66 replies to this topic

[Icthelion]

OP... welcome to the game mechwarrior!

Just my opinion, but being a scout is probably the pinnacle of ability level. It requires an intimate knowledge of the maps, where the best place to position yourself, and knowing the likely routes the enemy will take. I have been in this game for only 3 months, and while I consider myself competent (not highly skilled), I make a poor scout.

I think if being a scout is fun for you, start mastering the lights, and when you die, spectate what other lights are doing.

Have fun and welcome to the game!

[xxREVxx]

Lightning0861, on 13 March 2015 - 09:12 AM, said:

Its what I did in the military (I was a Forward Observer) and I would like to play this roll in MWO. It just seems like the learning curve is very high and that it doesn't work well in PUGS this is pure speculation on my part. Can any veterans lead me in the right direction? What light/scout Mech is best suited and what is your load out like. How do you actually pilot your mechs in order to be effective?

13B2O right here, bro!! Hooah!

Also, the finest terrain sketch artist the arty has ever seen

Edited by Reverend Poison, 13 March 2015 - 05:34 PM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

^^^^ What Icthelion said. Spectate spectate spectate. You'll learn much faster that way.

I'm a dedicated scout. Its not easy but much fun. I go with the Raven 3L. Learn to get within 800m of the enemy main body without being spotted. This sometimes means NOT taking the shot that will give your position away.

Also, as others have complained, MWO is not scout dependent. Most teams will expect you to take on other roles too - escort the main body with your ECM cloak, hang with the assaults and pick at their targets while staying out of their way, chase lights away that are harassing your team's flanks.

The 2ERL build is solid, but it has two weaknesses 1) your alpha versus other lights does less damage and requires a longer burn time (lasers held on target) and 2) to take advantage of your max range you often have to stop and line up your shot - stopping is bad for lights and usually gets you killed.

So play around with the 2ERL, its good. But also look at a large pulse / 2 med pulse build. You can fit the max engine in it and go 150. You can still do long range recon to scout/spot. And you'll be able to hold your own in a 1vs1 fight with an enemy light (you'll often bump into one while scouting). I also like that pulse laser require less "face time" when you are back on the main battle line - the more time you are exposed to deliver damage, the more you die.

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 13 March 2015 - 05:36 PM.

[Tim East]

Flak Kannon, on 13 March 2015 - 09:52 AM, said:

Another option might be Commander 2D. It also has ecm and a hardpoint for a Tag and can match the max speed of the Locust Pirates Bane.

Their damage output iis low, so if you want to deal damage these really aren't it. But can do the spotter roll the best.

Uh, I must be doing it wrong then, because the PB still has my highest damage match to-date. Though, I've come close to topping it in my 1E a couple of times. I really like the new 1E.

Terciel1976, on 13 March 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

Every mech must be first and foremost an effective fighter. Anything else is somewhere between secondary and irrelevant. Also, what scouting is useful requires a deep understanding of the maps and the various possible movement patterns that each one allows and that's exactly something a new player doesn't know. If you want to be an effective scout, make it an "eventual" goal and learn how to fight in a light mech first and come to understand the flows of the various maps.

This Sir, is the best summation of my thoughts on the very matter I could have asked for. As a former Soldier, the OP surely knows that one must be able to use their rifle before even thinking about getting shipped off to AIT. It may even go without saying, though your doing so was handled eloquently and succinctly, Terciel.

Also, 13 series, all day, all day.

With regards to scouting as a secondary function, there is no piece of equipment I can recommend more highly than the Beagle Active Probe. For a mere ton and a half, you automatically negate the nearest ECM unit within close range, AND gain an extended detection radius for elements that are not under ECM, AND gain faster target data on any mech you target. It's amazing, and almost any mech can afford it.

I can't really recommend TAG as highly, due to the unfortunate fact that like tracer ammunition, TAG effectively functions both ways, giving away your position for using it. This fact makes it far too risky to use on almost any mech in my opinion, even if it does generate additional revenue some of the time when used.

