347 replies to this topic

[Squigles]

Red Beard, on 01 July 2012 - 10:04 AM, said:

MWO has already shown signs that they are ready to break out into a P2W formula...The founders package is a great example. They created another tier that is outrageously priced, just to test what people are willing to dump money into, and the results speak for themselves.

Just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly. PGI announces a 30 dollar and a 60 dollar package. The 60 dollar package allows you to have your choice of 1 of 4 basic mechs with a small (half of a premium account) built in credit only booster, and a unique skin. A large portion of the active forumite community demands a package that includes all 4 founders mechs.

PGI hears the cries of their customers, and adds in a 3rd package, that adds the other 3 founders mechs, 3 additional hangar bay slots, an additional months premium time, and, just for having such ludicrous dedication to the franchise that you'd pay 120 dollars before the game even launches, they're going to throw you in the credits.

Your argument, is that by daring to bow to the desires of their customer base, that they're somehow slipping into a P2W mentality by providing multiple additional features that provide no in combat benefit, what so ever. So your suggested course of action to PGI is.....ignore your customers, and do not succumb to the wiles of your player base by giving them what they asked for? Gotcha.


Edit: In fact, I'd go so far as to say that by seeing so many sales of such an overpriced package that provides no P2W features, that PGI would be even more influenced to remain on the not P2W side of the fence, seeing the kind of revenue they can produce without going that route.

Edited by Squigles, 01 July 2012 - 10:57 AM.

[Morashtak]

Class Action Lawsuit.

False advertisement.

Stating several times in print and video that only boosts and non-power items will be sold.

Founders packs being sold and money collected on the false pretense of the above statement.


Does anyone really, truly think that PGI and IGP want to see a horde of lawyers descend upon their offices? Because that is what will happen should they begin to sell items that cannot be earned by simply playing the game.

Granted, it may take a long while to earn the C-Bills needed to buy that 300XL engine you want to upgrade to. And yes, the C-Bill boosts allow someone else to get their 300XL faster IF they play at least as many hours as you do. But it will be the exact same XL engine.

[no1madcow]

Red Beard, on 01 July 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

I agree, and I do not think that any of the players that bought those items are getting anything that they should not. I think of it more like PGI testing the outside edges of what they will be able to get away with. If that many people are willing to blindly dump cash into a game that they have not played, or even seen in action (save for the select few videos that PGI has hand fed us), how far are those same people willing to go? I constantly remind myself that this game is a totally different F2P game in one single sense. It is Mechwarrior. No other F2P games that are out there right now are based on such a large game franchise. This game is ripe for milking, and I have every belief that PGI will get theirs out of it. I also believe that this game is being controlled by the grip of bean counters and not by MW enthusiasts, therefore, I take any and all statements by the devs with a grain of salt.




As long as you have "bought in", then you are right. Why should you get your name in the credits just for shoveling out 120 bones? What about the people that have followed the game with intense loyalty, from the moment it was announced as MW reboot? What about all the people that have stayed connected to every move that PGI has made, telling friends, watching videos, talking the game up, and doing everything that a fan can do to push the game? I will tell you what happens. We get to sit by and watch Johnny, the 17 year old basement dweller borrow his mommies check card and buy the legendary package right after finding the website and registering his pilot name, "I PWN BOTS ". I have a family and real life concerns that require real life money. PGI told all of the others just like me to **** off and go to hell. All the time and energy that we put into their game as fans now have zero relevance, and, not only that, but this move is, to me, a very obvious indicator as to the direction the IGP wants this game to take. Clearly, this game will evolve into a pay to win formula, and the tragedy is that most of the loyalist players that claim they are against this game going that way, are actually going to be the ones that accept it and even perpetuate it. The pay to win formula caters to elitists, and that is what this game is centered around. Elitism.

amen

[Felicitatem Parco]

[Mu]

Morashtak, on 01 July 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

Class Action Lawsuit.

False advertisement.

Stating several times in print and video that only boosts and non-power items will be sold.

Founders packs being sold and money collected on the false pretense of the above statement.


Does anyone really, truly think that PGI and IGP want to see a horde of lawyers descend upon their offices? Because that is what will happen should they begin to sell items that cannot be earned by simply playing the game.

Granted, it may take a long while to earn the C-Bills needed to buy that 300XL engine you want to upgrade to. And yes, the C-Bill boosts allow someone else to get their 300XL faster IF they play at least as many hours as you do. But it will be the exact same XL engine.

I've given the devs the benefit of the doubt so far, and I dearly hope they can stick to their guns in the face of temptation. Can you imagine how much they'd make from selling the Mad Cat as an exclusive cash shop item? They could even be sneaky and make it a temporary exclusive, with the free version rolled out a month later. I sure as hell hope that never happens, and everything they've said so far has given me faith that it won't. But I'm inherently pessimistic so the nagging fear is there.

