42 replies to this topic

[DrSlamastika]

I was so happy when I saw the new weapon cooldown modules. .

I thought this modules are for better cooling efficiency, after nerf of lasers.
So I bought one for C-ERML.Cose before nerf my DIREWHALE had 1.13 HEAT MGMT and now 1.05

So when my heat management was still on 1.05 I get it, this is for better cadence. I was so stupid

It can be good for some ballistic or rockets, but not for energy weapons, cose better cadence make a more heat.

It will be great, if there will be some modules for this kind of problem, better cooling of the gun.

This is only thing which can make me happy after this nerfs. And there should be more differend kinds of weapons modules.

Just my two cents.

Edited by DrSlamastika, 10 September 2014 - 09:56 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

yeah, their decision way back when, to describe RoF as Cooldown has probably added a layer of confusion.

[Dracol]

My stormcrow I run with 1 LL and 4 Meds and plenty of heatsinks. It runs fairly cool to begin with and has benefited from the cool down mod.

[Bishop Steiner]

Dracol, on 10 September 2014 - 09:32 AM, said:

My stormcrow I run with 1 LL and 4 Meds and plenty of heatsinks. It runs fairly cool to begin with and has benefited from the cool down mod.

yeah, of course you are already (due to heat) down one Large form the old "optimal" build.

[process]

I don't think I'll be getting it for energy weapons, due to the faster heat generation and already decent cooldown times. You get a lot more bang for your buck the longer the base weapon cooldown is. For slow, cool weapons, it's a pretty substantial improvement -- 0.48 seconds for AC20, Gauss, and SRM6 at level 5.

Edited by process, 10 September 2014 - 09:48 AM.

[Hillslam]

PGI will never EVER offer anything to alleviate heat.

They feel its a core gameplay-affecting lever for them to use to impact Time To Kill (TTK) and other match aspects they care about.

[Russ Bullock]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 September 2014 - 09:32 AM, said:

yeah, their decision way back when, to describe RoF as Cooldown has probably added a layer of confusion.

This is probably fair and something that we should look into changing.

Yes it's true that there more useful for ballistic weapons. Weapons such as lasers will only get an advantage in small bursts or for mechs that have left space for lots of heatsinks and heat efficiency. Also in those situations where people are chain firing their lasers they will see some advantage.

But yes for balance reasons I do not think we will ever see a module that acts like a heat sink.

[Bishop Steiner]

Russ Bullock, on 10 September 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

This is probably fair and something that we should look into changing.

Yes it's true that there more useful for ballistic weapons. Weapons such as lasers will only get an advantage in small bursts or for mechs that have left space for lots of heatsinks and heat efficiency. Also in those situations where people are chain firing their lasers they will see some advantage.

But yes for balance reasons I do not think we will ever see a module that acts like a heat sink.

Glad to hear that. If you did, I would hope, and actually hope with the current ones, it is a give/take thing. Slightly cooler, means, slightly shorter range, or such. Actually got a Topic going about just such things for Modules ATM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Russ Bullock, on 10 September 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

Yes it's true that there more useful for ballistic weapons. Weapons such as lasers will only get an advantage in small bursts or for mechs that have left space for lots of heatsinks and heat efficiency. Also in those situations where people are chain firing their lasers they will see some advantage.

Have you weighed the implications of faster firing weapons and time to kill ratios or will this just result in more ghost heats nerfs over the long run?

[Bill Lumbar]

I didn't even know that they put these out yet.... hmmmmm maybe my 12 er small laser nova can brawl again? :-)

[Bishop Steiner]

Bill Lumbar, on 10 September 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

I didn't even know that they put these out yet.... hmmmmm maybe my 12 er small laser nova can brawl again? :-)

nope.

Again, it's the confusion of the definition.

"Cooldown" is how long the weapons take to cycle, or RoF, not their "cooling efficiency".

You pop those on your 12 er smalls, and will overheat REAL fast.

[Carrie Harder]

Russ Bullock, on 10 September 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

This is probably fair and something that we should look into changing.

Yes it's true that there more useful for ballistic weapons. Weapons such as lasers will only get an advantage in small bursts or for mechs that have left space for lots of heatsinks and heat efficiency. Also in those situations where people are chain firing their lasers they will see some advantage.

But yes for balance reasons I do not think we will ever see a module that acts like a heat sink.

While you're here, is there a specific reason that a number of weapons were excluded from cooldown and/or range modules? I.e. why no AC/2 cooldown or C-SSRM4 range?

[Bishop Steiner]

Carrie Harder, on 10 September 2014 - 09:59 AM, said:

While you're here, is there a specific reason that a number of weapons were excluded from cooldown and/or range modules? I.e. why no AC/2 cooldown or C-SSRM4 range?

They nerfed ac2 cooldown in the past for a reason. Using a module to bring it back would be counter productive to that, would you not agree? And the C-SSRM4 I can totally see them not wanting to make too attractive. There are certain other conspicuously absent Weapon/Module combinations, which seem to coincide with heavily used/easily abused weapons and the areas that might make them a balance issue.

Mind you, that is just my read on it, and I neither claim nor intend to speak for, Russ.