On the other hand, I suppose that it is highly dependent on your playstyle. If you are like me, and prefer more or less knife-fighting the enemy, BAP is far better due to the ECM cancellation factor. If you prefer sniping like a lot of people, I could see it going either way, or even equipping both, since TAG can counter ECM at range and BAP can extend sensor range vs non-ECM targets.

Just my 2 c-bills. Good hunting.

/edit: Oh yes, NARC. I forgot about NARC. I don't like how much tonnage it costs, but I like it a little better than TAG since you can sticky someone and then run away like a maniac screaming "whoopwhoopwhoopwhoop!"

Edited by Tim East, 13 March 2015 - 07:50 PM.

[MavRCK]

Firestarters

Google Krivvan and watch his video on leveling firestarters. Master that and you'll be an awesome light pilot.

actually i found it for you

Edited by MavRCK, 13 March 2015 - 07:51 PM.

[Tim East]

LOL, Firestarters don't make you an awesome light pilot. They're the strongest light in the game; if you want to work on being a better pilot, you need to use something weaker. Commandos for stealth and twisting, Locusts/Spiders for hit and run or precision gunnery, and Ravens if you want practice limping a lot and with a wide variety of weapon types. Maybe Jenners if you want to gain a feel for how the meta always changes and just because something was top-dog doesn't mean it will be forever. Panthers for what it feels like to drive an under-armored medium. Panther is a very good training mech, akin to the ambush Commando, except jumpier.

[Neutron IX]

Welcome OP!

So, as you have learned, opinions vary on "best" way to play (or NOT to play ) a "scout".

Personally, you'll actually find that lights, when played well, can deal a great deal of damage, in addition to your ability to scout, as well as the fact that when played strategically, they can cause a great deal of disruption in the enemy ranks.

Yes, the learning curve can be steep, but in truth, it's really the most fun I think I've had in this game to be honest.

I will absolutely agree with something I read in here earlier from someone else, that NARC is probably preferable to TAG in most "scout" situations, since you can fire and forget, rather than stay eyes on target in one place with a laser tracing back to you and marking out your own location. Not saying TAG can't be done, or can't be useful, but generally speaking, NARC will be superior. For that role, just about every Light has a missile version, though generally speaking, due to ammo weight, you are better off putting it in a RVN-3L Raven, Anansi-Spider, Jenner, or X5-Cicada if you want to go the NARC route (RVN-3L is my personal favorite for this role, since ECM and NARC launchers pair beautiful).

Spiders are great for that high speed/high flying role, and using them, you can traverse the most difficult terrain to great advantage. Most variants do not hit terribly hard, though I have seen them used to great effect by better pilots than I.

Firestarters are the Kings of dealing damage in Light mechs currently, and are frustratingly difficult to hit due to what I understand is a hit-box issue that will likely be addressed by PGI at some point in the future.

Commandos have the potential to be the fastest mechs in the game (followed very closely by my personal favorite, the Locust), and can carry a respectable weapon/armor mix to boot.

Jenners are sort of a Spider/Firestarter hybrid, and in fact used to be the top damage dealer in the light family on average, prior to the introduction of the Firestarter.

Ravens as a group, are an incredibly diverse batch of mechs, with just about every variant occupying a very different role they serve best at. Huggin and RVN-3L are the current favorites, operating as damage dealer and stealth striker/spotter/sniper respectively.

If/When you feel prepared for a more advanced degree of difficulty, I would point you to our little community of resident "Loc-oholics" over in this thread, and prepare for the most fun you've ever had dying over and over in a video game...

Good luck to you Mechwarrior!

See you on the battlefield! 07

[Neutron IX]

Oops, my buddy Tim East has reminded me with his post...I forgot the Panther...

To be fair, they're newer to the game, and I haven't really played mine yet, but still...rookie move.

Also, I haven't included Clan mechs, since I don't really play them a ton, since I'm really mainly IS through and through.