[Red Beard]

Squigles, on 01 July 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

Just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly. PGI announces a 30 dollar and a 60 dollar package. The 60 dollar package allows you to have your choice of 1 of 4 basic mechs with a small (half of a premium account) built in credit only booster, and a unique skin. A large portion of the active forumite community demands a package that includes all 4 founders mechs.

PGI hears the cries of their customers, and adds in a 3rd package, that adds the other 3 founders mechs, 3 additional hangar bay slots, an additional months premium time, and, just for having such ludicrous dedication to the franchise that you'd pay 120 dollars before the game even launches, they're going to throw you in the credits.

Your argument, is that by daring to bow to the desires of their customer base, that they're somehow slipping into a P2W mentality by providing multiple additional features that provide no in combat benefit, what so ever. So your suggested course of action to PGI is.....ignore your customers, and do not succumb to the wiles of your player base by giving them what they asked for? Gotcha.


Edit: In fact, I'd go so far as to say that by seeing so many sales of such an overpriced package that provides no P2W features, that PGI would be even more influenced to remain on the not P2W side of the fence, seeing the kind of revenue they can produce without going that route.

Boy, that sure is a mighty pretty halo that you are painting above their heads...

You almost make it seem like people were beating down their door to be overcharged for content that is deeply shivved in the gray area of F2P games. I highly doubt that the decision to create the extra tier came from an unruly amount of requests. I think that they saw a chance to test fire their economic model, and to send out the cattle call. Judging by the results, it worked. There seems to be a large number of people that have no concern toward PGI heading toward the deeply grayish edge of scrupulous.

So, it sounds like you DON'T understand.

Edited by Red Beard, 01 July 2012 - 11:05 AM.

[Squigles]

Red Beard, on 01 July 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Boy, that sure is a mighty pretty halo that you are painting above their heads...

And that sure is a mighty fine pitchfork you're painting into their hands. You have not one iota more proof for your viewpoint then I do for mine, since they are both a matter of interpretation.

[Demoned]

just my 2 bits
look at EVE massive space opera now before you had to fork out £13 a month to play it, now i know this isn't giving an advantage in any way just like WoW, but where they differ from WoW is in EvE you can grind credits like a **** till you get half a billion and use them to pay for your monthly fee not using real money at all
would people be happy if MWO did this for the premium accounts?
you do not have the time pay for it.
you have the time grind grind grind and there you go same account stats as some one that pays for the privilege.
but the main point made for paying for premium mechs and accounts is simple, its not cheap to run servers or pay staff to look after them
those that pay for the game make the game free to all.

Edited by Demoned, 01 July 2012 - 11:03 AM.

[Sharlini]

In the end P2W is real, except my mind it means play to win. If you are playing a lot and doing your research your going to win in most games in any f2p game that allows all items to be purchased. Granted the barrier should be set at something reasonable depending on the item. Locking out the best items to having to sink in 100's of hours for example wouldn't be fair

[Tornado Dash]

As long as boosts do not give performance advantages in battle (Increased damage, armor, aiming ability), i'm fine with them.

[Red Beard]

Mu, on 01 July 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

I still feel uneasy about those who did it because they wanted to have an advantage, even a slight one, over those who didn't. And I most definitely DON'T think it's great seeing those same people going around saying things like 'you are only complaining about it because you can't afford it' which has been present in this very thread.

From the perspective of a person who does NOT have the cash to put into this game right now, let me tell you, with all sincerity,...

Thank you. You are absolutely right. I would not have chosen to purchase any of these packages even if I had the money, but you are so very right.

[Fgump]

http://www.penny-arc...crotransactions

Penny Arcade TV episode on micro transactions aka the lifeline of F2P games.

The fact of the matter is that the end game is the same no matter what path you take...... I play plenty of F2P games in which I spend no money at all because I can advance at a pace I am comfortable with and not need any boosts.

If you are one of the dudes who cannot afford a founders pack I'm sure you can hook up with a unit and mix in with people who did and you still gain the advantage on the field. This game is about teamwork not running into the fray and letting everyone out there light you up.

Edited by Fgump, 01 July 2012 - 11:18 AM.

[Moodysea]

All they need to do to double their profits is to charge 30 quid for a Timberwolf.

Case closed.

[Squigles]

Red Beard, on 01 July 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

From the perspective of a person who does NOT have the cash to put into this game right now, let me tell you, with all sincerity,...

Thank you. You are absolutely right. I would not have chosen to purchase any of these packages even if I had the money, but you are so very right.

So, out of curiosity, what would you be willing to buy to support this game? Maybe make a suggestion to them to fire up a kickstarter campaign that provides absolutely nothing to the contributor's, if that would better suit your moral standing in regards to the F2P model.

I'm being serious here, you say even if you had money, you'd not put 1 red cent into any of the available means of helping to fund this game, so make a suggestion as to something PGI can do to get you to help fund this game that so many of us have been waiting a very, very long time for.

[Boris5134]

I think the fence has been battered enough. Can we stop kicking the dead horse now?

