46 replies to this topic

[VinJade]

@Woodstock
Elo is still a private thing and if it is requested to join a unit then it should be up to the player to give it to the leader of the unit.

otherwise it is none of yours or anyone else's business as it is personal information that belongs to only the player who should have the right to chose to give it out or not.

your idea would strip that option outright.

as I said if it was kept private or an option to allow others to see it from the from options than that is a different matter.
it should be a choice not forced.

@Kjudoon
aye, that is what you and I have been saying how many times now?
I mean no disrespect to the OP but they don't seem to understand what we are getting at.

Edited by VinJade, 12 March 2015 - 04:31 PM.

[Woodstock]

okay ...give me an example of how the

< o >

indicator could be used negatively?

[Woodstock]

VinJade, on 12 March 2015 - 04:29 PM, said:

@Woodstock
Elo is still a private thing and if it is requested to join a unit then it should be up to the player to give it to the leader of the unit.

otherwise it is none of yours or anyone else's business as it is personal information that belongs to only the player who should have the right to chose to give it out or not.

your idea would strip that option outright.

as I said if it was kept private or an option to allow others to see it from the from options than that is a different matter.
it should be a choice not forced.

I understand your point .... Which is why i adapted my proposal. I am no longer saying there should be a ELO number available to the players. I am suggesting there is a simple graphical indication if a players number has gone up or down. this could be anywhere ... in a private place on their forum profile ... in the game client. thats not an issue for me.

I just want to be able to tell if my ELO is going up/down/staying the same. No numbers ... just movement.

[Kjudoon]

Simple. Every indicator of skill will be used to dismiss someone who isn't 'as good' as another. The internet is rife with 'appeals to authority' logical fallacies and thinking. it will only exacerbate the problem of incessant one-upsmanship
.

[Woodstock]

Sorry but can you be specific. How could an arrow that simply shows increace/no change/decrease of ELO be used to dismiss someone.

Bear in mind that if there is no change ... this could mean that your ELO is at max.

also if ou elo went down you could still have a higher elo than anyone else in your unit ...because no one would really know their position. only which direction they are progressing

I fail to see how this would be anything other than a 100% private thing.

You just wouldnt be able to compare this to anyone

Edited by Woodstock, 12 March 2015 - 04:42 PM.

[Cer6erus]

I think visible ELO would be great. Just because the community would be jerks, does not mean that we can not see our relative rank.

[Woodstock]

Cer6erus, on 12 March 2015 - 04:47 PM, said:

I think visible ELO would be great. Just because the community would be jerks, does not mean that we can not see our relative rank.

I can understand why a visible ELo would not be implemented because of the haters .... but a progress indicator would be for a very private and personal motivational tool for players.

[VinJade]

that information is still personal regardless if it is a number or sliding scale.
that would be like someone being able to see another person's credit score be it numbers or sliding bar.

as I also said before players have been wanting the ability to pick and chose whom they want to be on their teams during CWs and normal matches.

and the problem with that would be high ranking players would always stick together and leave lower ranking players to fend for themselves against high ranking players who clearly have been playing for so long everything is natural to them while those that are still fairly new or can only play casually will never be as good as they are.

with them unable to go to the forums to check out the players waiting to play elos they would be able to avoid being with those players.

now before you say 'what does that have anything to do with this' it is indirectly supporting players whom wish to have that placed in game as well.

best way to make everyone happy, make it private by default but then allow players to display it if they wish.

there that would give everyone what they want.

wood you can have people see your elo and so can others while and others who see it as a personal information can keep it hidden if they want.

it however has been shot down time and again.

however if this was to go into play than it is only one step away from what those people want as well.

so it is not only because its my personal information but for that reason as well.

besides it was already touched on by Kj as well. gamers will be gamers and you are just asking for a fight of some form or another to break out because of mocking or insulting other players for not being good enough or other reasons all based on their elos.

