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When did boosts become Pay2Win?


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Poll: When did boosts become Pay2Win? (635 member(s) have cast votes)

Are XP and IGC boosts pay to win?

  1. No, boosts are not P2W (592 votes [93.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 93.38%

  2. Yes, boosts are P2W (42 votes [6.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.62%

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#181 Thanatos676

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 06:53 AM

I was initially not going to play MWO, as i was under the impression that all FP2 games are Pay to Win games. After doing some research and playing Tribes Ascend my view was totally reversed.

#182 Monsoon

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 07:02 AM

Nope, Xp and credit boost are not P2W, just about every f2p has them. The P2W games are the ones with boosts to damage, armor, combat speed etc.

One of my few complaint about DDO when it went f2p, was you could buy Spell Regen and Health Regen out of the store, while in a mission. That was too close to P2W, not that was the reason I eventually stopped playing it.

Edited by Monsoon, 01 July 2012 - 08:31 AM.


#183 Cid

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 07:04 AM

View PostBobfrombobtown, on 01 July 2012 - 06:40 AM, said:

Honestly, I think people who are up in arms about experience and cash flow boosters being "pay to win" just lack any real skill. So to mask this fact they will just cry about those boosters. Of course these are likely the same people who run around in CoD and CoD:MW raging every time they die and calling everyone else "noobs", using racial slurs, and other such things. That, or they're just trolls with strong dedication to the art of the troll. Either way, these people aren't likely to be taken seriously and shouldn't be taken seriously.

lmao. oh wait, you were serious?

listen dude, i care about the longvity of the game and its success, and in order to achieve that the game needs a solid and fair f2p model.
it is pretty simple actually, no happy freeplayers no lasting success, thats the way i see it at least.

not to brag or anything, just to be perfectly clear: i can afford anything this game has to offer, if i want to.
but i am only willing to spend money if there is no p2w and the grind for repairs is reasonable.

#184 Uzi Foo

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 07:04 AM

APB is an example of P2W, where you can buy guns (that do more damage) with real money that you can't get any other way.

#185 BFalcon

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 07:05 AM

As I've said elsewhere, F2P allows those with time, but no money, to keep up with those with money, but no time, if done correctly - with no advantage to either group. One group fills the servers and, if advertising is part of the model, generates higher advertising incomes; while the other group uses less server resources, but pay the bills (and since they do pay the bills, deserve to keep up with those who don't - or at least have the opportunity to).

Then you have the casual players (freeloaders) - those who only spend a small amount of time playing and don't pay anything - they don't really harm the community and will find it hard to keep up with everyone else. They're likely to be the ones complaining most about the Founder packs, I think.

Of course, you've also got the hard-core of gamers who use the servers most AND pay, but they're (I think) a relative minority - most people will be out earning money or spending time with families, but then I used to be an EVE Online scout pilot who would happily spend 9-hour shifts on gate sentry duty on ops (with 2 accounts), so... :angry:

#186 BFalcon

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 07:12 AM

View PostUzi Foo, on 01 July 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:

APB is an example of P2W, where you can buy guns (that do more damage) with real money that you can't get any other way.


Yes - and you need, if playing for free, to put in the hours to keep the decent weapons you CAN buy with in-game cash, since they vanish after a set time period (you can only rent, not buy them) - for those not familiar with the game. Vehicle upgrade packs are also available in the shop - and cost between £20 and £40, if I recall. I'd sooner have the boosted XP/cash only with cash also being a short-cut to getting gear (so your character has a windfall and gets lucky on salvage, or pushes the unit CO's son out of the way of a speeding vehicle and gets rewarded) - at least you can save up and pay for it normally (and you'll notice that the two don't stack either - it's one or the other - you can't combine the two when buying gear).

#187 PzPionier

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 07:22 AM

From what i have read so far MWO will not be pay to win.

The only benefits from paying is that you can progress faster in the game,
but you dont get any advantage in the matches itself.

For me that is not pay to win, as long as free users can get the same mercs and
same equipment (of course it will take more time)

#188 Melcyna

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 07:22 AM

And guess where APB reloaded currently sits at in the scene of F2P, hint: not very bright...

No matter how dense or dumb publishers might be, they will notice which F2P games that seems to thrive so far, and which DOES NOT...

#189 Twisted Power

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 07:25 AM

You have to understand that people who see themselves at the bottom always complain about anybody who they see as "higher" even when they are not. They use the terms "unfair" and "unequal" like propaganda words to make their target seem mean, evil, or bad.

If the game was supposed to aim for equality (which is does not and should not) then everybody would be restricted to how many hours a day they could play that way everybody would have the same # of c-bills and xp.

What they do not understand is that an online system like MWO is about how much time a person puts into the game AND the skill involved durring the combat. Only at the extreams do you not have to have both. To the point that if you could play 24/7, that even if you were not that good at the game you would be able to get more C-bills and XP then the best pilot who could only play 1 hour a day. Even if they managed to get the same amount of c-bills (due to the bad pilot having to repair to much) you would NEVER be able to catch up to that persons XP value until they hit the xp cap (leveled out all trees).

XP and C-bill increases are a way for a player to increase their play time without actually playing more. XP and C-bills can roughly be defined as "amount of time played". However, a person with full premium account generating 50% more xp and c-bills in a founder’s mech with an additional 25% more c-bills, can still gain less xp and less money than a person who is better at the game or plays the game more.

In the end however, If you take the game seriously and level up and get the parts and weapons you want. The best pilot who could only play 1 hour a day would eventually get all the things he needed to stomp ALL OVER the bad pilot who plays 24/7. At that point the XP and C-bill increase is meaningless because anything else you are buying is just extra. When you get onto the field you do the same damage and have the same equiptment as anybody else.

