66 replies to this topic

[TercieI]

Modo44, on 13 March 2015 - 10:26 AM, said:

You can always build a 6xML Firestarter or Jenner, and replace one laser with a TAG. ECM from a Raven 3L would be nice, but the mech is generally weaker in a fight.

You can shave a bit of engine or a DHS off the 2ERLL build and include a TAG pretty easily, like this or this.

[RazorbeastFXK3]

BAP is good to have which extends your radar range and it also detects shutdown 'mechs that are near your position.

ECM is best to have when scouting but keep in mind that it can be countered (Either by Enemy using ECM in Counter Mode or someone hitting you with PPC/ER PPC as those weapons disrupts the ECM for a few seconds) and just because your enemy can't see you on their radar doesn't mean they won't be able to see you with their naked eyes.

TAG laser is great for exposing enemy 'mechs under ECM and it allows your team equipped with LRMs to lock onto the TAG'd enemy faster but as someone else mentioned it does expose your position in the field a little as anyone can see the thin red laserbeam.

NARC is good to have if you have a missile hardpoint because when you land a NARC Beacon on an enemy, regardless if anyone has them targeted or not they will show up on the radar and HUD for your entire team. Most players ask their team if there are any LRM users in the ranks 'cause if there aren't, all the NARC Beacon will do is let everyone know where that enemy 'mech is.

Most players will have either an ER PPC/PPC, Large Laser or ER Large Laser so they can engage their target from a distance.

UAV is good to have as it's a quick way to reveal enemy positions but it can be shot down so be mindful of whether or not the enemy can see it used. There have been plenty of times where a friendly or an enemy will launch a UAV and it'll get shot down within 5 seconds of it in flight.

The Seismic Module is great to have so your enemy has less chance of sneaking up on your six and taking you out while you're sniping/scouting (only works when you aren't moving yourself) It also works great when you are in certain maps for detecting movement above/below your position and reporting the movement to your team.

The Zoom Module is great but it gives you severe tunnel vision from what I've seen.

In River City (Night) if you want to see anything at range it's best not to use Night Vision. Thermal Vision gives you a chance to see heat signatures but the downside is you have a higher chance of not being able to see the cold buildings when moving around.

In Caustic Valley, those giant plumes of smoke near the middle of the map can be seen through using Night Vision so you'll be able to see enemy 'mechs peeking out over the ridge. I had a blast with the trial Shadow Hawk 'mech wielding the AC5 just pegging enemy 'mechs here and there on that map through the smoke from a distance.

Edited by RazorbeastFXK3, 13 March 2015 - 10:34 AM.

[John80sk]

By the way, I generally wouldn't recommend TAG on a light. Laser designators are only a good idea when the laser is invisible. I sure wouldn't ever use one in a hide site if it shot a big red beam out of it anyways

[Modo44]

Terciel1976, on 13 March 2015 - 10:29 AM, said:

You can shave a bit of engine or a DHS off the 2ERLL build and include a TAG pretty easily, like this or this.

Thus making it even weaker in a fight. I would rather not.

[Lightning0861]

@ John. You pretty much hit it. I obviously don't just want to scout and call in IDF as you said anyone can do that. So I guess the question is are there lights out there that can bring a punch to a fight and make a difference with the added benefit of being quick and ya tagging.

[TercieI]

Modo44, on 13 March 2015 - 10:33 AM, said:

Thus making it even weaker in a fight. I would rather not.

I would rather not anyone play "support" mechs that spend their teammates' armor and under-contribute to the fight, but what are you going to do? <shrug>

[RazorbeastFXK3]

There are times when I've popped up behind an unsuspecting enemy LRM boat and sat there with a TAG painting him which allowed me to disable their ECM cover without being detected myself. 'course when they turned around I was exposed but it was still pretty good.

John80sk, on 13 March 2015 - 10:33 AM, said:

By the way, I generally wouldn't recommend TAG on a light. Laser designators are only a good idea when the laser is invisible. I sure wouldn't ever use one in a hide site if it shot a big red beam out of it anyways

[990Dreams]

Tarogato, on 13 March 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

I spent most of my learning experience in this game trying to play a spotter mech. Specifically, a Narc Jenner.

I felt like I was doing good and helping the team at the time...

but looking back on it it was terrible. I wholeheartedly do NOT recommend going the scouting/spotter route as a new player. There's simply not much use for that role in this game - you end up being a liability to your team because you can't pull damage numbers and secure kills. In group queue with a group of friends you might be able to use a spotting mech, but in solo queue your teammates just won't consistently take advantage of your assets and you'll find yourself very frequently limited by the amount of damage you can't do.

You can try a Raven, but keep it mind the only ECM variant (you'll want ECM if you're doing scouting and spotting) doesn't have jumpjets, so it can't access a lot of good spots very easily. On the bright side, Raven's are capable of dishing out a lot of hurt if you build and play them right, so if the whole scouting thing doesn't work, you can go other directions with them. =]

Oh... and another thing about scouting and spotting: you don't deal damage, so you don't make very much money, so buying mechs and equipment becomes an insurmountable grind if you don't have a solid money-making mech laying around.

