347 replies to this topic

[Moodysea]

It's why I would much rather pay 30 quid for the game and be done with it.

[Squigles]

Red Beard, on 01 July 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

I don't think so. it will be a while before IGP sees all of their money back. The rest of your statement makes no sense.

Sorry, I can see the confusion, LoL in this case was not laughing out loud, it's an acronym for another popular F2P game that's made all it's money back many times over and never slipped to P2W, despite the fact that you have asserted that that is the natural destination of F2P games in general, due to the desire for MOAR MONIES!

[Fgump]

Squigles, on 01 July 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

You somehow assume your fellow posters are young? Get up to date on the average age of this player base. As to the rest of your statement...LoL, they've paid for their game many times over, still not P2W over there. So you can keep your cynicism, and I'll go with the people who have worked for years and put their business on the line by attempting to bring back a franchise that has died a most horrible death in this venue years ago, which no major publisher anywhere would touch with a 10 foot stick.

That checks..... I really cant understand the anger some people in the community have shown towards the F2P concept or even the game in general. I have played every BT game since MW2 and I have been wishing for a game like this to come. I know there is always a chance the Dev's could screw us all over hard but hey you don't have to pay. I take them to be fans who are on to the same page as I am. Yes they will need to make money some day.... that is their right. I bought a founders pack to help the community show these guys that we are willing to put forward that money if they deliver. Its a leap of faith. Worst case I am out $120 and everyone who didn't pay can say I told you so..... and I am ok with that.

If they really want to make money they will start up a Solaris league. Ranked matches and such for personal glory always draw the masses. And that means events, sponsors, and money. And its something they can keep running alongside the campaign.

[Red Beard]

Squigles, on 01 July 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

Sorry, I can see the confusion, LoL in this case was not laughing out loud, it's an acronym for another popular F2P game that's made all it's money back many times over and never slipped to P2W, despite the fact that you have asserted that that is the natural destination of F2P games in general, due to the desire for MOAR MONIES!

Thank you. You're right, I did have that a bit backwards. I have not played LoL, but I would refer u back to my previous statement. This game is different than every other f2p game. It is MW and will therefore overpower most conventional thought about what "goes" and what does not. I also don't think that it will be the average gamer that dictates what is offered, in the long term. I see IGP catering to the long term players that have laready sunk hundreds and hundreds into the game. Why try to remain "morally" railed when there are millions to be made catering to those that actually WANT the game to be p2w.

Here is my main point. There are more players out there that will be perfectly fine with the game going down that "dark road" once it gets a good foot hold in the market. All this talk seems nice, on the surface, but the very first thing that PGI offered as paid content has already soured my taste for what they will be offering down the road. I registered here on the very first day this site went live. I was here since the start of this game, and denying players like me beta access for not having the cash to front was a really bad move.

[Red Beard]

Moodysea, on 01 July 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

It's why I would much rather pay 30 quid for the game and be done with it.

If they did it that way, they would choke off SOOOOO much potential revenue.

For the record, I agree. I would even consider paying 75-80 dollars for that complete game.

[Fgump]

Red Beard, on 01 July 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

If they did it that way, they would choke off SOOOOO much potential revenue.

For the record, I agree. I would even consider paying 75-80 dollars for that complete game.

Dude you just stood an a soap box and said you don't want to spend money on an untested/ untried product then say you would drop $75-80 on another untested/untried product with even less longevity then MW:O.......

It's called investing in potential.......

I'll petition the Dev's since you were here "first" so that you can get in with the rest of us.

Edited by Fgump, 01 July 2012 - 12:02 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Red Beard, on 01 July 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

Moreso, I also found the entire founders package to be much more of a cash grab than anything you would have it painted as.

Of course it is.... theres no publisher for them to get money from to further the game. They should what? Ask the bank for loans until they'll be using any profit they get from the game for hundreds of years to pay them back? Dunno if you are aware, it takes money to MAKE money.

