102 replies to this topic

[m]

Strikeshadow, on 09 August 2015 - 02:24 PM, said:

I do agree that deathmatch is good for competitive play, but not much fun for PUGs.

I understand that this is an excerpt from a compoud conversation where you are describing your own experience.

But for myself, I disagree. I have played pick-up game matches and enjoyed the heck out of them equally as much as playing on a team. Sure it takes some getting used to when playing without group-mates in a coordinated fashion, if that is what you are used to, but in no way is it not enjoyable and hilariously fun. Personally, I find it more entertaining and really challenging, especially when going up against an organized team in community warfare. Really enjoyed and quite impressed when our pick-up group trampled over the kcom group a couple nights ago (all we did was agree to use ecm across all our drops, simple and effective, and we did very well).

Maybe I and a few others are a unique bunch of individuals who enjoy that extra bit of a challenge of being thrust into an MWO match with people from all over the globe who barely speak the same language. I don't know. But I do know that when I am in a match with all these people from all over, and when we win on the basis of barely being able to communicate, the awesome feeling we have is mutual all around that we were able to pull it off and were able to sync our skillsets just right.

Edited by m, 16 August 2015 - 01:38 PM.

[Heartless Saint]

I voted yes but it needs to be on a bigger scale like 24v24 needs to be added in my opinion. 1 or 2 Lifes.

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

new pilots and (steam players) will need to R&R trial mechs? or need to earn millions of cbills above R&R costs just to get a stable of mechs?what if a player can't afford to R&R are they locked out of matches forced to become ex-pilots?what happens to the player base then?

[m]

Gorantir, on 30 March 2016 - 07:41 AM, said:

new pilots and (steam players) will need to R&R trial mechs?

R&R Trial mechs in CW - No

It would be ridiculous to charge people to run a trial mech. If people really have an issue against that then maybe there should be a rate that we should agree on or something to rent them for CW?? Not sure. But CW is MWO's Hard Mode.

Gorantir, on 30 March 2016 - 07:41 AM, said:

or need to earn millions of cbills above R&R costs just to get a stable of mechs?

In Community Warfare - Yes

But the figures have to be manageable. Before the costs were around 100K to 300K (I think even higher in some circumstances). We need to discover a workable figure. Fine tuning if you will.

Gorantir, on 30 March 2016 - 07:41 AM, said:

what if a player can't afford to R&R are they locked out of matches forced to become ex-pilots?what happens to the player base then?

Go to Quick Play and earn.

The player base will be stable as long as there is two modes.

Community Warfare is essentially Hard Mode...and this would make CW more interesting.

Edited by m, 30 March 2016 - 10:18 AM.

[Snowbluff]

Snowbluff, on 30 March 2016 - 10:36 AM, said:

The problem is (aside from the fact that everyone voting probably won't see this post or think about this while voting, skewing the results and leading to a **** decision), is that you are trying to solve a game issue with a non-game solution.

If by more cautious, you mean "suit there playstyle to never use ammo or take hit to avoid a credit cost," you're assuming that the people in CW aren't already loaded.

If they have plenty of credit, then no change will occur. The system will be reintegrated for no reason. Sure, some of them might now be, but the people with more money will have the opportunity to utilize a wider variety of builds, and more options means more power. Ergo, the game would be imbalanced for no reason other than "I payed to win" or "I played a ton more than you, so suck on my A-LRMs."

My post from the other thread.

[m]

Snowbluff, on 30 March 2016 - 10:44 AM, said:

My post from the other thread.

And here is the full conversation:

Snowbluff, on 30 March 2016 - 10:36 AM, said:

The problem is (aside from the fact that everyone voting probably won't see this post or think about this while voting, skewing the results and leading to a **** decision), is that you are trying to solve a game issue with a non-game solution.

If by more cautious, you mean "suit there playstyle to never use ammo or take hit to avoid a credit cost," you're assuming that the people in CW aren't already loaded.

If they have plenty of credit, then no change will occur. The system will be reintegrated for no reason. Sure, some of them might now be, but the people with more money will have the opportunity to utilize a wider variety of builds, and more options means more power. Ergo, the game would be imbalanced for no reason other than "I payed to win" or "I played a ton more than you, so suck on my A-LRMs."

m, on 30 March 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

Fine tuning of the system we had is what is needed. It was fun. You would enjoy it.


It was much more entertaining than the Care Bear situation we have now where magical fairies fix and reload our mechs.

Also everyone needs to stop with the fear of making the game worst. It can only get better from where we are currenty at.

Edited by m, 30 March 2016 - 11:03 AM.

[Imperius]

Repair and Rearm should only be added to the game if it wipes out all of everyone's C-bills for a fresh start. Basically all you want added back is a system that keeps the bad players out of decent mechs even longer this is just dumb.

