34 replies to this topic

[Kjudoon]

I've no interest in entertaining anymore of your foolishness, either. bubye.

Terciel1976, on 11 March 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

Make it a 24-hour cycle but you have to "win" in 2/3 8-hour attack windows to take a planet. Best of both worlds.

I've suggested that in the past too. The freakout from the "but we'll win in 16 hours making the last phase worthless was deafening.

[TercieI]

Kjudoon, on 11 March 2015 - 12:46 PM, said:

I've no interest in entertaining anymore of your foolishness, either. bubye.


I've suggested that in the past too. The freakout from the "but we'll win in 16 hours making the last phase worthless was deafening.

Well, as long as you have cycles you'll have issues. <shrug> Not deeply invested personally.

[GrizzlyViking]

Tasker, on 11 March 2015 - 09:12 AM, said:

Hmm. Interesting suggestions.

Also suggest perhaps allow team to win battle if last mech power down and hide successfully for full 30 minutes? Ha ha.

There are some things that just can't be done.

[N0MAD]

Paul Inouye, on 11 March 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

About the Cease Fire timing:

We do not want Community Warfare to play so rapidly that the Clans are sitting on Terra within the first week. This is what would happen if you have short battle cycle times for a given planet. It is because of this that there is only 1 planet per border that goes into conflict.

This statement implies the Clans are going to steam roll the IS regardless and that the current system is only there to slow down the inevitable..

[GrizzlyViking]

Paul Inouye, on 11 March 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

About the Cease Fire timing:

We do not want Community Warfare to play so rapidly that the Clans are sitting on Terra within the first week. This is what would happen if you have short battle cycle times for a given planet. It is because of this that there is only 1 planet per border that goes into conflict.

We thought on making it a 24hr cycle to flip a planet. But this caused an extreme case of timezone bias. Depending on the hour you set the flip to, one time zone would always be the deciding timezone. This is why we broke it up into 3 time zones. Each flip happens in a +/- 1hr window around peak player times throughout the day including West Coast Pacific Time, East Coast Time and Oceanic prime times. It's not perfect for everyone but it does allow everyone to participate and have an effect on the progress of Community Warfare.

As for the Daylight Savings Time issue, this is something that Russ, myself and the engineering crew will be discussing in the next few days to determine a solution. Russ asked on twitter for feedback on the issue and he knows how East Coast players are negatively affected by this and is the reason why discussions are going forward on a solution.

Thanks for the response Paul and I appreciate that you folks are looking into this more. I don't dislike the current system and I understand the need to pace the progression of the clans to Terra. I am wondering if there are some ways of keeping the pace of the clans at a reasonable level while offering more milestones in the process to allow for more meaningful events for every time zone. Does taking a planet have to be determined only by the 15 zone assault phase model? Could the taking of each planet require taking of several regions of the planet with similar assault phases for each region?

For example, to solve the speed of the clan advance each planet could consist of six regions of 9 zones each (9 zones replacing the 15 zones of the current model)? This model would have six 4 hour assault/ceasefire phases per day instead of the current three 8 hour phases. With this model planets would be taken at anytime during any of the six assault/ceasefire cycles whenever all of the planet's regions are taken successfully or defended successfully. Battles for a particular planet could go on for days.

This is just for example of course and the numbers could be manipulated in several ways to increase or decrease the time needed to take planets. Is this something that has been considered and is there a reason it is not a viable option?

Edited by GrizzlyViking, 11 March 2015 - 02:22 PM.

[Molossian Dog]

Paul Inouye, on 11 March 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

... Depending on the hour you set the flip to, one time zone would always be the deciding timezone. ...

And this didn´t prompt you to reconsider the whole "deadline" system consisting of 15 cake slices + ceasefire?

Why on earth wouldn´t you just add up the wins of each side during a day? Getting rid of all the "X hours to ceasefire" tactics.

"But people would not play if one side has a big advantage" That´s your concern? Then -hide- it.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 11 March 2015 - 04:44 PM.