I buy a founders pack in anticipation that I MAYBE get an hour of playtime a day for MWO. I get x amount of credits (C-Bills) additional per match for using one of the selected 4 (or all 4 for Legendary Founders) Mech's. I can then use my 1(x) credits to then purchase what every I can buy with C-Bills - say a PPC for instance. THAT PPC, is the SAME PPC EVERYONE ELSE buys. P2W? Not close enough. P2S (Play to Stockpile by playing 2 HOURS instead of 1 and being able to buy 2 PPC's vs 1 and since my Atlas's left arm just got blown off that weapon is now destroyed - ohh wait, no its not - what does it matter now?)

[Red Beard]

Squigles, on 01 July 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

And that sure is a mighty fine pitchfork you're painting into their hands. You have not one iota more proof for your viewpoint then I do for mine, since they are both a matter of interpretation.

As a well seasoned human(read: getting older), I will take my instincts and intuition over "proof" every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Besides, you have all the proof that a fan boy could want. You have the word and bond of the developers, right? They have already decreed that MWO will never go down this road, and yet here we are, walking the fine line again.

In the end, it will be money that controls what happens. Once the cost of the game has been covered, the gloves will be off. I have worked in corporate America for YEARS. There is a very important concept that exists in the world of investing, rate of return. In other words, IGP will be eager to see it's capital invest returned quickly. And why shouldn't it? But once IGP is out of the woods financially, what motivation will there be to "play nice"? After a certain amount of time goes by, there will be such a huge player base, IGP will stop worrying about losing players if they bust out a few premium, paid items that are uber-powerful. I mean...it's not against the law, is it? Why shouldn't they?! It is their game, and it is paid for. By that time, also, there will be more than enough players that accept the pay to win formula, being so deeply involved in the game already, that it will likely not even cause a small stir.

[Squigles]

Red Beard, on 01 July 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

As a well seasoned human(read: getting older), I will take my instincts and intuition over "proof" every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Besides, you have all the proof that a fan boy could want. You have the word and bond of the developers, right? They have already decreed that MWO will never go down this road, and yet here we are, walking the fine line again.

In the end, it will be money that controls what happens. Once the cost of the game has been covered, the gloves will be off. I have worked in corporate America for YEARS. There is a very important concept that exists in the world of investing, rate of return. In other words, IGP will be eager to see it's capital invest returned quickly. And why shouldn't it? But once IGP is out of the woods financially, what motivation will there be to "play nice"? After a certain amount of time goes by, there will be such a huge player base, IGP will stop worrying about losing players if they bust out a few premium, paid items that are uber-powerful. I mean...it's not against the law, is it? Why shouldn't they?! It is their game, and it is paid for. By that time, also, there will be more than enough players that accept the pay to win formula, being so deeply involved in the game already, that it will likely not even cause a small stir.

You somehow assume your fellow posters are young? Get up to date on the average age of this player base. As to the rest of your statement...LoL, they've paid for their game many times over, still not P2W over there. So you can keep your cynicism, and I'll go with the people who have worked for years and put their business on the line by attempting to bring back a franchise that has died a most horrible death in this venue years ago, which no major publisher anywhere would touch with a 10 foot stick.

[Voiddog]

Founder Mechs just have a unique skin right? Other than that they are standard?

[Squigles]

Voiddog, on 01 July 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

Founder Mechs just have a unique skin right? Other than that they are standard?

+25% C-bill payout when using it. So you get new mechs and other gear a bit faster, but as soon as you start using the other mech your money bought you, no more boost.

[Red Beard]

Squigles, on 01 July 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

I'm being serious here, you say even if you had money, you'd not put 1 red cent into any of the available means of helping to fund this game, so make a suggestion as to something PGI can do to get you to help fund this game that so many of us have been waiting a very, very long time for.

I said that I would not purchase any of the founders packages, not that I would never put money into the game. Maybe you got the idea that I plan to remain a financial hold out? I see no value in buying a product that I cannot quantify. Moreso, I also found the entire founders package to be much more of a cash grab than anything you would have it painted as. PGI trying to service the masses by offering early access to the beta? PGI trying to "hear the call" of their loyal fans? BS...all of it. They saw the energy building and found a way to cash in. I have never, in my history of being a video gamer, seen anything this ridiculous, but that's just me.

Suggestions...well, what suggestions can I make that have not already been put out there? I used to buy one or two games each year when I was young. That money went a long way back then. If I felt as though this game was made with the idea that we should, as gamers, expect a similar frame work, then I would not have this pit in my gut. But, from everything that has already been rolled out, I honestly cannot bring myself to believe that I can play this game for one year and have fun on only 50 dollars. This game is being made with idea that you, as a player, are expected to continually put money into the game, month after month, transaction after transaction.

Squigles, on 01 July 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

they've paid for their game many times over, still not P2W over there.

I don't think so. it will be a while before IGP sees all of their money back. The rest of your statement makes no sense.

Squigles, on 01 July 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

You somehow assume your fellow posters are young? Get up to date on the average age of this player base.

Not sure where you get that...I only made a comment on my OWN age. Looks like I found somebodies nerves today...