[Gabopentin]

Boris5134, on 01 July 2012 - 11:21 AM, said:

I think the fence has been battered enough. Can we stop kicking the dead horse now?

I buy a founders pack in anticipation that I MAYBE get an hour of playtime a day for MWO. I get x amount of credits (C-Bills) additional per match for using one of the selected 4 (or all 4 for Legendary Founders) Mech's. I can then use my 1(x) credits to then purchase what every I can buy with C-Bills - say a PPC for instance. THAT PPC, is the SAME PPC EVERYONE ELSE buys. P2W? Not close enough. P2S (Play to Stockpile by playing 2 HOURS instead of 1 and being able to buy 2 PPC's vs 1 and since my Atlas's left arm just got blown off that weapon is now destroyed - ohh wait, no its not - what does it matter now?)

And here we have a distinct point made by a Founder pack purchaser. I as someone on a very limited budget can play for 10, 12, 18 hours a day if I choose to and my oxy bottle doesn't run out at an inconvenient time and my health holds up. But cannot afford to pay $30 (£20) because of that budget. But time costs nothing to me. So Boris's IGC bonus ans XP bonus is cancelled out by the time factor. Well done Boris for making this important poin so simply and clearly:)

[Squigles]

Red Beard, on 01 July 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

I see IGP catering to the long term players that have laready sunk hundreds and hundreds into the game. Why try to remain "morally" railed when there are millions to be made catering to those that actually WANT the game to be p2w.

Again, this all comes down to interpretation. The problem here being that you see the people who have already sunk money into the game as wanting the game to be P2W. How can you say that these people haven't sunk their money into the game to support it, believing that it will NOT be P2W. For if that is the case, the entire argument is unfounded before it can even get off the ground.

Red Beard, on 01 July 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

I registered here on the very first day this site went live. I was here since the start of this game, and denying players like me beta access for not having the cash to front was a really bad move.

They didn't deny you access for not having cash, of 10500 people that have been invited into beta, 500 of them were chosen due to being a founder. The fact that they've essentially given early access (it's access to closed beta, but since the very next phase is a full roll out of the game to everyone, and there will be no more resets after that, it's essentially a standard early access that almost every pre-order of an online game receives), does not mean that you've been denied anything for a lack of funds. Furthermore, creating an account on day 1 doesn't mean a whole lot, I lurked on these forums for months before even creating an account, because until the beta was announced, I had no reason to actually create an account. The fact you hit the create button before someone else, entitles you to nothing.

[Red Beard]

Fgump, on 01 July 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

Dude you just stood an a soap box and said you don't want to spend money on an untested/ untried product then say you would drop $75-80 on another untested/untried product with even less longevity then MW:O.......

It's called investing in potential.......

I'll petition the Dev's since you were here "first" so that you can get in with the rest of us.

Let me be even more clear about this.

I would not have spent 75-80 dollars on the FOUNDERS PACKAGE, as this is a complete unknown. I would, as my previous post states, be willing to pay that money over the course of the life of the game, buying content. My opinion regarding NOT spending any money is directed at the founders pack. I cannot justify spending money, as a consumer, on something that I do not even have, nor cannot even say that I have a reasonable amount of knowledge on. That part is a personal thing. I can understand how some people are so overly enthusiastic that they sling money around that way, and I don't hold that against anyone, it just isn't my thing.

I also think that they could have gotten a lot more flies with honey than with gall. So, if they had acknowledged those that put real time into supporting the hype to start the buzz of this game up by ANY other way than holding their hands out and asking for cash, I would have respected them a great deal more. I already plan to put money into the game, just not anytime before I can actually play it.

[Argie]

People are quick to judge that this will become p2w. If I see that on some comments section somewhere, it's probably a 4chan troll or some regular troll that won't even play the game anyways.

These devs are here creating this awesome game for our pleasure, and they know what we -don't- want.

