236 replies to this topic

[Brody319]

I don't know about you, but I am perfectly willing to remove the JJs from my timberwolfs if PGI would just allow me to remove them.

[Bishop Steiner]

MeiSooHaityu, on 10 March 2015 - 12:27 PM, said:

I'm not sure I understand your stance?

I just meant a slight agility nerf (I was just trying to say it nicer lol). You seem like you don't agree, yet you sounded like you kind of agreed earlier.

Maybe it is just a long day of work taking it's toll on my thought process. So no movement adjustments to the TW in your opinion?

I disagree with your agreeing with Brody's "buff everything" comment. The nerfs are needed. Buffing everything just causes more issues longterm

[Kain Demos]

I would just run a pretty simple 2 Gauss + CERPPC build with 6 tons of ammo. Just 1 CERPPC shy of the hated Dire Wolf build but with mobility, the cost of a heavy slot, or the cost of only 75 tons in CW.

[A Large Infant]

They had to change the 1000 damage club to the 1500 damage club when the Timber Wolf arrived but no, Inner Sphere is easymode by comparison. Myopia astounds sometimes.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 March 2015 - 12:27 PM, said:

Sorry but if it's dying fast, either you are consistently facing Elos well above your own, you don't twist or you are showing poor situational awareness and getting focused fired, a lot. Even without JJs to bunny hop, as long as I don't bring missile racks, the thing is crazy good at soaking damage.

I stopped running them for the same reason I stopped running Firestarters..... because the mech is so obviously broken it makes the game too easy.

Even with the racks on my TBR-S she tanks damage like a boss, when I'm not facing people that are much better than me (read 228th, OLD....)

[MeiSooHaityu]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 March 2015 - 12:28 PM, said:

I disagree with your agreeing with Brody's "buff everything" comment. The nerfs are needed. Buffing everything just causes more issues longterm

Then that was accidental. I DEFINENTLY don't want to buff everything.

I see what you saw. I'm just saying I can see Clan mechs getting some buffs. A Summoner (with restrictive hard points) could get a ballistics quirk for an LBX10, or something like that.

I'm not advocating buffing everything to TW levels...oh no.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 10 March 2015 - 12:33 PM.

[MerryIguana]

I expect it to be nerfed when pgi stops selling wave 1 for real money.

[Ultimax]

They should never have given it Jump Jets.


Hindsight, however, is 20/20.


Part of me wonders if they were afraid their new clan mechs were going to be heavily dominated by CTF/VTR/HGN poptarts - looked at what was available and realized the Summoner would not be able to compete with all 3 of those mechs at that game.


So perhaps that's how the Timber Wolf got it's JJs.


It's just a guess.





...




They did however, decide to give the DWF JJs long after the fact.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 10 March 2015 - 12:33 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gyrok, on 10 March 2015 - 12:20 PM, said:

The Night Gyr has more pod space than an 85 ton assault mech, and can jump, plus it has no BS like an entirely locked ST.

and still has less armor, and won't have the speed. And the Warhawks issue with tonnage is because of all the hardlocked DHS. Which a huge chunk of tonnage will end up going right back into on the Night Gyt, save for GR builds.

It will be strong minus bad hitboxes (The Warhawks other issue).

But what has always made the TBR the perfect storm is the blend of attributes. The speed might not seem huge paper and pencil, but it gives it a tactical edge that a mech 20 kph slower can't match. Medium Mech Speed and Agility, Assault Firepower, and Good armor and hitboxes (sans missiles) is why the TBR is so good, because most MEchs that are Jacks of All Trades, are masters of none, but the TBR ends up being a master of everything but heavy ballistics builds.

[Kain Demos]

Meeso Thorny, on 10 March 2015 - 12:30 PM, said:

They had to change the 1000 damage club to the 1500 damage club when the Timber Wolf arrived but no, Inner Sphere is easymode by comparison. Myopia astounds sometimes.