The people who cannot understand this will never understand this. It is useless to talk to or try and inform those people. It is like trying to describe the color red to a blind person.

Edited by Twisted Power, 01 July 2012 - 07:28 AM.


#190 Ellister

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 07:32 AM

Xp and cbill boosts are p2w only in the short term... Gives you a good headstart only, doesnt make you better, if your crap, you will still be crap in a more expensive setup :angry:

#191 Commie95

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 07:36 AM

While I don't think boosts themselves are P2W, depending on how a game is designed it can be. If for example the cost for unlocking stuff is basically unobtainable without it, then its P2W. But most reasonable games its nowhere near that.

P2W is like APB if anyone has played that. You buy a gun thats way stronger than what the avg player can get (even boosted). Of course theres a reason that game is almost dead (again).

#192 Elizander

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 07:43 AM

No one really mentions this little fact - happy players pay. :angry:

#193 Cid

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 07:44 AM

View PostElizander, on 01 July 2012 - 07:43 AM, said:

No one really mentions this little fact - happy players pay. :angry:


this.

#194 Huntsman

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 07:46 AM

I'm not taking a position one way or the other as to whether P2W is good or bad, but just keeping it real...if p2w is defined by the ability to pay money to get an ingame advantage, and in this game real money gives you a booster that gives you more ingame currency that allows you to buy better stuff to have an advantage...am I missing something?

#195 Felicitatem Parco

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 07:58 AM

A "boost" is only "pay-to-win" if that boost gives you something other players don't get. Damage boosts are pay-to-win, but MW:O has no damage boosts. Armor boosts are pay-to-win, but MW:O has no armor boosts. Speed boosts are... well, you get the point.

XP boosts will allow you to progress more quickly through the XP tree, but a Free Player can easily progress just as fast as a paying player by putting a few more hours per week into the game. Currency Boosts will allow you to buy things in the MechLab more frequently, but you can't produce any kind of Mech configurations that the Free Players can't make, themselves, so your currency can't buy you any special battlefield power.

Currency Boosts let you tinker inthe MechLab more, but it won't make you fight any better. XP boosts might help you progress through the skill tree faster, but you'll never be able to keep up with someone else who simply plays more often than you. Founder's Mech/Premium Account boosts are not pay-to-win.

And a final note to eveyone complaining about P2W: Paying $60 or $80 for a single-player console game with a campaign is certainly P2W.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 01 July 2012 - 07:58 AM.


#196 Melcyna

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 08:00 AM

View PostEllister, on 01 July 2012 - 07:32 AM, said:

Xp and cbill boosts are p2w only in the short term... Gives you a good headstart only, doesnt make you better, if your crap, you will still be crap in a more expensive setup :angry:

Like the other guy, who made a similar statement... this is technically not accurate.

The crux of that argument basically relies on the assumption that:
A. whatever you are going to purchase is needed to win at all
B. that the cost or time investment necessary for them is actually significant enough that the booster is going to make a significant gain.

Unless someone can confirm otherwise, a mech in it's fresh state should ALREADY be equipped with it's standard configuration or at least the cost to equip a mech with what one might consider standard loadout should be nominal.

The loadout may not be to YOUR TASTE, but it's not by any stretch weaker either than what you might kit the mech with...

It may well however require getting used to the loadout, and as you may have a different preference to it, you may well then decide to replace the loadout with something better suited to your taste..

THEN your CBills come into action in spades since you now have to spend them to acquire something that suits your taste, and there's every reason to believe that the cost of refitting a mech to your exacting tailor may well be expensive.

But in no way does that mean the standard loadout is unfeasible or ineffective for competitive fight.

#197 Aarioch

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 08:03 AM

I have noticed that in any F2P game you have a large group of people who will try to rationalize anything to try and make what they want to use a free part of the game...

it seems to me that this should be an understood downside to using a business model that says "free" in the title.

#198 Mossa

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 08:11 AM

Pay2Win wuld be buying a gun that outdamage all other guns. Getting more XP and/or credits its yust faster progresion. It yust shortens the time to get what you whant while not making it unfair in the battles. Instead of playing for 100h to get what you whant you can yust play for 50h.

As long its no boost towards stats other then Xp/credits/e-peen its not Pay2Win.

#199 DemiGoth

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 08:15 AM

Think I can be pretty short about it...
XP-boost is no P2W in my book. It just gives players a faster rush to max level and then they whine that it's lonely at the top :D
IGC is not P2W either... But... if the cash shop (or economy influenced by IGC) does allow to stack items till there is no tomorrow (like PWI games do) then you got a P2W situation. When looking at above comments telling it adds only a one-time 25% to dmg, then I'd say meh... Yeah, semi-P2W but an experienced played should be able to handle 25% extra damage :angry:

#200 no1madcow

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 08:15 AM

OK then it's not pay to win, what is it then. Pay to get the better components and pay to get faster experience levels(or something like that).

So basically then what you are saying is that it isn't pay to win because there is no guarantee that someone with better equipment that gains experience faster is going to win over someone that has played the same number of hours and hasn't payed for all the extra goodies???

I just don't understand it. I would rather pay to buy the game and everyone have to play to win than to have to lose to lesser qualified pilots because they were able to pay you for what i have to work for.

I have been playing mech warrior since Vengeance was first released and now I have to throw away all that experience. Now some noob that has never played the game before can buy better mechs, better components and gain faster experience than me.

thank you but i think i am going to pass. I would rather shoot at bots in my old mercs server than to have to pay extra just to be an equal in yours.

Edited by no1madcow, 01 July 2012 - 08:22 AM.






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