22 replies to this topic

[CDLord HHGD]

Let me preface this by stating that this is by no means an attempt to marginalize actual war and combat experienced by our brave soldiers the world over. My comparison is made from an academic viewpoint and not one of experience, or even close to that. I never served but I honor those who have.

When I think of the Battletech and Mechwarrior genre I imagine it somewhat like the Vietnam conflict. A comparative age of basic tech and outdated tactics leading to damage and death on a scale unsustainable. Dirty and terrible with both sides way over their heads being pushed around like so many markers on a map by isolated politicians safe from the ravages of war. This is what goes through my mind as I strap into my mech to go do a job that I'm told must be done.

What is your Mechwarrior war?

[DaZur]

My MW:O War?...

It's a lot like a half-dozen spoiled toddlers sitting in a sandbox having a slap-fight. Then the pre-school kids (Clans) return from nap-time and they kick the crap out of them for all being a bunch of selfish whiners.

[Joseph Mallan]

cdlord, on 09 March 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

Let me preface this by stating that this is by no means an attempt to marginalize actual war and combat experienced by our brave soldiers the world over. My comparison is made from an academic viewpoint and not one of experience, or even close to that. I never served but I honor those who have.

When I think of the Battletech and Mechwarrior genre I imagine it somewhat like the Vietnam conflict. A comparative age of basic tech and outdated tactics leading to damage and death on a scale unsustainable. Dirty and terrible with both sides way over their heads being pushed around like so many markers on a map by isolated politicians safe from the ravages of war. This is what goes through my mind as I strap into my mech to go do a job that I'm told must be done.

What is your Mechwarrior war?

MechWarrior is normally NOT that kind of war tactics. Vietnam was not a lot of force against force but Guerrilla fighting. Something I didn't get a lot of training in.

Most MechWarrior fights were modeled after Roman and Civil War battles. This is from teh CBT writers.

[Metus regem]

I take a more modren spin on it now, in TT I tend to try and use a combined arms approch, where speed, moblility and overlapping fire are my keys to victory, tends to work well for my IS units... My Clans how ever, fight as Clans do, just with combined Elementals, Mechs and Areospace assets working in harmony.

Edit:

And yes, I've swapped sides for CW, liking using my IS mechs for a while, clan tech was getting boaring.

Edited by Metus regem, 09 March 2015 - 10:54 AM.

[Sylonce]

MWO reminds me of the conflicts involving men standing in lines and carrying muskets. Positioning appears to be everything, and being in the wrong place at the wrong time often means 12 others are all trying to shoot you in the face, no matter how bad their aim is.

[Foxfire kadrpg]

I do not have the background in history to pinpoint a conflict, but when I imagine the universe of Mechwarrior, I start thinking about pre-medieval warfare. Or maybe pre-renaissance. In my mind it's a collection of warlords who don't nessasarily like or trust each other, but hate the other factions more than their present leadership, and no one properly co-ordinates with each other.

My knowledge of the Battletech universe is largely translated from childhood memories of MW2 and Ghost Bear's Legacy I played as a kid, with annacdotes from the role players on this forum.

[Cion]

People tend to compare Mechwarrior to tanks. Yes, they kind of operate like tanks with the torso twist, but when your talking lances and different weight classes with different roles you are more comparable to a Carrier Strike Force group.

DPS Assaults (Dires, Crabs) = Carriers (most firepower)
Atlas = Battleship (damage, armor, slow)
Glass cannons (Gauss Jaegers, etc) = attack subs
Fire support mechs = long range missle cruisers
Brawlers, ecm, ams = support short range cruisers

So that being said, from a several lance tactical perspective I'd say anywhere from WWII to today's naval battles.

Outside of what we have from this game MWO it's quite a different story (politics, attrition, territory, etc)

Edit : correct phone spellcheck

Edited by Cion, 09 March 2015 - 11:14 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

There are times when I also get the impression that this is colonial era combat, line up in a line with muskets blazing. The only thing that deters me is the tech level. Same with comparisons of knights in armor, though that is used even in canon.

I only use Vietnam because of the in-your-face fighting that can happen yet still with relatively high tech weapons.

[Mechteric]

With the kings and houses and whatnot of the IS, and the Clans coming in as they do, kinda reminds of a kind of space Gaul barbarian invasion of the Roman empire.

[Dino Might]

Battletech is the Peloponnesian War in space. But this time the Delian League ends up winning.