*Edited to add, even though the Cicada is not a Light, you will often see it lumped into the "Scout" role with the other Lights due to it's speed capacity, and ability to field ECM in the CDA-3M variant, and it really does manage that role pretty well overall.

Edited by Rip Snorgan, 13 March 2015 - 08:27 PM.

[Neutron IX]

Tim East, on 13 March 2015 - 07:48 PM, said:

Uh, I must be doing it wrong then, because the PB still has my highest damage match to-date. Though, I've come close to topping it in my 1E a couple of times. I really like the new 1E.

This Sir, is the best summation of my thoughts on the very matter I could have asked for. As a former Soldier, the OP surely knows that one must be able to use their rifle before even thinking about getting shipped off to AIT. It may even go without saying, though your doing so was handled eloquently and succinctly, Terciel.

Also, 13 series, all day, all day.

With regards to scouting as a secondary function, there is no piece of equipment I can recommend more highly than the Beagle Active Probe. For a mere ton and a half, you automatically negate the nearest ECM unit within close range, AND gain an extended detection radius for elements that are not under ECM, AND gain faster target data on any mech you target. It's amazing, and almost any mech can afford it.

I can't really recommend TAG as highly, due to the unfortunate fact that like tracer ammunition, TAG effectively functions both ways, giving away your position for using it. This fact makes it far too risky to use on almost any mech in my opinion, even if it does generate additional revenue some of the time when used.

On the other hand, I suppose that it is highly dependent on your playstyle. If you are like me, and prefer more or less knife-fighting the enemy, BAP is far better due to the ECM cancellation factor. If you prefer sniping like a lot of people, I could see it going either way, or even equipping both, since TAG can counter ECM at range and BAP can extend sensor range vs non-ECM targets.

Just my 2 c-bills. Good hunting.

/edit: Oh yes, NARC. I forgot about NARC. I don't like how much tonnage it costs, but I like it a little better than TAG since you can sticky someone and then run away like a maniac screaming "whoopwhoopwhoopwhoop!"

I agree with you on both BAP and TAG, so, so, so much man.

I have BAP on every mech I can shoehorn it into, and I've never regretted it on any of them. TAG I only have on one mech, a LRMisher JM6-A, that uses it and an ERPPC to break ECM outside of the range of its BAP. I do think it's pretty recommended for larger LRM boats though (even though I don't have any myself) like Stalkers for example. I've also seen people use it more like a "Laser Sight" and pair it with longer range sniping weapons to relatively decent effect.

[Tim East]

Rip Snorgan, on 13 March 2015 - 08:25 PM, said:

Also, I haven't included Clan mechs, since I don't really play them a ton, since I'm really mainly IS through and through.
overall.

Ah yes, my error. I neglected the Clan mechs. I don't really know a lot about these, though my freebie Adder tends to play more like a medium than what I consider a light. Clan weapons seem to run very hot in my experience, and I wound up using an LB2X and three SPL alongside the obligatory flamer that I hate so much to basically just run this thing as a troll mech. I don't know if LB pellets induce screenshake for anything, but I like them better than the stock ERPPCs. A single salvo with those put me over 50% heat, and I just said, nope, new build.

The thing about clan mechs is that they're kind of goofy. The mediums tend to run fairly fast, and the heavies tend to run faster than most comparable IS mechs, but the lights are...kind of slow. Until we get the Fire Moth. I wish.

Anyway, based on the speed, armor, and firepower mountable on them, I'd say treat clan lights as similar to the Panther, though this is just conjecture, and unlike the Panther, do NOT use ERPPCs. Pick missiles or something. I do believe that clan active probe is supposed to not be as good as BAP in some way? But still, between it and TAG for the same tonnage on clan mechs...not a hard choice. CNARC may be better. I haven't looked at it yet.