Still want it then?

[dario03]

When we had it before, all it did was put in a bigger power gap between established players/big groups and new players/solo and small groups. Have a big group, tons of cbills saved up, or spend real world money? Go ahead and run whatever you want and crush the poor people. Or if you are one of the poor people then keep running those weaker mechs and save up cbills, then maybe one day it will be your turn to pick on the newbies and casuals. R&R would basically be a hindrance for newer players, a annoyance for some what established players, and nothing to those who have already saved up large amounts of cbills.

Oh and it also encouraged hiding and shutting down when matches weren't going how a player wanted them to. As in you would literally see people run off and shut down if the score was 0-2.

PGI has talked about adding PVE/single player modes. R&R could maybe work for that but not the current pvp modes.

Edited by dario03, 30 March 2016 - 12:45 PM.

[m]

Imperius, on 30 March 2016 - 12:39 PM, said:

Repair and Rearm should only be added to the game if it wipes out all of everyone's C-bills for a fresh start. Basically all you want added back is a system that keeps the bad players out of decent mechs even longer this is just dumb.

Still want it then?

Why should your CBills be wiped if it's being added to Community Warfare?

Still want it then? lol

dario03, on 30 March 2016 - 12:44 PM, said:

When we had it before, all it did was put in a bigger power gap between established players/big groups and new players/solo and small groups. Have a big group, tons of cbills saved up, or spend real world money? Go ahead and run whatever you want and crush the poor people. Or if you are one of the poor people then keep running those weaker mechs and save up cbills, then maybe one day it will be your turn to pick on the newbies and casuals. R&R would basically be a hindrance for newer players, a annoyance for some what established players, and nothing to those who have already saved up large amounts of cbills.

Oh and it also encouraged hiding and shutting down when matches weren't going how a player wanted them to. As in you would literally see people run off and shut down if the score was 0-2.

PGI has talked about adding PVE/single player modes. R&R could maybe work for that but not the current pvp modes.

This Suggestion is for reintegration into Community Warfare Beta...not sure what you are getting at.


You guys may want to delete your votes and reconsider after understanding what exactly you are voting for...it's for Reintegration of Repair and Rearm into Community Warfare while it's still in a Beta segment so we can test it.

Edited by m, 30 March 2016 - 03:44 PM.

[dario03]

m, on 30 March 2016 - 02:37 PM, said:

Why should your CBills be wiped if it's being added to Community Warfare?

Still want it then? lol



This Suggestion is for reintegration into Community Warfare Beta...not sure what you are getting at.


You guys may want to delete your votes and reconsider after understanding what exactly you are voting for...it's for Reintegration of Repair and Rearm into Community Warfare while it's still in a Beta segment so we can test it.

I'm well aware that you suggested it for CW. That doesn't change anything, so I won't be changing my vote. And I imagine most people knew what they were voting for.

[GARhenus]

I'm a bad player (check my stats), so c-bills are hard to come by. Why would I want a feature that slows my credit income?

So if I just want c-bills for purchasing mechs and equipment and RnR is in place, I'm not supposed to play CW and just grind out thru quick play?

So you're basically discouraging me from playing CW coz playing it means It'll take longer for me to grind out the c-bills so I can buy and customize my own 'mechs.

I mean, lookit that - it's basically translates to - ey, CW = slow income, stay away if you want your custom mechs. Oh you're not swimming in c-bills yet? Don't play this game mode, stick to quick play

Who would discourage people from playing both game modes?

Edited by Gar Kerensky, 30 March 2016 - 06:12 PM.

[Imperius]

m, on 30 March 2016 - 02:37 PM, said:

Why should your CBills be wiped if it's being added to Community Warfare?

Still want it then? lol



This Suggestion is for reintegration into Community Warfare Beta...not sure what you are getting at.


You guys may want to delete your votes and reconsider after understanding what exactly you are voting for...it's for Reintegration of Repair and Rearm into Community Warfare while it's still in a Beta segment so we can test it.

C-bills should be wiped because some people have stockpiles of c-bills stored up because of no repair / rearm. So for the sake of making it "fair" those storage piles would have to be wiped.

Edited by Imperius, 30 March 2016 - 06:38 PM.

[m]

dario03, on 30 March 2016 - 05:50 PM, said:

I'm well aware that you suggested it for CW. That doesn't change anything, so I won't be changing my vote. And I imagine most people knew what they were voting for.

Well your comment in the other thread didn't seem that way.

dario03, on 30 March 2016 - 01:14 PM, said:

When we had R&R before, all it did was put in a bigger power gap between established players/big groups and new players/solo and small groups. Have a big group, tons of cbills saved up, or spend real world money? Go ahead and run whatever you want and crush the poor people. Or if you are one of the poor people then keep running those weaker mechs and save up cbills, then maybe one day it will be your turn to pick on the newbies and casuals. R&R would basically be a hindrance for newer players, a annoyance for some what established players, and nothing to those who have already saved up large amounts of cbills.