[Carrie Harder]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 September 2014 - 10:04 AM, said:

They nerfed ac2 cooldown in the past for a reason. Using a module to bring it back would be counter productive to that, would you not agree? And the C-SSRM4 I can totally see them not wanting to make too attractive. There are certain other conspicuously absent Weapon/Module combinations, which seem to coincide with heavily used/easily abused weapons and the areas that might make them a balance issue.

Mind you, that is just my read on it, and I neither claim nor intend to speak for, Russ.

The AC/2 cooldown nerf was arguably unneccessary, as the only issue with the weapon was the amount of impulse/shake it caused, not its damage output. And besides, every other AC got a cooldown mod, so right now it's the odd man out (even more than it used to be).

For SSRM4, they already gave a range mod to the SSRM6 and cooldown to SSRM2 (both factions), so I don't really see any "abuse" potential here. Also, infamous "abused" weapons like PPCs, Gauss, and AC/5 get cooldown mods, which contradicts that argument.

There doesn't seem to be any real consistent rhyme or reason for those exclusions.

[Bishop Steiner]

Carrie Harder, on 10 September 2014 - 10:11 AM, said:

The AC/2 cooldown nerf was arguably unneccessary, as the only issue with the weapon was the amount of impulse/shake it caused, not its damage output. And besides, every other AC got a cooldown mod, so right now it's the odd man out (even more than it used to be).

For SSRM4, they already gave a range mod to the SSRM6 and cooldown to SSRM2 (both factions), so I don't really see any "abuse" potential here. Also, infamous "abused" weapons like PPCs, Gauss, and AC/5 get cooldown mods, which contradicts that argument.

There doesn't seem to be any real consistent rhyme or reason for those exclusions.

You consider it arguably unnecessary. PGI did not, else they would not have nerfed it. The module would be going counter to their belief on the weapon.

*shrugs*

Carrie Harder, on 10 September 2014 - 10:11 AM, said:

The AC/2 cooldown nerf was arguably unneccessary, as the only issue with the weapon was the amount of impulse/shake it caused, not its damage output. And besides, every other AC got a cooldown mod, so right now it's the odd man out (even more than it used to be).

For SSRM4, they already gave a range mod to the SSRM6 and cooldown to SSRM2 (both factions), so I don't really see any "abuse" potential here. Also, infamous "abused" weapons like PPCs, Gauss, and AC/5 get cooldown mods, which contradicts that argument.

There doesn't seem to be any real consistent rhyme or reason for those exclusions.

PPC heat makes cooldown a delightful trap.

[Coolant]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 September 2014 - 09:32 AM, said:

yeah, their decision way back when, to describe RoF as Cooldown has probably added a layer of confusion.

Cooldown was the term in MW4:Mercs. No confusion if you played that...

[Carrie Harder]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 September 2014 - 10:16 AM, said:

You consider it arguably unnecessary. PGI did not, else they would not have nerfed it. The module would be going counter to their belief on the weapon.

*shrugs*

What's ironic is that the AC/5 gets a cooldown mod, and in the past it had a cooldown nerf as well (1.5s to 1.66s). And that new module cancels out that nerf (roughly 1.46s cooldown now). And the range mods on various Clan lasers somewhat counteract their own range nerfs. If they didn't want to "undo" nerfs of the past with new modules, they kinda messed that plan up.

Bishop Steiner, on 10 September 2014 - 10:16 AM, said:

PPC heat makes cooldown a delightful trap.

That's besides the point. PPCs were just brought up as one counterexample of "abused" weapons being skipped for modules.

[Joseph Mallan]

Russ Bullock, on 10 September 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

This is probably fair and something that we should look into changing.

Yes it's true that there more useful for ballistic weapons. Weapons such as lasers will only get an advantage in small bursts or for mechs that have left space for lots of heatsinks and heat efficiency. Also in those situations where people are chain firing their lasers they will see some advantage.

But yes for balance reasons I do not think we will ever see a module that acts like a heat sink.

Nice to see more
Saying what you do.

[Bill Lumbar]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 September 2014 - 09:59 AM, said:

nope.

Again, it's the confusion of the definition.

"Cooldown" is how long the weapons take to cycle, or RoF, not their "cooling efficiency".

You pop those on your 12 er smalls, and will overheat REAL fast.

Ha ha... I see, yep, I get it now. I got all excited thinking it helped heat diss, not the weapon cool down rate to increase firing speed. Well maybe this will work on my 5 small laser Locust than....:-)

[Bishop Steiner]

Carrie Harder, on 10 September 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

What's ironic is that the AC/5 gets a cooldown mod, and in the past it had a cooldown nerf as well (1.5s to 1.66s). And that new module cancels out that nerf (roughly 1.46s cooldown now). And the range mods on various Clan lasers somewhat counteract their own range nerfs. If they didn't want to "undo" nerfs of the past with new modules, they kinda messed that plan up.



That's besides the point. PPCs were just brought up as one counterexample of "abused" weapons being skipped for modules.

and unless they added it, you will note that there was no range enhancement for it. Which would be the issues with it, not cooldown.