[50 50]

Interesting.
It still seems very short to me.
For people to engage in a battle there does need to be that extended time frame to allow players internationally to partake and be a part of deciding the fate of the contested planet.
It will always be difficult mechanically to balance it with the different time zones, but perhaps there are other solutions.

At present everyone fights for the planet as a whole and we end up with teams getting unopposed battles.
Perhaps dividing each planet into sections for different time zones would provide these opportunities. After all, they are planets, they rotate.
eg:
We break a planet into 3 different time zones, possibly more.
These zones are available for combat at different times to correspond with our time zones.
This it to try and ensure that players in the same zone fight over the same areas on the planet and therefore do not undo all the work of the players fighting over another zone.
Instead of flipping it hourly, have the ceasefire at the start of a week and which ever side controls the majority of the zones on the planet wins that conquest.
I don't believe we would need a lot of time zones as I'm sure players will find themselves crossing that line one way or the other and there is nothing stopping a player from staying up all night.
Having each planet broken into major zones would still allow units to stake their claim as having affected the outcome of the conquest.
It might also have some interesting community dynamics with units from different time zones becoming more aware of each other and co-ordinating efforts.

This was a bit of a spur of the moment idea but I would be interested to hear what everyone thinks.

[Joe Decker]

Molossian Dog, on 11 March 2015 - 04:41 PM, said:

And this didn´t prompt you to reconsider the whole "deadline" system consisting of 15 cake slices + ceasefire?

Why on earth wouldn´t you just add up the wins of each side during a day? Getting rid of all the "X hours to ceasefire" tactics.

"But people would not play if one side has a big advantage" That´s your concern? Then -hide- it.

I am not sure if anyone at PGI really understood the proposed System - it should be explained to them in a direct Conversation. How fast or slow anyone in CW progresses depends on how many Planets are attackable/open for conquering each Day. At the Moment you can loose up to 3 Planets per Day per Attack Lane. THAT is much too fast. The new alternate System would allow only 1 Planet a Day. Province Capitals could be set as 2 Day overall Victory and Capital Worlds could be set to 4 Days overall Victory. Pretty simple to set up.

I am not really understanding their Fears. I explained the alternate System a few Months ago and I think no one at PGI really understood how it is supposed to work.

Maybe too simple to be understandable

I come back when I got a more complicated Version again, that they can understand

btw :

What I can imagine that would be great : Each Planet needs a certain Time to be conquered, depending on its Size, Population and Military Installments. The more of these Things a Planet got, the harder it will be to conquer him (and the longer an Invasion would need)

An unimportant Farm Planet with weak Military and low Population could be done in a Day, some Planets that got Citadels and other Military Installments would need 2 or 3 Days, a Province Capital could need 2 or more Days and a Faction Capital could need 4 Days to a Week being conquered (when they will be attackable one Day)

Edited by Joe Decker, 12 March 2015 - 01:37 AM.

[Cleaver404]

I like the boxing-round idea &/or some 24-hour contribution count. Right now, the pattern of "ghost drop a planet, be ignored for an hour barely holding together a bored group of 12, in the run up to cease fire 48-60 dogpile the planet & knock it back below 50%" is not fun for... anyone. Typically the way we're running seems to be 1 company doesn't get a fight for an hour, then that company gets a fight with one other on the other side, and several others ghost drop to keep a dot from changing color (or similarly to overwhelm one to change its color).

Other than the obvious need to balance populations, maybe also give a "carrot" for defenders? If the only reason of not having more-often or even continuous territory taking is the speed at which Clans might progress, make people *want* to defend. Currently the only thing defending does for you is (hopefully, other than ghost-drop counter-attack) give you a real battle with real opponents. It's not like the doctrine pushed by our leadership is different anywhere else: always attack. If attacking & you get a fight from defenders, you also have a chance to gain territory. Maybe 2x loyalty points for defense, or extra perks or C-bill rewards for it?

Defending against Clans for a planet in a house you don't belong to is even less appealing right now (& not just for the southern houses I would imagine).

I know there are a lot of levers & carrots/sticks to feed/beat people with, but right now hopefully everyone can at least agree that the biggest enemy in CW right now ... is boredom. Ghost drops determining the fate of a planet one way or the other is not compelling.

