48 replies to this topic

[Wolfwood592]

If he is running dual Guass on a jager wouldnt the CASE be preventing the Gauss Explosion effect (labeled as ammo explosion) from trashing his STs?

I am kinda lost on how CASE actually works...the in game description blows.

Edited by Wolfwood592, 13 March 2015 - 07:28 AM.

[Metus regem]

Wolfwood592, on 13 March 2015 - 07:27 AM, said:

If he is running dual Guass on a jager wouldnt the CASE be preventing the Gauss Explosion effect (labeled as ammo explosion) from trashing his STs?

I am kinda lost on how CASE actually works...the in game description blows.

Since Damage normally transfers from one location to the next in this format:

LA--->LT--->CT


What case does is this for IS Mechs:

LA----.LT--/C.A.S.E./

So When the Gauss Rifle blows up, the damage would go from the arms to the LT, if that damage is enough to destroy the internals of the LT, it will still kill his mech, due to it running an XL, (3 engine crits in the Side Torso), if he had a Standard engine, that damage would have just stopped in the LT in my examples, but once it's gone, all extra damage dealt to that section will transfer as normal.

[Wolfwood592]

Metus regem, on 13 March 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:

Since Damage normally transfers from one location to the next in this format:

LA--->LT--->CT


What case does is this for IS Mechs:

LA----.LT--/C.A.S.E./

So When the Gauss Rifle blows up, the damage would go from the arms to the LT, if that damage is enough to destroy the internals of the LT, it will still kill his mech, due to it running an XL, (3 engine crits in the Side Torso), if he had a Standard engine, that damage would have just stopped in the LT in my examples, but once it's gone, all extra damage dealt to that section will transfer as normal.

Ok cool, that actually made sense to me. Thank you for the explanation.

[Kotzi]

CASE does NOT prevent critical hits or any damage resulting from destroyed equipment. Just like above explained, it only stops the reaming damage to spread more.

[Darth Hotz]

Im using 3UAC5 with 300 rounds and i pack them in the side torsos too. I have read all threats how CASE should be working, but my problem is that i encounter a different reality on the battlefield. With CASE i cant remember when i died because of ammo explosions, without it it happens a lot of times.

With CASE i hear bitching betty all the time that ammo was destroyed or that i have critical hits on my side torso, but im still alive and kicking. Without it, i just explode.

[Metus regem]

Wolfwood592, on 13 March 2015 - 07:40 AM, said:

Ok cool, that actually made sense to me. Thank you for the explanation.

You're welcome.

[Lucian Nostra]

In an IS mech
Case causes damage from ammo explosions that would overflow from your side torsos from going into your CT

If a ton of AC/20 ammo (7 rounds) was hit and explodes WITHOUT CASE it causes 140 damage. If your ST has 20 internal structure than 120 extra damage will spill over into your CT blowing your mech to shreds

If a ton of AC/20 ammo (7 rounds) was hit and explodes WITH CASE, it causes 140 damage, If your ST has 20 internal structure than 120 extra damage will NOT spill over to your CT.

If you are running an XL engine than your ST STILL took fatal damage and your XL engine is roasted.

CASE DOES NOT:

Lower crit chance on ammo
Lower ammo explosion damage
Lower the price of waffle irons in Belarus
Anything other than what I said in the above examples


The only thing that would change with XL engines and Case in IS mechs is if PGI put repair and rearm back into the game. Running case with ammo and XL engines would reduce your repair bills if you died to an ammo explosion since your CT would not be wiped out as well.

edit: and as for why mechs come with CASE and XLs its as stated before that in table top battletech if the CT of a mech is taken out the mech is a total write off. So even though the mech is knocked out of action with an XL engine and CASE it is totally repairable in a campaign making CASE pretty damned useful

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 13 March 2015 - 08:04 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 13 March 2015 - 06:00 AM, said:

CASE is absolutely useless with XL engines, for the IS anyways. CASE just contains the explosion to a single body part*, it doesn't actually prevent it from happening or even reduce the damage dealt by it. So if ammo explodes in your side torso, it still destroys your side torso if you have CASE installed. And since you have an XL engine, you die when you lose the side torso.

You're experiencing a mixture of the placebo effect and confirmation bias. RNJesus has coincidentally began to favor you sometime after you put CASE back in, but the item itself does not actually help your build in any way. You've just been lucky.



*There is supposedly a bug that CASE currently isn't even preventing explosion damage from transferring to the CT, at least for Gauss that is.

With our present rules Yes. Since transferring damage is pointless due to free repairs.

[Thorqemada]

Ammo Explosion Chance is 10% and it happens at times more often and other times less often.
I know these streaks of Ammo Explsoions as well and often have it 3, 4 even 5 times in a pretty short time window and then nothing for days if not weeks.
At times i have the feeling that Ammo in the Arms blows up more often and avoid that if possible so i put Ammo into CT, Leg and ST without CASE and also allways into the Head.