Oh and it also encouraged hiding and shutting down when matches weren't going how a player wanted them to. As in you would literally see people run off and shut down if the score was 0-2.

PGI has talked about adding PVE/single player modes. R&R could maybe work for that but not the current pvp modes.

I highlighted and underlined what I am referring to. You mentioned "newer players" being hindered by this so to me it didn't sound like you fully understood what you were saying because we are talking about CW where new players are mostly absent. Also, most people I had to correct if you read this and the other thread fully where you mention what I am referring to. If you don't want to change your vote that's completely fine. No need to tell me what you've already decided.

[m]

Imperius, on 30 March 2016 - 06:38 PM, said:

C-bills should be wiped because some people have stockpiles of c-bills stored up because of no repair / rearm. So for the sake of making it "fair" those storage piles would have to be wiped.

OR instead of "wiping", which sounds like a forum fight waiting to happen (should choose another term next time lol), we could give back everyone's CBills who is involved in Community Warfare, and start fresh in that Game Mode and keep the currencies separate from Quick Play. It is Beta after all and testing should be allowed for Community Warfare. Heck I and many others here went through several Beta testing phases. But nothing should be "wiped". People earned what they earned. Let them keep it, but just not in CW..in Quick Play.

Gar Kerensky, on 30 March 2016 - 06:09 PM, said:

I'm a bad player (check my stats), so c-bills are hard to come by. Why would I want a feature that slows my credit income?

So if I just want c-bills for purchasing mechs and equipment and RnR is in place, I'm not supposed to play CW and just grind out thru quick play?

So you're basically discouraging me from playing CW coz playing it means It'll take longer for me to grind out the c-bills so I can buy and customize my own 'mechs.

I mean, lookit that - it's basically translates to - ey, CW = slow income, stay away if you want your custom mechs. Oh you're not swimming in c-bills yet? Don't play this game mode, stick to quick play

Who would discourage people from playing both game modes?

There are a lot of design ideas within this thread if you read the entirety of it. Nothing is set in stone. It's a community driven thread that hasn't even been settled upon fully, but we all like the concept of incorporating the mech sim elements of closed beta that was R&R.

There could be H-Bills which are house bills in CW separate from CBills...so effectively CW could be a separate game mode entirely with its own currency which would make Quick Play unique to itself. You'd be happy. We would be happy. It would be entirely up to you to experience the CW mode with zero effect to your mechs in Quick Play.

Edited by m, 30 March 2016 - 06:58 PM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

My personal feeling on RnR for CW is actually quite simple. [and yes I want it in]

CW's entire economy should be seperate from the normal game. Mechs bought through packs should be available to the player, but stuff we bought with c-bills should be locked out unless purchased in the CW mode itself through money earned.

I came up with an idea a long time ago [like, back when cw first released] that was about how to do this kind of economy, which was essentially liquidate the players inventory and assign a c-bill value to their account in CW based on their overall net worth within the game as it sits. This allows those of us who have put time and effort into the game to begin with to still have a bit of a leg up. Once a player as joined CW, their CW inventory and economy begins and cannot be influenced by outside sources until the next cw reset.

Once this is done, all players get a starting c-bill amount[would need to be tested for balance] to start them off, and a lance of 4 basic mechs. From here, the player can access the CW store to buy their own mechs and equipment.

This brings another level of complexity to CW. Upkeep of weapons, armor and equipment, repair time, and the resistance to using more advanced technology. One of the important things about battletech is that, these mechs are, with the exception of clan mechs, mostly junkheeps held together by "ducttape and bailing wire" as we used to say. Many mechs end up fighting without full repairs, because they were needed on the field RIGHT NOW.

The biggest issue is that CW needs it's own type of balance that's different from the basic game... but in my eyes, the biggest problem with CW currently, outside of no real reason to fight, is the fact that inventory and c-bills are shared with your normal game, when CW should be it's own mode with it's own rules and it's own economy.

[SoulReaver7500]

CW IS NOT WORTH PLAYING

[Koulkrith]

NOTE : This suggestion is made for an off the field R&R system in faction play, not an ON field R&R system. Might be off-topics... but directly linked to the concerned subject. I clearly am new to this "community suggestion" thing but played some time already. So if it's really off-topics, and you find it interesting, contact me to make me switch to a new subject.

At one point, R&R could be really interesting as a feature in both CW and quickplay... But the reward system should be modified accordingly to reflect the survivability of the mechs. Most damaged mechs can survive in the long run if managed correctly and positionned accordingly by their mechwarriors.