Edited by Dino Might, 09 March 2015 - 11:36 AM.

[KraftySOT]

My Mechwarrior War is a 30 year long battle with depression over whats been done to one of the greatest sci fi story lines ever put to paper.

In the context of the OP's question.

Its the 7 Years War. The uh. Same war the story line is based on. Well more the series of wars including the Hundred Years War, the Succession of Cambria, The Mongol Invasion, the AntiPope's invasion, Reformation and finally culminating with the first real global war...the 7 Years War.

Prussia (Steiner) and England (Davion) ally, and seize French (location forces it to be Capellan, but it should be Marik culturally) shipping (Gallahad Games) and dispute occupied neutral territory (Rasalhauge) and launch the first truly global war (everyone in the sphere involved).

Hundred years wear is the 3rd succession. League of Cambrai is 2nd. Mongol Invasion is the clans. Reformation is Word of Blake. Jihad is the Anti Pope (Ottoman Sultan)

Thats what happens when history and poli sci majors write your lore.

Edited by KraftySOT, 09 March 2015 - 11:54 AM.

[Mudhutwarrior]

My mechwarrior war is psych warfare. You pick a single subject that ticks off most knuckle draggers then run with it. Pretty soon you get them and the associated flies thinking they have achieved something here on the forums. Just watch, I have it down to a science now.

Then when in game and you see one they don't think about the team but just getting you. Works like a charm every time.

[Artgathan]

WWI: Intense trench warfare, involving lots of long range static skirmishing before someone gets brave and tries to assault a trench, broken up by the intermittent blasts of artillery fire trying to dislodge entrenched defenders and slow attackers. Tactics are limited, technology is fairly basic. Causalities are needlessly high as soldiers fight to change boundaries that have no meaning to them.

[NextGame]

cdlord, on 09 March 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

Let me preface this by stating that this is by no means an attempt to marginalize actual war and combat experienced by our brave soldiers the world over. My comparison is made from an academic viewpoint and not one of experience, or even close to that. I never served but I honor those who have.

When I think of the Battletech and Mechwarrior genre I imagine it somewhat like the Vietnam conflict. A comparative age of basic tech and outdated tactics leading to damage and death on a scale unsustainable. Dirty and terrible with both sides way over their heads being pushed around like so many markers on a map by isolated politicians safe from the ravages of war. This is what goes through my mind as I strap into my mech to go do a job that I'm told must be done.

What is your Mechwarrior war?

Theres one (maybe 2) of the novels that tries pretty hard to drive home the brutalities of war (cant remember its name though) and if you had just read it I could see where you are coming from, but really I just see big stompy robots shooting each other.

Edited by NextGame, 09 March 2015 - 11:58 AM.

[KraftySOT]

Also none of the politicians were safe in Battletech. They got knocked off like a George RR Martin novel.

There may have been an Ares convention banning fighting in cities and orbital bombardments or tac nukes (or interupting civilian shipping in any way). But thats because theres a time when there WASNT an Ares convention and it was devastating.

That convention lead to the whole "Mechs are the new Knights" thing instead of just another piece of battlefield equipment. Royal families got in them, went off to fight for honor and glory, and came back to be assassinated or struck down in a rebellion.

The entire thing is the Holy Roman era.

Mechwarrior is more like the Tudors, and less like Platoon. Until really the 4th Succession war (right before the clan invasion) no ones military contained more than maybe 1,000 mechs, and they were mostly piloted by nobles, or the extremely wealthy. War was adventure more so than conquest.

With the FedCom alliance, war got really brutal, and new technologies and production advancements meant there were actually multiple divisions of mechs fielded by each side, the first time that had happened in like 600 years.

By 3052, you had people in mechs who were drafted.

Back in 2866. The only guys in mechs were nobles. If you were unfortunate enough to be on a big planet or a planet being attacked, you might get conscripted into the infantry, that despite what the TT says, is probably less dangerous than being in a mech. You can just run away. Theres really not that many people to stop you. Administration was horrible. The houses barely held control of their own territory, and did so with political intrigue and royal marriages.

If youve ever played Crusader Kings by Paradox. Thats more like what Battletech is like. But with mechs, instead of cavalry.

"House Davion" and "House Tudor" are pretty similar with all that entails and means. They have a court. They had advisors. Theres princes, kings, counts, dukes. Theres dozens if not hundreds of other royal familes within the Federated Suns. Davion is just the leading royal family. Not unlike the Tudors. Just not so fat.

