86 replies to this topic

[Lulz Kev]

WM Quicksilver, on 12 March 2015 - 10:33 PM, said:

I might've misunderstood the point of your question, as turn/twist speed was a minor thing of this thread, there was more to it than that.

Haha as minor as it was, I think its a fantastic idea!

[Ultimax]

WM Quicksilver, on 12 March 2015 - 02:37 PM, said:

Im gonna stop you here because there are serious misconceptions about competitive/cheese/tryhard/meta players and the differences between them.

While I try to avoid binary comparisons, there tends to be two sides to this equation. There are the competitive players who want a more dynamic and diverse meta (ironic considering the competitive players from the Guild Wars days were the opposite) so that more options are actually viable. Then there is what I generally considered the tryhard/cheese group, these are players who aren't as adaptive as some of the better players. These players have abused their crutch to be competitive, and they don't want their crutch to go away.

It is a very important distinction to make, not to single you out because you could very well know the difference, but a lot of people don't and I wanted to clear the air on that one because I've seen many and known many comp players from previous mods that wanted more diverse metas and have tried to make that happen rather than actively try to combat any change.

Off topic rant done.

OK you started the OT...


I'll invoke a bit of George Carlin here:



'Have you ever noticed that anyone playing worse than you is a window-licking derp, and anyone playing better than you is a cheese abusing tryhard?'

Edited by Ultimatum X, 13 March 2015 - 05:40 AM.

[Koniks]

Almond Brown, on 12 March 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

You do not tear it all out assuming a new one will not also spring a leak at some point in the future.

1) This is unncessarily pessimistc. They've already done one core change to make the pulse lasers viable. The completely rescaled how they and regular lasers compare. They also implemented a full quirk system. And then overhauled the quirk system to fit a preference a vocal minority of players had for quirks that favored stock loadouts rather than unique builds.

Core changes aren't any more difficult than anything else they've done in the last 5 months.

2) This isn't just a leak. The game had powercreep at its inception. Clans added another level. And IS mechs have now been quirked up towards that level. PGI has insisted they're concerned about TTK getting to low. And yet they're only making the problem worse. So change is warranted.

Ultimatum X, on 12 March 2015 - 09:13 AM, said:

You have derailed a thread asking for fixes that are beyond his control, and so out of the realm of ever coming to be that it's a waste of time to even bother proposing a "fix".

It's not even a fact you are presenting, you are presenting your opinion.

Many players are fine with the current rate of fire. I think firing my weapons every ten seconds would make for a boring game.

You are harping on rate of fire from a game where mechs didn't even have full armor allotments.

The goal of his thread is balance between IS and Clan engines not "redesigning the entire game's underlying mechanics"

At this point it seems like you're willfully misconstruing the argument. Thanks.

[Duke Nedo]

If we would for balance core rules ignore for a bit, I'd probably do this:

1. Allow individual crit slots to be destroyed in the engine
2. Make harsh penalties for losing an engine crit slot, like 10% cooling, 10% speed per slot
3. Increase death by engine destruction to 4 6 crit slots
4. Profit

Now losing both side torsos will kill both IS and clan XLs, but the IS version will be much more punished for losing 1 ST. It would also potentially be a more gradual process of each crit slot of the engine has some HP and can be destroyed individually.

Edit: 6 -> 4

Edited by Duke Nedo, 16 March 2015 - 10:49 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 March 2015 - 06:11 PM, said:

Oh, so having them still SUPERIOR in every way is not more fun. Gotcha.

Because hot and slow still beats dead, every single time.

While that is true, you have to understand that the Timberwolf, Mad Dog, Warhawk and Direwolf all have incredibly huge easy to hit STs, and if they were IS mechs would be regarded as XL deathtraps on the level of the stalker and atlas. If you make the XL ST loss penalty too abusive to the point where running a STD would be a consideration, you kill those mechs stone dead. I Already shoot for STs first on those mechs a lot of the time, even though it doesnt kill them, just because of how easy to shoot off they are, and how impossible it is to protect them.

Id prefer the Kingfisher to all the currently existing clan assaults, and it has a STD engine - even with the STD 360 it has more pod space than the Gargoyle by 5 tons and equals the Gladiator, plus its humanoid so can shield STs unlike the Warhawk/Direwolf and has very high mounted side torso Energy hardpoints, plus relatively high CT E hardpoints for a true zombie.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Duke Nedo, on 15 March 2015 - 11:56 PM, said:

If we would for balance core rules ignore for a bit, I'd probably do this:

1. Allow individual crit slots to be destroyed in the engine
2. Make harsh penalties for losing an engine crit slot, like 10% cooling, 10% speed per slot
3. Increase death by engine destruction to 6 crit slots
4. Profit

Now losing both side torsos will kill both IS and clan XLs, but the IS version will be much more punished for losing 1 ST. It would also potentially be a more gradual process of each crit slot of the engine has some HP and can be destroyed individually.

I think you forgot that Clan XLs have a total of 4 engine criticals between both side torsos, which means they would be able to survive both side torsos being destroyed under your rule. Either way, this still boosts Clan XLs and doesn't fix the inherent problem with Standard engines especially if we ever get the Kingfisher.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 16 March 2015 - 10:17 AM.

[Duke Nedo]

WM Quicksilver, on 16 March 2015 - 10:17 AM, said:

I think you forgot that Clan XLs have a total of 4 engine criticals between both side torsos, which means they would be able to survive both side torsos being destroyed under your rule. Either way, this still boosts Clan XLs and doesn't fix the inherent problem with Standard engines especially if we ever get the Kingfisher.

True, that was a typo, I meant to write 4 crit slots so that both survive one ST loss and dies on both. It's suggested as a buff to IS mainly to get closer to clan XL. Not that it would ever happen, but anyways...