You're mostly correct, but spotting in the group queue can be very valuable if you do it well.

[RazorbeastFXK3]

Commando and Spider are good 'mechs for scouting with speed and decent weapon loadout. Raven isn't as fast but it's another good one. They can get pricy though as you might have to buy the XL engines for them.

By the way, if/when you get tired of using a 'mech you mastered, make sure to strip all the armor/equip/weapons before selling it so you will be able to apply the equipment/weapons/armor to future 'mechs you get. But if you have a crapload of medium lasers feel free to sell off excess stock for extra c-bills to put towards purchases. At one point I had over x100 medium lasers so I sold half that stock and was able to buy more armor/heatsinks.

Lightning0861, on 13 March 2015 - 10:38 AM, said:

@ John. You pretty much hit it. I obviously don't just want to scout and call in IDF as you said anyone can do that. So I guess the question is are there lights out there that can bring a punch to a fight and make a difference with the added benefit of being quick and ya tagging.

[Modo44]

Terciel1976, on 13 March 2015 - 10:39 AM, said:

I would rather not anyone play "support" mechs that spend their teammates' armor and under-contribute to the fight, but what are you going to do? <shrug>

I see you like talking a lot, so talk to the hand. I put my recommendations plainly.

[YCSLiesmith]

Lightning0861, on 13 March 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

Thank you for the quick reply good sir. Can every light mech make room for a target designator (painting targets for my team). Keep the suggestions coming I am going to really need the help. I know serious pain will be coming my way.

i know that thematically you want to be a target designator, but you should be aware that Tag sucks (and actually LRMs in general suck)

if it's playing the role you want and you don't care that it's suboptimal, you should invest in NARC rather than tag. When you are tagging, you can get shot, and you're doing no damage and contributing nothing to the team. any time you are tagging you are better off just shooting guys with gauss or er large lasers or something. NARC will still be a waste of tonnage but it's pretty silent when it hits, you won't have to sit in danger while holding locks, and it still works after the enemy has run around a corner.

really though just getting into position and targeting the enemy will be enough to let your team know where they are. A good scout (in this game) focuses on finding the enemy, coring out stragglers and AFKs from behind, and sniping from afar. You can't really go wrong with an elited Raven 3L with a fast engine, ECM, 2 er large lasers and a module to up your erll range.

Edited by YCSLiesmith, 13 March 2015 - 10:57 AM.

[YCSLiesmith]

RazorbeastFXK3, on 13 March 2015 - 10:40 AM, said:

There are times when I've popped up behind an unsuspecting enemy LRM boat and sat there with a TAG painting him which allowed me to disable their ECM cover without being detected myself. 'course when they turned around I was exposed but it was still pretty good.

in that same mech you could have cored him out from behind, though. and if he was an LRM boat then if you got close enough there would be nothing he could do about it, probably had like two piddly little mlas or machine guns or something. so sure breaking ECM is nice but murdering enemy mechs is much nicer.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Lightning0861, on 13 March 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

Heh! Opinions and experiences seem to vary. I guess is there a middle ground? A light with good punch that can tag. Like you guys said the raven variant. or maybe a medium with good mobility and good enough firepower for those pug matches?

Here's Smurphy's Site, it's an excellent resource to bookmark.

So for light mechs, you can consider Firestarters for your first mechs (you'd need three to continue progress in unlocking efficiencies), they can mount the most armor of the different lights as a 35 tonner, and have some of the best hitboxes of any mech in MWO.

And since equipment is expensive such as XL engines and unlocking Double Heat Sinks. Firestarters can also run fine with their stock engine since they have good hitboxes and can mount a high alpha also. Jump Jets also help a lot.

---

For Mediums, Hunchbacks are often come highly recommended, and you can get a feel for different weapons with the different variants available.

But I'd say Stormcrows are likely the best Medium mechs and they have good hardpoints for Lasers and/or Missiles, And Omnipods help experiment with just one mech owned.

Then if you are interested in spending a bit of money, you could consider getting enough MC for the ShadowHawk Mastery Bundle, available in store, it has some nice goodies, and Shadowhawks are great Mediums, but have rather bad stock loadouts in many cases for MWO matches.

Griffins and Wolverines are other nice options, but they can get expensive to grind C-Bills for, as a first mechs to get three.

[RazorbeastFXK3]

Mmm.. last I knew the TAG laser goes pew pew and didn't suck 'cause I've never been sucked by a TAG unless you have and I'm just missing something. And as for LRMs they mostly go whoooosh through the air and they hit their targets with loud bang/boom sounds and I haven't been sucked by those either.