[zeta44]

I would suggest a kit fox or mist Lynx, both mobile clan lights, the kit fox can carry more guns, but the Linx can move faster, both can carry ECM and jump jets (though for the kit fox it may require omnipod modifications) both mechs also carry long range weapons, so the ECM, jump jets, a PPC or LRG laser, combined with a vision module should get an excellent long range mech suited for mobility and (with the ECM) sneaking behind the other team and giving your team targets

[Cptn Goodvibes Pig of Steel]

G'day,


I saw your post and suspect that some of the initial replies missed the point of what a "forward observer" is all about. I've always thought of this as not being in a direct combat role, but one where you try to remain unobtrusive, unobserved and get about your work of marking or painting targets for artillery. In our case, some of the bigger and more dangerous mechs on the battlefield. As some posters have remarked, there is generally not a distinct role for this, though I'd suspect that in an organised team event, like community warfare, such a design might be considered valuable.

What I'd go for, is the Commando 2D. Basically, this is not a sniper or anything that needs to kill other mechs with direct fire. Its job is to stick around and make it easier for its compatriots to do this. It is a mech that whilst having minimal defensive weapons, has an ability to approach its target unseen and with stealth, mark its target and then quietly slip away or disappear into the background again. I have yet to test this in practice, as I am not part of a large organised group. Regardless of this, I have converted my Commando 2D to the following load out:


http://mwo.smurfy-ne...079e2770ab55a93


My reason for the Commando 2D is that its small, hard to spot and often ignored. It can be equipped with ECM, Tag (750m range), NARC (450m range with 24 rounds) and a SRM4 with 100 rounds for self defense. If you have them, use the NARC, SRM4, sensor range and seismic modules, as well as any other appropriate consumable such as artillery, air strikes or UAV's in available slots. Please understand that this is not a battle mech in any sense of the word and is not it's role.

Again, I stress that it'd probably work best if you were part of a large group, such as in a good community warfare team, where you have good communication with a friendly LRM missile boat. This mech can assist in ECM coverage for your team and help mask their approach routes for ambush. It has respectable speed, though not as fast as some other light mechs which may try to hunt you down. Would be wise to stay close and work with the team, but drop back a touch when your group is in direct combat. Is probably best to do your marking when the enemy mechs are otherwise engaged with bigger targets. Finally, it weighs only 25 tonnes, which frees up drop weight for the remaining three mechs in CW. I'd be interested to hear how it goes in a larger unit environment.

Hope this helps and is probably a lot different from most other choices out there. Is always fun to see how other mechs function in the role of "forward observer".


Regards,

Draughluin

[mailin]

I have to write the dissenting opinion here. The Raven 3L with 2 ERLLs is NOT a spotter, but a sniper. Also, with the duration of the lasers, it's not even a very good sniper. The spotter that I use is a 3L with 2 mlas, 2 streaks and a TAG. With the ECM, it is easy to get behind the enemy. Then TAG them. This part is really important, DO NOT FIRE YOUR WEAPONS AT THEM. Let your friendly lrms do their work.

If you get detected, run away. If you need to engage, you can with your weapons, which are MUCH better for short range dirty work than ER LLs.

[YCSLiesmith]

mailin, on 14 March 2015 - 04:56 AM, said:

I have to write the dissenting opinion here. The Raven 3L with 2 ERLLs is NOT a spotter, but a sniper. Also, with the duration of the lasers, it's not even a very good sniper. The spotter that I use is a 3L with 2 mlas, 2 streaks and a TAG. With the ECM, it is easy to get behind the enemy. Then TAG them. This part is really important, DO NOT FIRE YOUR WEAPONS AT THEM. Let your friendly lrms do their work.

If you get detected, run away. If you need to engage, you can with your weapons, which are MUCH better for short range dirty work than ER LLs.

IS Streak missiles (in fact all IS missiles) are hot garbage. they are dodgable, ammo dependent, have poor range, streaks and lrms are defeated by ECM, and they don't do targeted damage but instead spray everywhere. Please don't advise new players to use them. It's cruel.

