll be right back with the edit on it. That account never had the "good ole days" economy or any paid for premium, though I did wait to get free premium to use on its cadet bonus.


*Edit* So it looks like I average 130k cbills on my alt account. This account started by using trials. Let's say I've only managed to play 6 games an hour, that puts me at 98 hours played on this account. I have a full set of Timber Wovles and StormCrows, as well as Atlases and Jenners and an XL 300. I sold 2 of the extra Atlases and just kept the DDC. This account also has 18 mechbays now and I've spent $0 on it. PGI gives stuff away all the time.

I don't have any modules yet, but not because I couldn't, I haven't decided where to invest yet, I'm sitting on 45k GXP and 12 mil cbills. On this account I am almost always in the top 3 for match score, modules are not required, whoever told you that lied. Even when I go pug CW with that account, it still does very well, even with 0 modules, though I usually wish I had adv. zoom and it will probably be my first pickup.

I feel way more "space rich" in MWO than my free random skin from Riot for being a good boy, which turned out to be a champ I don't even play.

I don't see 100 hours as being an excessive grind for someone who wants to free2play.

MechWarrior Credits 410
Kills/Death 531/440
C-Bills 12,157,161
Experience Points 723,985
Wins / Losses 323 / 267
Kill / Death Ratio 1.21
Accumulative C-Bills Per Match 132,990.44
Avg. XP Per Match 1,227.09

Edited by FrDrake, 10 March 2015 - 11:51 AM.

[Kain Demos]

Taffer, on 10 March 2015 - 02:37 AM, said:

You know what would be REALLY cool? If I could use my group coffer from CW to give cbills to my friends.

This would be nice but sadly I NEVER, EVER see this happening. Why?

Because it would hit PGI in their wallet.

1. It would allow for a way to bypass the grind--people in units with large coffers could "twink" buddies to end game status rather quickly. Even modestly sized units often have over 1,000,000,000 c-bills in their coffers.
2. It would provide a way for 3rd parties to sell c-bills WoW/Diablo 2, etc style.
3. PGI currently sells C-bills right now via MC and would not want to impact this.

[Parnage Winters]

It amazes me how many hoops people are willing to jump through so they don't have to admit that the current reward system is ****.

[Kristov Kerensky]

mogs01gt, on 10 March 2015 - 11:03 AM, said:

In MWO, there arent too many ways as a new player to gain Cbills without hero mechs.

What? I can drop, stand around and do NOTHING and make cbills, and that's without using anything but a stock Mech without any bonuses at all. Where do you get that you can't make cbills without a Hero Mech? You get paid to DROP, whether or not you do anything, you still get paid. You won't make 2m an hour doing that, but you'll get paid regardless. PGI has made sure that no matter HOW you perform or how well your team performs, you get paid just to show up.

Dusty, there does need to be SOME increase in the reward money, but how to go about doing it without removing the incentive to spend real world money to BUY stuff that makes you more cbills? I can make 2m an hour without using a Hero Mech, Premium time or anything else to boost my earnings, I just know how the payouts work and how to maximize them. Dropped in a Panther, did 40 damage, got paid $150,000 on a loss, because I spot, use UAV, flank, hit and run attacks, stick with my lance, it's just a matter of watching the screen and seeing when you get paid for doing something. I'm really sorry that the average player can't be assed to READ what's going across their screen as they are playing, but seriously, who does that fall on?

Do I expect the average newb to make 2m an hour? No, I don't, simply because most of them are lucky to know which direction they are facing, much less figure out how the game works. That's the fault of a lack of tutorial, not the Paulconomy however, and that's something that's in the works. Do I expect the average newb to find this game boring and a grind? Yes, actually I do, most of them are just here because it's FREE! That's it, the only reason, they won't stick around long enough to develop any real feeling for the game at all, they can't instagib things, they can't BUY Uberness, so they'll pack up and move along to the next FREE game they can find. Welcome to the F2P game genre, it's how it works and has worked for a number of years now. People who find something about the game engaging are the ones who stick around, and they aren't going to be the majority of new players, simple fact, MW is a niche genre, always has been.

So, someone crunch some numbers for us, average drop payout for an average player, figure 1 kill, 2 assists, 2 spots, 1 hit and run, 1 lance formation, win and loss, with that we can see just how many drops an average player needs to do to earn enough to buy a new Mech of median value, 8m cbills. Then we subtract from that amount slightly so that the time required is 33% more, THAT'S what the average payout should be for an average player, so they have an incentive to spend real money on getting a Hero or Premium time. After all, this IS a F2P game, and if they don't get paid, we don't get to game.

[Mott]

Parnage, on 10 March 2015 - 11:48 AM, said:

It amazes me how many hoops people are willing to jump through so they don't have to admit that the current reward system is ****.