I also would like to see a more progressive penalty for legs, arms and head hits... For the moment, only removable parts can be critically hit and arms/legs/head have a fixed amount of HP. What if critical hits could also be taken for fixed parts, rendering the legs/arms/head progressively less and less useable.

To explain myself :

For arms, their are :
- shoulder,
- upper arm actuator,
- lower arm actuator,
- hand actuator.

For legs :
- Hip,
- Upper leg actuator,
- Lower leg actuator,
- foot actuator.

For head : Sensors, life support, cockpit

For critical hits in the shoulder or hip, the concerned leg or armed would become useless or fall as it does normally (its an additional mechanics to the HP system... so a leg/arm could still have HP left but become unusable).

For critical its in the actuator for legs, it would give a cumulative third of the actual drawback in mobility. That means if both have all actuators critted, mobility would fall under 40% but if only one actuator in one leg is critted, the mobility penalty would be far more forgiving... It would allow for a quick reaction and escape.

For arms actuator... hands actuators would be a damage buffer as they generally don't serve any purpose for weapons. Upper arm actuators would disable the ability to rise the concerned arm, under arm actuator would disable the ability to get the arm under the lock position.

For the head : cockpit results in instant death, Sensors would render the targetting system inoperant but let the mech still operating (extended survivability but unable to lock targets for the team, unable to get if target is alpha, beta or something else... For a real teamplay, that is quite a crippling feature and delays the damage ouput a little). For life support systems, the result is simply an automatic ejection even if the mech is still operational OR an ejection of the front window., leaving the pilot in plain sight (one shot kill, even with a machinegun).

This mechanics would allow for a way to continue the fight slightly longer and be a little more realistic. It has its drawbacks and advantages...

It should ONLY be integrated as part of an R&R system. People could really manage the repair costs in accordance to their playstyle. (Obviously, a guy using a quickdraw 5K as a laser vomit platform would have the use of arms actuators and a guy focusing on large lasers in the torso would not have the use for it. OR... people could adapt from one use to another according to the damage taken in actuators.)

example : Left arms actuators are broken but i don't have the C-bills to pay for the repairs... I switch to a torso large lasers for the left side and use my left arm as a damage buffer, but i still want to have a medium laser in the right arm to get some localized damage in the extreme right side, upwards and downwards.

By the way, the cost for actuator repairs should be separately standardized for inner sphere mechs, clan mechs and mech tonnage (an actuator for an atlas can obviously not be as cheap as one for a Wolverine). It would reflect the increasing maintaining cost of heavier mechs.

As part of this, the longer the mech survives with crippled arms, legs and or head... the more important the reward (if and only if the mechs continues to scout, give damage, capture...). If he plays hide and seek doing nothing usefull but survives until the end of the match or more than a minute, (meaning he at least escaped the crippling situation)... a simple refund for the crippled parts should be given. For giving more damage (at least 50) or scouting, flanking, and giving his team some help after the crippling situation AND surviving, a "crippled helper" reward could be given (5 to 20% more C-bills than the cumulative cost for damaged fixed parts)

It should normally give deeper metaplay and an increased need for tweaking if implemented correctly.

Edited by Koulkrith, 01 May 2016 - 02:03 PM.

[MauttyKoray]

For faction play I think so. It falls into the logistics mechanics that would make FW feel more meaningful.

Obviously keep it out of quickplay, where players will be able to go in order to farm CBills without any worry of losing some if not performing well.

[Koulkrith]

I really think that an R&R system could be beneficial even in quickplay, but only when one reaches tier 4 or tier 3. It would allow the new players who do not perform so well to perfect their playstyle before having this potentially hard knock on the head.

It's only when it feels hard (not impossible, but hard) that you try hard. If things seem too easy (and even at tier 4 now, they sometimes do), people tend to camp on their position and stagnate.

The thing that should be sought is a way to make people try harder at really teaming up.

If one mech is damaged and he has to pay for repairs, he will think twice before going upfront alone... When i think of it, it could also make mechwarriors act like chickens.

[Elendil]

Repair is a bad idea in every way.
Rearm is an interesting mechanic though, to help make energy weapons slightly less overpowered...

The only way I can see working is if it's a consumable item which calls a drone in. You have to wait 15 seconds for the drone to arrive, it's visible to other players as it flies in (but can't be destroyed), and when it arrives your mech shuts down for another 30 seconds while it's being reloaded.

In invasion missions I could see having a hangar players can return to to get rearmed, or skip to the next mech in their drop-deck (instead of suiciding useless mechs). Skipping to your next mech would be the same as getting killed, but not count against your stats and take a lot more time (since you have to run there and back).
Plus missiles and ACs would be somewhat more viable in drawn out battles.
The defending players could have a hangar, the attacking players could have a real dropship landed somewhere. In either case, people could intercept wounded/empty mechs on their way back and toast them (giving lights a reason to exist).