[YCSLiesmith]

Draughluin, on 13 March 2015 - 11:37 PM, said:

G'day,


I saw your post and suspect that some of the initial replies missed the point of what a "forward observer" is all about. I've always thought of this as not being in a direct combat role, but one where you try to remain unobtrusive, unobserved and get about your work of marking or painting targets for artillery. In our case, some of the bigger and more dangerous mechs on the battlefield. As some posters have remarked, there is generally not a distinct role for this, though I'd suspect that in an organised team event, like community warfare, such a design might be considered valuable.

Not really. LRMs are trash for the reasons i mentioned, and no one in CW uses them. Really there isn't a great place for spotters in this game, but if you DO want to be a scout, be a scout sniper. If you're getting in close to multiple enemies or using tag you are exposed and will soon die. if you're poptarting over a hill that only you can reach and you've got ECM up and are prepared to book it as soon as they start returning fire, you'll be in a position to help your team and do damage both.

[Lightning0861]

Thanks for all the replies this has been great! I have not responded cause my limit was up! Its looking like from what the vets say that direct "spotter role" isn't really useful in MWO and that's ok. I guess I just want to play something like it but still be damn useful to my team. Looks like the Sniping duties of a light would be right up my alley. I can still perform functional secondary roles of spotting and scouting plus being able to punch a whole in the bad guys correct? If that is the case I am in!

Secondly, if there are groups on the server that would be willing to work with me a bit to teach me some piloting techniques and what I should be spending C Bills on/ what works in combat it would be great as I would eventually like to be a contributing member of a team that participates in the warfare/limited pvp campaign. I know the grind is big so spending bad money somewhere at first could be bad....

Regards,

Lightning

[Neutron IX]

You may then, enjoy the NARC/ECM role best perhaps? Which I think the Raven-3L is best suited for.
My own version of that (going off of memory here at the moment, so this is as close as I could recall off the top of my head) looks something like this - RVN-3L(C)

*Edited to add that, thinking about it, and I may have actually placed the NARC ammo in the Left Arm with the launcher itself. I will sometimes do this because I often find you are more likely to lose the arm, and then find yourself stuck with unusable ammo just waiting to explode, than you are to have the ammo in the arm hit and crit.

But opinions on this practice may vary, so I encourage you to experiment with what you feel works best.

Edited by Rip Snorgan, 14 March 2015 - 10:59 AM.

[mailin]

For those who argue that streaks and lrms are useless due to ECM, notice that I put streaks and a tag on an ECM mech. Tag makes mechs, even those under an ECM bubble lockable, and ECM now has the ability to counter ECM. Novel, huh.

Also, this is a light that I'm talking about. Weight is at a premium and streaks provide the best chance to hit the enemy while dodging. Combine streaks with 360 target retention, tag and artemis and locks are nearly immediate.

Furthermore, the OP wasn't talking about CW, but dropping with pugs.

Edited by mailin, 14 March 2015 - 07:11 PM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"LRMs are trash for the reasons i mentioned, and no one in CW uses them."

I see a lot of LRMs in the novice tier. Veterans use them less because 1) their enemies can afford radar dep and 2) their enemies have learned the many ways they can be thwarted. So I don't think its a bad idea for the OP to consider spotting for LRM boats now, as it will translate into other needed skills once he's a veteran pilot.

[YCSLiesmith]

Fenrisulvyn, on 14 March 2015 - 01:40 PM, said:

"LRMs are trash for the reasons i mentioned, and no one in CW uses them."

I see a lot of LRMs in the novice tier. Veterans use them less because 1) their enemies can afford radar dep and 2) their enemies have learned the many ways they can be thwarted. So I don't think its a bad idea for the OP to consider spotting for LRM boats now, as it will translate into other needed skills once he's a veteran pilot.

I think that building bad habits early because they work for now is a good way to gimp your ability to get skillful later in teh game. LRMs and LRM spotting both have a low skill ceiling and most of the skills you gain from doing them well are actually detrimental to your ability to grow as a useful mech pilot with decent weapons. Start as you intend to continue, imo.