Edited by KraftySOT, 09 March 2015 - 12:06 PM.

[Taemien]

Depends on the era.

For the 3rd and 4th Succession War, it was alot like the mini-wars that the Greek City-States had. They'd pit some forces together and fight with some 'rules'.

Sounds almost clan-like in a sense. The clans just took the idea and ran with it fullcore.

Clan Invasion was like the US's Manifest Destiny, cept they never did complete theirs. They got stymied when the actual real units got into play.

Then you've got the lovely Fedcom Civil war which was alot like World War I/II put together. The aftermath of II with the catalyst of I.

Finally the Jihad, a war that hasn't happened yet IRL. World War III. Its about how it would probably go. Stuff gets annihilated, infrastructure needs to be rebuilt, and everyone's standing around going, "wtf did that happen for?" And nothing really changes socio-politically.

[KraftySOT]

Jihad happened.

Ask everyone in the Balkans. Wallachia wants its million people back.

[C E Dwyer]

The whole premises of Battle tech, was modern weapons, virtually destroying technology, if you couldn't take a planet you nuked it so the other side couldn't use it, if you couldn't take city that or factory that was producing a targeting system or a science you wanted but couldn't take it for yourself you obiliterated it from orbit so it wasn't there for anyone to use.

The conventions were later created that stylised warfare, much like the 100 years war, but with weapons that could level a city, to preserve at the brink of complete technological extinction, what little tech was left, its how com star became so powerful, and in theory neutral.

Unlike MWO where PGI just produce another mech and we,buy, grind it, all factories left were automated and nearly all tech was gone, its why you have weapons systems that can damage a target 100 miles away can't hit a barn door if the mech was on the inside, in the fictions you didn't have 100 mechs in your bays, if you had a mech it was a very rare thing it made you a power house and a force over night.

In history, if you found a horse shoe, the iron in it was so expensive that a commoner could feed their family, for about 6 months its where they saying lucky horse shoe comes from, and not this gypsy bollocks people keep spouting, in the MWO universe, finding an atlas arm in your garden while digging up your potatoes would be a similar thing.

The whole idea of the mech warrior universe was to be 14th century warfare but with *********** weapons you hoped would hit what you aimed at, its why mercenaries are so important in B.T just as they were in the wars of religion.

Then they screwed the pooch by creating the clans.. and frigging up the game balance, so they came up with even more improbable bullshine, with lostech and com stars hidden hoards.

[KraftySOT]

Cathy, on 09 March 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

The whole premises of Battle tech, was modern weapons, virtually destroying technology, if you couldn't take a planet you nuked it so the other side couldn't use it, if you couldn't take city that or factory that was producing a targeting system or a science you wanted but couldn't take it for yourself you obiliterated it from orbit so it wasn't there for anyone to use.

The conventions were later created that stylised warfare, much like the 100 years war, but with weapons that could level a city, to preserve at the brink of complete technological extinction, what little tech was left, its how com star became so powerful, and in theory neutral.

Unlike MWO where PGI just produce another mech and we,buy, grind it, all factories left were automated and nearly all tech was gone, its why you have weapons systems that can damage a target 100 miles away can't hit a barn door if the mech was on the inside, in the fictions you didn't have 100 mechs in your bays, if you had a mech it was a very rare thing it made you a power house and a force over night.

In history, if you found a horse shoe, the iron in it was so expensive that a commoner could feed their family, for about 6 months its where they saying lucky horse shoe comes from, and not this gypsy bollocks people keep spouting, in the MWO universe, finding an atlas arm in your garden while digging up your potatoes would be a similar thing.

The whole idea of the mech warrior universe was to be 14th century warfare but with *********** weapons you hoped would hit what you aimed at, its why mercenaries are so important in B.T just as they were in the wars of religion.

Then they screwed the pooch by creating the clans.. and frigging up the game balance, so they came up with even more improbable bullshine, with lostech and com stars hidden hoards.

*does the happy dance*

Someone who gets it.

The Ares Convention is the Treaty of Edinburgh.

https://books.google...s%20war&f=false

Brownie points to whoever can tell me what Battletech conflict is 'The War of the Roses'.

Edited by KraftySOT, 09 March 2015 - 12:26 PM.

[CyclonerM]

MechWarriors, especially in the 3025 era, are definitely knights in armored giants.