YCSLiesmith, on 13 March 2015 - 10:50 AM, said:

i know that thematically you want to be a target designator, but you should be aware that Tag sucks (and actually LRMs in general suck)

It's more helpful to call out targets through the text/voice comms than just running out and marking a target 'cause just because you're marking a target doesn't necessarily mean your entire team is paying attention to your target. Sure they may see it on their radar but they might be engaged with another target at the same time unable to give support to attack your target.

YCSLiesmith, on 13 March 2015 - 10:50 AM, said:

really though just getting into position and targeting the enemy will be enough to let your team know where they are. A good scout (in this game) focuses on finding the enemy, coring out stragglers and AFKs from behind, and sniping from afar. You can't really go wrong with a huginn or elited Raven 3L with a fast engine, ECM, 2 er large lasers and a module to up your erll range.

[RazorbeastFXK3]

I could've taken the target out but the detail I left out was that all the enemy had to do was sneeze on me and I'd be dead as most of my armor was stripped getting to that position and battling with other enemies. The boat was an assault 'mech with more health than what I had and yeah as nice as it is to kill enemies it's nicer being able to survive at the end of the match.

YCSLiesmith, on 13 March 2015 - 10:58 AM, said:

in that same mech you could have cored him out from behind, though. and if he was an LRM boat then if you got close enough there would be nothing he could do about it, probably had like two piddly little mlas or machine guns or something. so sure breaking ECM is nice but murdering enemy mechs is much nicer.

[John80sk]

Lightning0861, on 13 March 2015 - 10:38 AM, said:

@ John. You pretty much hit it. I obviously don't just want to scout and call in IDF as you said anyone can do that. So I guess the question is are there lights out there that can bring a punch to a fight and make a difference with the added benefit of being quick and ya tagging.

Scouting in MWO generally means going off at an angle the enemy is less likely to be watching, and with quick exposure times painting the enemy team by cycling the R key. If they're under ECM then just calling the grid in chat or over voice. The actual role of scouting though only consistently pays dividends in organized groups though, so keep that in mind (you can lead a horse to water).

The best spotters are generally long range mechs, TAG is an option but I generally wouldn't recommend it. Chances are there will be at least one mech that isn't hanging around in the ECM bubble you can target. If you're sneaky you can probably pop a UAV over them as well which will cancel ECM until somebody shoots it down (and based off what I've seen in PUG play, I'm the only person who even knows you can shoot them down ).

The Spider 5D is an option, you have to truly suffer to master it though with the other variants.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b84552ef03b09b8

So is the Raven 3L.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f2482dbbe34c5c4

Neither of these will do well against other light mechs in a straight fight, but have serious late game carry potential IF the enemy lights are eliminated. As long as you position well, trade often (and well), and manage not to get jumped (this is mostly positioning, with a little situational awareness) it can lay down as much hurt as close range lights over the course of a game.

The firestarter can also scout, but it's less ideal for extended periods of spotting because it's most effective at close range and generally doesn't want to expose itself for more than a laser burn until the main fight has begun. Long range lights can be exposed until something with long range firepower turns its direction. Note I did not say shoots its direction, I said turns.

EDIT: Also, while any mech can drop arty/air, a well positioned light can generally do it better, so something to keep in mind. Bigger mechs are limited by enemy cover in where they can place them, but a raven on the high ground who's unnoticed can line up that perfect airstrike to hit the majority of the team.

Edited by John80sk, 13 March 2015 - 11:16 AM.

[TercieI]

Modo44, on 13 March 2015 - 10:47 AM, said:

I see you like talking a lot, so talk to the hand. I put my recommendations plainly.

Huh? I said first off that it was a pointless role in MWO. The Raven build was just a "well, if you must..." What part wasn't clear?

[Macksheen]

Terciel1976, on 13 March 2015 - 11:22 AM, said:

What part wasn't clear?

The internets, duh.

[YCSLiesmith]

RazorbeastFXK3, on 13 March 2015 - 11:02 AM, said:

I could've taken the target out but the detail I left out was that all the enemy had to do was sneeze on me and I'd be dead as most of my armor was stripped getting to that position and battling with other enemies. The boat was an assault 'mech with more health than what I had and yeah as nice as it is to kill enemies it's nicer being able to survive at the end of the match.

an assault mech lrm boat is gonna have 6-8 armor on their rear torsos and will be worthless at close range. also they are so slow that you can keep behind them coring them out without them ever even facing you properly. I've done it to daishis and crabs and atlases and its always fun. as long as you can go 100+ kph and have room to maneuver at all you've got any solitary assault mech dead.

[Chaos Strike]

Lightning,

I noticed just about every reply has been about IS Mechs. The Kit Fox is a Clan Mech currently on Trial. Give it a try and see if it fits what you are looking for.

It is fairly quick, has ECM, TAG and an ERLL for ranged punch. Just wish it had jump jets for better mobility.

It should at least give you a good feel for whether or not this is your type of play, before you start investing your hard earned C-bills.

* editted to remove comment some might take offense to. Sorry.

Edited by Chaos Strike, 13 March 2015 - 02:49 PM.