That was at launch when Clan lasers were much better than they are now.

There are numerous easy as hell 1000+ 'mechs since quirks now that are not Clan. I never even noticed Dragon 1Ns before but now every third match someone does 1200 in one.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Ultimatum X, on 10 March 2015 - 12:33 PM, said:

They should never have given it Jump Jets.

Agreed!

[Lily from animove]

Evan20k, on 10 March 2015 - 11:32 AM, said:

I'm late to the party on this one. I just purchased my very first timberwolf this morning and I really want to know how people justify to themselves that this thing is at all remotely fair? I feel like I have the agility of a medium and the firepower of a 90ton assault in this thing. Maybe I'm just **** with every other mech I've played in comparison, but this thing feels like it has absolutely no drawbacks in a game where each mech has its own strengths and weaknesses. Do you guys think it will be getting some sort of balance adjustments in the coming months?

"My epeen > yours" justifies 99% on the internet.

I just fear they do not balance it and instead try to brign the others on their level, but trying to brin 30+ mechs on this is quite difficult.

[KhanCipher]

Metus regem, on 10 March 2015 - 11:58 AM, said:

Sadly this is very true, or something will take the Timber Wolf's place as the source of much QQ... I for one am looking forward to this:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Night_Gyr

Basically she is a Timber with out the oversize engine...

the only reason i'd want the Night Gyr is for the Laser Heat Sinks. Which the Night Gyr is the only mech that has them.

Quote

Functionally identical to a Clan-tech double heat sink, the lack of liquid and gas in the system reduces the chances of heat-based ammunition cook-off and decreased performance on warmer worlds, while at the same time preventing laser heat sinks from taking advantage of immersion in water or colder weather to boost their performance.

[Kain Demos]

I also disagree with the TBR-S being available at launch. A through D variants were all timeline correct and easily enough put in game (A and D are my favorites so I admit to being biased here. Love the C-ERPPC in each arm.) and would have provided plenty enough build diversity. Putting the S in did a lot of things.......like relegating the Summoner to "wannabe" status.

[MauttyKoray]

I feel they just need to tone down the maneuverability a tad and maybe make a pass on the hitboxes and it should fall into place. The mech otherwise is exactly where I think it should be, the hitbox pass may not even be needed, just a light handed agility nerf would probably do.

The real problem is that the core systems are imbalanced (JJs and ghost heat oh my) and unless those get fixed the game will never be properly balanced. High tonnage/hardpoint mechs will ALWAYS have the advantage because they'll be able to pack the biggest alpha strikes or weapon loads possible to fire as quickly and as many times as they want. Mechs with fewer hard points or lower available tonnage/space are the ones that suffer because they'll never be able to match the raw damage output that these other mechs can. Reducing the heat cap alone and rebalancing heat dissipation would allow mechs to fire weapons consistently but without the ability to use the ridiculous sized alpha strikes that they can now.

[1453 R]

Gyrok, on 10 March 2015 - 12:25 PM, said:

While this is true, you have to consider that you could legitimately get 4B 4E on it...which is Dual Gauss + ERPPC no sweat. Could also run 4 ERPPCs well, or 4 LPLs. 2xUAC5 + 2xUAC10 + 4 ERMLs.

Does not take much imagination to think about a 6E option with 4 LPLs and 2ERMLs + 24 DHS.

Heh, like I said, I didn’t know where the hardpoints were so I couldn’t figure out mix-n-match maximums. That said, 4B/4E would certainly be useful but it still wouldn’t obsolete the Timber Wolf the way everyone’s saying it would. Realistically that gets you a couple of builds you can’t really do on the Wolf – Clan Murdermets (3x C-UAC-5, 4x C-ERML) comes to mind, and obviously dual Gauss, but a number of your other configurations are things that already don’t really do well or which other ‘Mechs in the game can manage as well. Quad C-ERPPC stinks on the Warhawk, which was specifically purpose-built to run quad C-ERPPC, and while the Gyr could better cool quad C-LPL, the Wolf’s extra mobility make it a better striker, which is what I’d consider a quad-LPL armament to be for. Claservomit doesn’t DPS anyways, it vomits once or twice then withdraws to cool down.