Think about it, people paying 120 dollars to get an extra boost that really gives them no overwhelming advantage shows that this community really stands for good work. I wish I could've payed more but I'm unemployed right now -and- I live in Argentina, 60 dollars is my share of the rent here in argieland.

The devs really care about the community, because they are genuinely awesome, and also because that's the business model nowadays. communities have accomplished awesome things, like forcing a game to be on a different platform than Games for Windows live, or completely boycotted after a game becomes p2w.

TL;DR: If I read "$%&$% game is p2w bull#$/" I know it's someone trolling.


Btw, I love you guys (?)

[Red Beard]

Squigles, on 01 July 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

creating an account on day 1 doesn't mean a whole lot, I lurked on these forums for months before even creating an account, because until the beta was announced, I had no reason to actually create an account. The fact you hit the create button before someone else, entitles you to nothing.

On the surface, what you say sounds really good. A quality zinger to be sure. But your words given little credence to the depth of my meaning. Please allow me a point here.

I have followed this game, not just reading articles and such, but truly helping to build hype, since they first put the word out in 2009. I participated in every media drive they did, with great fervor. I have contributed to a great deal of input on the forums, not just here, but on every other site that had threads for this game, which goes further than some folks might give it credit for. I also have brought quite a few people in to the fold here, which will indirectly help support the game financially.

So, I hope you can see that there really is a huge deal more to "hitting the create button" than you have given it credit for. While your words SOUNDED cool, and it seemed like a really good insult, you lack the perspective of what went into "hitting the create button".

[Red Beard]

Squigles, on 01 July 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

The problem here being that you see the people who have already sunk money into the game as wanting the game to be P2W.

I absolutely was NOT referring to the people who have paid for the founders package. My reference to those that have put hundreds and hundreds into the game is more pointed at a year from now, when there will be hordes of people who are already invested in the game with tons of cash. They are going to care more about their place/progress in the game than they are about the game offering "questionable content". I hope that clears that point, though, I can see where you thought that.

[Squigles]

Red Beard, on 01 July 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

On the surface, what you say sounds really good. A quality zinger to be sure. But your words given little credence to the depth of my meaning. Please allow me a point here.

I have followed this game, not just reading articles and such, but truly helping to build hype, since they first put the word out in 2009. I participated in every media drive they did, with great fervor. I have contributed to a great deal of input on the forums, not just here, but on every other site that had threads for this game, which goes further than some folks might give it credit for. I also have brought quite a few people in to the fold here, which will indirectly help support the game financially.

So, I hope you can see that there really is a huge deal more to "hitting the create button" than you have given it credit for. While your words SOUNDED cool, and it seemed like a really good insult, you lack the perspective of what went into "hitting the create button".

It does sound better, but it changes nothing. Despite your reasons for it, and despite whatever value your argument might have had, you're increasingly moving away from your original point, and it's almost feeling like this is starting to devolve into a typical "Upset I didn't get beta for X reason" thread that so plagued the main boards for awhile. If we gave beta access to everyone who ever hyped the battletech/mechwarrior franchise, the beta servers would have been overloaded from the get go.

If you were hyping the game THAT much, it should have been for love of the game and the hope that it succeeds, which, I'm sure you did do it for, but turning that into an argument for having beta access sullies whatever motive may have gone into your actions in the 1st place.

[Refizul]

Red Beard, on 01 July 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

I also think that they could have gotten a lot more flies with honey than with gall. So, if they had acknowledged those that put real time into supporting the hype to start the buzz of this game up by ANY other way than holding their hands out and asking for cash, I would have respected them a great deal more. I already plan to put money into the game, just not anytime before I can actually play it.

So, basically you are annoyed that you didn't get prefered treatment because of you early joining date and commitment? Why should you be treated differently than all the other people on the forum? That is basically the same thing as a founder saying: "I spend money and now I'm better".