Edited by VinJade, 12 March 2015 - 04:54 PM.

[Woodstock]

Who said anything about a sliding scale

or a number

this is simply an arrow

It does not give any indication of your relative position on the ELO scale.

It simply says today you got better. Or today you got worse.

thats all.

To use your analogy ... It would be like saying ... Woodstock has more money today. It would not say how much money I had ... or how much money i increased by. Just that i have more.

It is completely impossible for anyone to take that statement and say ... I am have more money than you! Because at no point is my balance of money made available to anyone.

Edited by Woodstock, 12 March 2015 - 04:55 PM.

[VinJade]

it is a sliding scale but the only thing you see are arrows and a O.

like it or not < O > is a scale that can still cause people to judge others in some way.

so my question is what about the option to show it or hide it though default be hidden?

you would still get what you want while others like me and Kj would have what we want as well.

[Woodstock]

no a scale is a graphical representation that shows a minimum and a maximum. And a position on that scale.

I have never proposed that.

I am proposing a arrow ... nothing else ... no min ... no max ... just a stand alone arrow (or cirlce)

As for your idea of hiding it ... well when I played EvE it was common practice as an entrance requirement for you to show your log in screen (it showed your characters) ... that was private ... but players required it of other players before trust was given.

there is nothing stopping another player saying ... you want to join our unit huh? well then show us your ELO rating. If it is high enough you can join.

If you say no ..they say ... no ... if you want to join enough ... you will show it ... leading to potential rejection and misery

My suggestion would avoid that

The arrow would only be personal ... it would not matter if it was private or not. because it would give ZERO indication of your actual ELO score. Just if you got better or worse or stayed the same.

[VinJade]

nice side stepping my question wood.
let me rephrase my question,
if a player never plans on joining a unit and stays a 'lone wolf' then shouldn't the option still be given to allow it to be hidden regardless if it is just an arrow or O?

what harm could it be to allow it to still be hidden/seen by options in the forums other than people wanting to see what is none of their business?

[Woodstock]

I said like 10 posts back that i have no objection to it being hidden.

So long as it is an arrow and not a number ... you can hide it or not ... it makes no difference to me.

The majority of people will probably want to join a unit at some point though ... the key factor here for me is that it is just the <o>

not a number and there should be no indication given of your position on the ELO scale (1>> XXX)

just < o >

[VinJade]

Your OP does not reflect that which is why I had to ask you.

[Woodstock]

Am I right in thinking then ... If it is an Arrow ... (not a scale) and it can be hidden or shown at the players discretion you would be 100% for it?

have you been back to the OP recently and seen how its all crossed out?

[VinJade]

I said that a few times already wood.
as long as it can be (by default)hidden than I have no problem with it.

[Woodstock]

Have you change your vote then

[destroika]

This has been well discussed, ELO = Credit Score, LOL too true...

*fade to scenario*
When applying for a clan, you submit a resume of past games played and roles/responsibilities you had. You're contacted for an interview where they ask if you've ever been kicked out of a clan or guild before and why. You must explain any gaps in your clan/guild joined status. If they express interest, they get your electronic signature to run a background check on any team kills/team damage, as well as, any reports of bannings from any other game in existence. Next, they higher a game master to show your ELO, then request a team viewer session for any "contraband" use on your system whether or not it's relevant to the game. Finally, you're accepted into the clan and you get to wear a temporary tag for 90 days. After which, you receive an evaluation before being designated as a full member. You can now sign up for benefits to reap rewards of clan successes in events, but only if you can put in the hours.
*fade back to normal world*

It's a good thing this isn't happening... yet. I avoid clans, and make a living at a real job that pays me real money.

[Woodstock]

Which is why i say NEVER show a your ELO number ... just if it went up or down or stayed the same in the last 24 hours.

No way that could be twisted into fitting into the scheme you just described.

So help me here Destroika ... did you vote yes or no?

[Woodstock]

Anymore votes?