The best builds on the Gyr would probably be dual Gauss with the addition of enough Claservomit on the side to protect itself. Something like dual Gauss w/6t ammo (30t), 4x C-ERML, and four extra DHS and something of a ghetto Clan Pillager-Lite (Pillagers were the guys with the dual Gauss and the pile of lasers, right? I forget at the moment >_<). That would be a very unpleasant thing to deal with given TBR-level armor and the moderate extra mobility from the quartet of HoverJets, but while it has much better sustained firepower and a potent PPFLD spike, it doesn’t come close to out-striking a Claservomit Wolf, which can run rings around the clumsy thing. Clan Murdermets would be hilariously entertaining, and unlike hexacannon DakkaWhales it might even be halfway combat effective, but then it doesn’t have any facetime advantages over Claservomit and gets itself cut to pieces by baller Clan lasers or domed by ridiculous Thuds.

It’s a great ‘Mech, and something that would offer the Clans a niche they don’t currently have as a gun-centric weapons platform rather than an engine-centric agile striker, but it does different jobs than the Timber Wolf and would be more likely to complement it rather than replace it.

Now, you want to talk about something that’s going to give the Timber Wolf a real run for its money? Let’s talk Cauldron-Born. When those beautiful monstrosities hit I may have to bid my trusty Wolves a tearful farewell, because if the modelers do ANY kind of worthwhile job sticking to Alex’s art and the spirit of the original ‘Mech, the Cauldron-Born is going to be the gunboat to beat. Those hardpoints, man…those hardpoints. All we need are TBR-style hitboxes instead of CPLT-style failsauce and the Cauldron-Born is going to inspire more PRANA PLZ NERF than the Night Gyr ever would.

[Brody319]

I would just like to point out that the Timberwolf originally had removable jump jets for a few months, and then PGI decided to hardlock them and it was considered by some to be a "nerf" to the timberwolf. and not many people were running JJs till they were forced on.

[Bishop Steiner]

Brody319, on 10 March 2015 - 12:43 PM, said:

I would just like to point out that the Timberwolf originally had removable jump jets for a few months, and then PGI decided to hardlock them and it was considered by some to be a "nerf" to the timberwolf. and not many people were running JJs till they were forced on.

and I would like to point out it realistically had next to zero impact. 2 builds had to be reconsidered. And along they kept purring.

[Aiden Skye]

Are we talking metawolf or something else. Laser vomit is incredibly boring. I for one do not believe all builds are created equal. I run 2x CSRM4, 2x CERML, 2x CERPPC in mine. It's hot as hell, not really good for brawling in this brawl heavy Meta cycle MWO has found itself in. Most won't consider it optimal.

What I don't want to see is another wave of blanket nerfs to combat problems created by some FOTM build.

[Paigan]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 March 2015 - 12:27 PM, said:

Sorry but if it's dying fast, either you are consistently facing Elos well above your own, you don't twist or you are showing poor situational awareness and getting focused fired, a lot. Even without JJs to bunny hop, as long as I don't bring missile racks, the thing is crazy good at soaking damage.

I stopped running them for the same reason I stopped running Firestarters..... because the mech is so obviously broken it makes the game too easy.

You miss the point.
I'll repeat it:
However good or bad I play or enemies I face, it's the same when I play a SCR, TBR or WHK.
The SCR has much more durability than the TBR and the WHK subjectively twice as much.

Concrete example:
I almost never lose an arm with the TBR, always directly the whole torso side.
With the WHK, damage distributes evenly accross all torso sides and arms.
Hence twice longevity.

Please don't say I don't twist enough because I twist just as much or as less with the WHK.

Edited by Paigan, 10 March 2015 - 12:49 PM.