Generally I would agree with waiting till you have seen/played a game before spending money on it. But if you want to see a project realised the best way to do so is invest some money in it. Naturally, in the end it can be a disappointment but that's how life is.

[NUK3]

It's simple: Boosts don't affect your weapon systems, your armor, your motor speed, nor your piloting or shooting abilities. So there's no advantage when it comes to a match. And I really like that, since on the battlefield everyone should be equal.
As long as the system stays like that, I have absolutely no problem with it and I would support it by buying a premium account. But as soon as there are game-changing items which can only be bought using hard dollars I'll stop paying anything for the game.
To bring an example: The WoT premium tanks really aren't better than the others, they are just "more extreme". Most of them even excel being exceptionally slow and clumsy or in having a gun that can only tickle even their lightest opponents. The only exception to this is the Chinese tank Type 59 which was removed from the store extremely quickly after players complained.
So even the WoT system isn't "pay2win" which makes me like it very much.

Ergo: As long as MWO doesn't let anyone pay $s for a Clan ER PPC or a 120 kph assault 'Mech armed with eight gauss rifles and fitted with the armor of an Atlas, I won't complain. But paying for making your lasers look pink is okay.

Edited by NUK3, 01 July 2012 - 12:53 PM.

[StandingCow]

Some people really don't understand what pay to win really is.

Pay to win is when you can buy, with real money, an item that is better than anything else that cannot be acquired in game through normal means (without the use of real money).

Being able to buy a powerful weapon ahead of time, that is also able to be gotten through normal means is not pay to win.

XP boosts are not pay to win as it does not directly affect your effectiveness in battle.

Edited by StandingCow, 01 July 2012 - 12:53 PM.

[Red Beard]

Squigles, on 01 July 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

If you were hyping the game THAT much, it should have been for love of the game and the hope that it succeeds, which, I'm sure you did do it for, but turning that into an argument for having beta access sullies whatever motive may have gone into your actions in the 1st place.

I, at no time, believed that any amount of loyalty that I have shown should be parleighed(I have been wanting to use that word) into beta access. I just did not like that they handed out early access to anyone who had cash available. Does that make sense? If you have enough cash, it does not matter how much you have put into the game, you will get early access. Don't have the cash, oh well, and thanks for all that you have done, but go away. I never expect anything in return for my entusiasm, but I don't like having the things that I want handed to others simply for a quick cash out.

That said, I do not believe that those that stepped up and purchased their packs do not deserve them, I simply disagree with how it was offered. Cash was all you needed to "show loyalty". Bad. Very bad.

Refizul, on 01 July 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

So, basically you are annoyed that you didn't get prefered treatment because of you early joining date and commitment?

See above. I see you joined this discussion half way in.

Quote

Why should you be treated differently than all the other people on the forum?

You could ask the same question, but switch who you are saying that to. Why should you get early access simply because you showed up with your wallet. While that is not REALLY the heart of what they are doing, to many of us, that is how it all feels.

"Thanks for all the referrals, now shut up and get in line."

Quote

Generally I would agree with waiting till you have seen/played a game before spending money on it. But if you want to see a project realised the best way to do so is invest some money in it. Naturally, in the end it can be a disappointment but that's how life is.

I totally agree! While I have not seen enough of this game to shake even $30 out of me, I do not hold anyone's enthusiasm against them, even at the $120 level. If you are like most, you truly believe in PGI's efforts, and are willing to take a leap of faith. My hats off to those of you that take that stand.

Bottom line...PGI is in charge of making the game, IGP is in charge of taking your money and what they are going to charge for. The bean counters are ALWAYS in charge of the lifeblood of what goes on under the surface. Like it or not...

[Squigles]

NUK3, on 01 July 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

But paying for making your lasers look pink is okay.

What's funny is I agree with everything you said except for this. I'd actually complain over that one because it would let you hide what type of laser you're packing even after you fire them =)

[Schlifer]

....Soon camouflage will be an p2w item, it gives advantage of blending to your environment.