Who's jumping through hoops?

I'm AVERAGING 225K cbills per match. I can get 8-10 matches per hour and usually play 2hrs at a stretch, 3 nights a week.

That means that EACH WEEK i can purchase and FULLY UPGRADE 2 lights (full price) or 1 medium (full price) or 1 heavy/assault mech (if it's on sale).

Someone with more time to spend... 12 hours per week, 18 hours per week, 30+ hours per week can easily purchase and upgrade 3, 4 or even 5+ mechs each week.

That is NOT a very heavy grind. It's very fair.

Edited by Mott, 10 March 2015 - 11:58 AM.

[Don Alosi]

Mott, on 10 March 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

^^ This.

So much of this. ALLLLLLLL OF THIS!

As you move through life, your priorities change. Time is much more rare for me at this point than gaming funds are.

I cannot dedicate 20+ hrs per week to video games. I could never do well in MWO if i relied only on grinding. So, i pay to get around the grind wall. As a result, i have an awesome stable of mechs, all of the ones i enjoy are mastered, i rarely have to swap engines and weapons any more, and i'm working on multiples of all essential modules, when most folks who rely solely on grinding can barely afford to try a new mech they're interested in.

I feel for anyone who is strapped for cash... but that doesn't mean i want the game designed around them and their wants. Seriously... wtf is wrong with people that they expect a company spending millions on game development to do it for FREE?

This kind of reasoning is what has shifted companies from pay to play to free to play, with all the horrendous crap that has followed. I'm in your situation, I've spent a bit of money on this game (more than what an AAA+ game would cost me, but you guys never put this in perspective) because I too have work and a baby and other stuff to do, but that doesn't mean we should endorse a business method made to milk us.

Please note that this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, I think that 200/230k a match (my average, considering premium time and hero mechs) is alright.


This forum is full of people shouting PGI PLEASE TAKE MY MONEY IN ANY WAY YOU PLEASE, AFTER ALL THIS IS CAPITALISM.

[Mott]

Don Alosi, on 10 March 2015 - 11:57 AM, said:

SNIP

OR, i look at it as "This is what i must pay for in order to enjoy a Mechwarrior game? Okay."

The old way of funding a game wasn't getting this game made. Sure, we could all close our wallets and demand a regular priced AAA title... and MWO would simply go away and nothing would take it's place. Leaving another Mechwarrior game vacuum that would take the better part of another 2 decades to fill.

Yay... that sounds like a better option. not.

[One Medic Army]

If the rewards were better I might actually play.

Instead I lurk here and hope it changes, or at the very least the premium time starts cutting the grind by a decent fraction. (Cutting the grind by 1/3 for premium, or nearly in half for time+hero is bollocks.)

[Mudhutwarrior]

I think beyond all the argument we have to understand and accept one thing about MWO and that is there is no real middle ground. You either have the cash to spend big or you grind. In between is were most real gamers lie. Those 20-35 who are struggling in this new jerk off economy. Most don't have the regular cash to throw at the game and consider the cost of a gaming system that makes playing this viable. Little link explanation for opening minds...http://www.mybudget3...r-college-debt/

I think PGI would do better to increase c-bill earnings not so much for the no pay player but the ones who can sometimes pay. They buy a mech or two and some premium. Then they have to grind for everything else. Its discouraging to buy a mech pack then have to grind like hell for modules and upgrades and it will wear thin over time.
I know several who have bought stuff then left because of this. One right now just came back in and was going to buy a pack. I told him to read up on quirks and modules, After he changed his mind and stayed out of the game. Module grind turned him off completely.

PGI could do to increase earnings without hurting themselves and in fact it would attract more to spend in the long run. Offering less expensive smaller packs would help too. For too many the big packs are out of reach.

[DustySkunk]

Kristov Kerensky, on 10 March 2015 - 11:55 AM, said:

What? I can drop, stand around and do NOTHING and make cbills, and that's without using anything but a stock Mech without any bonuses at all. Where do you get that you can't make cbills without a Hero Mech? You get paid to DROP, whether or not you do anything, you still get paid. You won't make 2m an hour doing that, but you'll get paid regardless. PGI has made sure that no matter HOW you perform or how well your team performs, you get paid just to show up.

Dusty, there does need to be SOME increase in the reward money, but how to go about doing it without removing the incentive to spend real world money to BUY stuff that makes you more cbills? I can make 2m an hour without using a Hero Mech, Premium time or anything else to boost my earnings, I just know how the payouts work and how to maximize them. Dropped in a Panther, did 40 damage, got paid $150,000 on a loss, because I spot, use UAV, flank, hit and run attacks, stick with my lance, it's just a matter of watching the screen and seeing when you get paid for doing something. I'm really sorry that the average player can't be assed to READ what's going across their screen as they are playing, but seriously, who does that fall on?