[Cleaver404]

Speaking of populations, happy to start a new thread on this, but I would love to see a 2nd-tier to CW, too, before it comes out of Beta. And by this, I mean, consider it non-front line for canon: these could be "second-line Clusters" &/or "Provisional Garrison Clusters" for Clans & just similar for IS:

• No more than a 4-man can queue up together
  
• The rest is match-made like as in traditional non-CW drops
  
• Unique set of planets not accessible to 12-mans the way current drops are

I've been very inspired by the numbers of new players I've seen the last couple of days; but not when they get stomped 13-48 on their first ever CW drop and then yelled at by other people for messing up. It would be nice to have a less hardcore mentoring funnel to get players into CW (and knowing things like, oh, how to actually damage Omega) without the stress/pressure that can exist in current front-line CW battles.

If we all have large populations of players, we'll all be getting what we want in the end: quality fights that are also meaningful.

[Joshua McEvedy]

I just want to speak out in support of Grizz's post.

There is a big problem with the current CF times, which currently favor only those with job schedules that are anything but "1st shift." And most of us East Coast U.S. players simply cannot sit up every night to 12:30 a.m. EST/EDT since we work and have to get up between 5:00-7:00 a.m. each morning during the week. Something needs to be done, or else the map is going to end up totally out of whack, with such a brutally fast pace.

Edited by Joshua McEvedy, 12 March 2015 - 10:33 AM.

[Vincent V. Kerensky]

Terciel1976, on 11 March 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

Make it a 24-hour cycle but you have to "win" in 2/3 8-hour attack windows to take a planet. Best of both worlds.

This one is actually quite interesting... A counter must be implemented so you know exactly how good (or bad) the battle is going. If you are set on losing the planet you actually have the opportunity to withdraw forces from it and focus them elsewhere.

Good idea but I do not think it is enough. The list of expoiting such a mechanic is long. Maybe an adoptation of a similar cycle with some different rules could be the way to go?

GrizzlyViking, on 11 March 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

For example, to solve the speed of the clan advance each planet could consist of six regions of 9 zones each (9 zones replacing the 15 zones of the current model)? This model would have six 4 hour assault/ceasefire phases per day instead of the current three 8 hour phases. With this model planets would be taken at anytime during any of the six assault/ceasefire cycles whenever all of the planet's regions are taken successfully or defended successfully. Battles for a particular planet could go on for days.

Another interesting model here. One big issue is where is the reward? If such a system is implemented, they really need to give us some carrots for taking planets. Right now, it works as it is and we get the name of the unit that won the most on it.

[GrizzlyViking]

Two main areas of agreement in the posts above:

1. The current 15 zone, 8 hour, planet conquer system is too simple/easy and taking a planet should take much more time and effort

2. Players want multiple meaningful CW events happening during their prime time play hours every day, not just three 8 hour set-in-stone CF events per day that are only convenient for part of the player base.

[Molossian Dog]

GrizzlyViking, on 12 March 2015 - 02:23 PM, said:

Two main areas of agreement in the posts above:

1. The current 15 zone, 8 hour, planet conquer system is too simple/easy and taking a planet should take much more time and effort

2. Players want multiple meaningful CW events happening during their prime time play hours every day, not just three 8 hour set-in-stone CF events per day that are only convenient for part of the player base.

3. The current "deadline" system invites people to -play the system- instead of the game.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 12 March 2015 - 05:57 PM.

[Noesis]

Player populations for the EU and Oceanic timezones need a definate boost if not the entire population of MWO to help make the gameplay more regular and "smoother" statistically with outcomes.

For myself personally however there are long periods during the day EU TZ when CW just doesnt provide any gameplay opportunity at all. So what exactly am I paying for as an EU customer and why am I not then capable of enjoying the product as intended?

I think some monies need redirecting to a "steam" launch and other marketing avenues to get the news out, even if MWO can be considered having a "niche market". Either that or MWO needs to draw back those who recently played to bolster numbers again. But for that we need more meaningfull CW content provided which I guess is/has been an ongoing complaint from a number of players perspectives.