CASE still does fill up a Slot and has 10 Health imho so there is a slight chance that some of the damage to the internals is done to the CASE instead structure, ammo or weapons but a Double Heatsink would probably do better to fill up unused Slots in your Mech and pad your internal Hitpoints a tad up.

Edited by Thorqemada, 13 March 2015 - 03:44 PM.

[Lucian Nostra]

Darth Hotz, on 13 March 2015 - 07:40 AM, said:

Im using 3UAC5 with 300 rounds and i pack them in the side torsos too. I have read all threats how CASE should be working, but my problem is that i encounter a different reality on the battlefield. With CASE i cant remember when i died because of ammo explosions, without it it happens a lot of times.

With CASE i hear bitching betty all the time that ammo was destroyed or that i have critical hits on my side torso, but im still alive and kicking. Without it, i just explode.

If your running STD engines than that's because the damage does not transfer to your CT out of your ST so your still alive.

ALSO there is only something like a 10% chance that hit ammo will actually explode, so it is very likely that your getting lucky and just having the ammo destroyed. Also remember that if you've been firing and the ammo bin is hit it might only have a fraction of it's ammo left so the resulting ammo explosion could be something like 2 rounds for 10 whole damage

[Lightfoot]

CASE does not work in MWO except for removing the ammo explosion visual effect. Or maybe the CASE protection is limited to one ton of ammo in MWO. In any case, when I am carrying 4 tons of ammo in a CASE protected section and the ammo is hit it takes out the section next to it as well.

The lesson is put your ammo in the mech's legs and trust to good armor and that only dummies start out aiming for the mech's legs. Most pliot's learn pretty fast that the arms and torsos shoot back and the legs are harmless. It's 10x more effective than storing ammo in the torsos with CASE.

Edited by Lightfoot, 13 March 2015 - 08:05 AM.

[zagibu]

mogs01gt, on 13 March 2015 - 06:39 AM, said:

Move ammo to your legs. Running a Gauss jager simply tells everyone you already have an XL.

He doesn't have a gauss jager. Gauss ammo doesn't explode.

[stjobe]

I think what some people are missing is that
* STD engines take up 6 critical slots, all in CT.
* XL engines take up 12 critical slots, 6 in CT, 3 in LT, 3 in RT.
* A 'mech is destroyed if 3 engine critical slots are destroyed.

Therefore, having a side torso destroyed when running an XL engine automatically also kills the 'mech, since 3 engine critical slots are destroyed along with the side torso.

CASE does not stop damage from occurring in the location it is mounted, it only stops it spreading further inwards.

If it was possible to mount CASE in the arms, an ammo explosion in that arm would not spread to the side torso.
CASE in a side torso does not save the side torso, but it does save the CT.

A 'mech with a STD engine survives an ammo explosion in a side torso if it has CASE in that side torso.
A 'mech with an XL engine does not survive an ammo explosion in a side torso even if it has CASE in that side torso, because the side torso contains three engine critical slots.

Edit: It is possible to survive an ammo explosion in a side torso if you're running an XL engine, provided the ammo bin that explodes contains less ammo damage than the side torso has Internal Structure, say for example an ammo bin with a single round of AC/5 ammo left wouldn't destroy the side torso or the 'mech. Having CASE or not would make no difference in that scenario though.

Edited by stjobe, 13 March 2015 - 09:37 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Mister D, on 13 March 2015 - 06:46 AM, said:

What about crit rolls though?

Would CASE intercept so to say a crit roll just by being there in place of an empty slot or ammo slot that might have otherwise rolled a crit to the ammo or engine?

I know on Clan mechs it doesn't matter, because it isn't actually occupying any space, but on IS mechs, its an object that takes up a slot.

Pretty sure it's like Structure and Armour slots, doesn't count as crit padding, nor can it be crit.

[KhanCipher]

Joseph Mallan, on 13 March 2015 - 07:58 AM, said:

With our present rules Yes. Since transferring damage is pointless due to free repairs.

and... here's the post complaining that MWO isn't a BTU sim...

[Johnny Z]

Omni mechs dont need CASE right? It is built in?

[FupDup]

Johnny Z, on 13 March 2015 - 10:07 AM, said:

Omni mechs dont need CASE right? It is built in?

Yup, it's weightless and slotless on every body part for Clan mechs, always installed.

[Metus regem]

Johnny Z, on 13 March 2015 - 10:07 AM, said:

Omni mechs dont need CASE right? It is built in?

Sort of...
Clan Mechs have it built in. IS Omni's still have to pay for the tonnage and crit space... oddly enough most IS Omni's do carry case.

[FupDup]

Metus regem, on 13 March 2015 - 10:11 AM, said:

Sort of...
Clan Mechs have it built in. IS Omni's still have to pay for the tonnage and crit space... oddly enough most IS Omni's do carry case.

The Avatar has double hardwired CASE...with an XL engine.

Edited by FupDup, 13 March 2015 - 10:16 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Well since Omni mech XL engines dont explode on side torso loss, I guess it is a good thing they get free CASE. The more I learn about "easy mode" the more easy it seems.