Do I expect the average newb to make 2m an hour? No, I don't, simply because most of them are lucky to know which direction they are facing, much less figure out how the game works. That's the fault of a lack of tutorial, not the Paulconomy however, and that's something that's in the works. Do I expect the average newb to find this game boring and a grind? Yes, actually I do, most of them are just here because it's FREE! That's it, the only reason, they won't stick around long enough to develop any real feeling for the game at all, they can't instagib things, they can't BUY Uberness, so they'll pack up and move along to the next FREE game they can find. Welcome to the F2P game genre, it's how it works and has worked for a number of years now. People who find something about the game engaging are the ones who stick around, and they aren't going to be the majority of new players, simple fact, MW is a niche genre, always has been.

So, someone crunch some numbers for us, average drop payout for an average player, figure 1 kill, 2 assists, 2 spots, 1 hit and run, 1 lance formation, win and loss, with that we can see just how many drops an average player needs to do to earn enough to buy a new Mech of median value, 8m cbills. Then we subtract from that amount slightly so that the time required is 33% more, THAT'S what the average payout should be for an average player, so they have an incentive to spend real money on getting a Hero or Premium time. After all, this IS a F2P game, and if they don't get paid, we don't get to game.

Kristov, I understand what you are saying entirely and I'm glad you are in favor of increasing the rewards in some fashion. As you pointed out, by paying close attention to the rewards available and learning to be a more effective team member you can earn c-bills quite nicely. I understand that to a certain extent this is a learning issue and players will have to become familiar with the system to excel. Rewards 2.0 has done a good job in starting to properly compensate players for role warfare.

To be clear, I'm not advocating blanket increases across the board. I also don't think that a new player should be earning 2 million an hour or of players earning something for nothing at all. I'm not sure if there is a silver bullet that will solve the issue entirely. One measure I do think we can take is to implement a minimum c-bill reward with the caveat that the player participates for the entire match. I outlined this earlier in the thread but I'll put it and edited updated version here:

Spoiler

I'd like to see a minimum payout for a win or a loss (provided there is adequate participation) that is only exceeded if your performance merits it. Specifically, minimum earnings of 100k c-bills for a win, 50k for a loss provided you spectate to the end of a match. Requiring participation in the form of spectating makes it highly unprofitable to try game the system by suicide rushing or shutting down to farm c-bills.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Examples:

Player "A" gets in his trial mech and finds himself in a bad position (easy newbie mistake) and gets focused to death in the first minute of the match. He spectates the match to the end and his team wins. He would have earned 40k c-bills, instead he gets 100k as his performance hasn't exceeded the minimum c-bill payout and he participated adequately.

Player "B" also has a bad time in his trial mech and gets focused right away. He dies and quits the match immediately. He wouldn't qualify for the minimum c-bill payout because he did not participate. Instead, he gets what he earned. 40k c-bills.

Player "C" has an excellent game and nets 250k c-bills. She has well above the minimum payout for a win and therefore earns as normal and the minimum doesn't apply.
This system would make the grind for new or less capable players easier to handle, would hopefully be useful as a teaching tool, and wouldn't encourage c-bill farming.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My final point here is that regardless of your performance in a match, as long as you are participating you are still investing your time into playing and should be rewarded for doing so. However, players who do very well will still get their rewards, and there is incentive to do so as you can earn much more than the minimum by doing well.

Assuming a perfect 50/50 win loss ratio, the minimum amount of matches to earn 1 million c-bills would be 13.32. Spectating each match, assuming that each match will last on average 8 minutes puts the time period at 107 minutes of play, not including the time to find a match. So, 18 hours of this will net you between 9 and 10 million c-bills.

This provides a baseline earnings that players will be able to count on for playing. I'm not sure that my numbers are perfect (they may be too generous), but I think something along these lines might be a step in the right direction.

In terms of the F2P model, I understand that not everyone will stick around, and many are here simply because it's free. What I would say to that is the way MWO is currently set up, the major items people are likely to purchase for real money are mech-bays, premium time and cosmetics (camo, colors, cockpit items). All of these purchases benefit from players having c-bills to spend. Want that new mech? You're going to need a mechbay. Want the hula girl for the cockpit? Gonna need a mech to put it in. etc. etc. etc. As folks become more invested in the game, premium time is more likely to be purchased. You get invested in the game partially by filling in your hangar and mastering mech chassis.

Am I way off base here?


EDIT: Math fail lol

Edited by DustySkunk, 10 March 2015 - 01:11 PM.