121 replies to this topic

[Armorine]

You in the air and just launched a 200 pound ingot at 12% speed of light(or whatever the books says I can remember) you should be in serious danger of botching the landing and breaking something. Seriously in the lore using jjs took some insane skill. Most pilots didn't think about dropping the hammer in flight. There are plenty of instances of them letting rounds loose and plenty of wild misses.

[stjobe]

Armorine, on 14 March 2015 - 02:33 PM, said:

12% speed of light

I know you were just grabbing a number that meant "really, really fast", but just for the record 12% of the speed of light is about 130 million kph (80 million mph)

[RedDevil]

Armorine, on 14 March 2015 - 02:33 PM, said:

You in the air and just launched a 200 pound ingot at 12% speed of light(or whatever the books says I can remember) you should be in serious danger of botching the landing and breaking something. Seriously in the lore using jjs took some insane skill. Most pilots didn't think about dropping the hammer in flight. There are plenty of instances of them letting rounds loose and plenty of wild misses.

And on table top, jumping incurred the single largest penalty on your to-hit roll, but jumping allowed you to clear canyons, buildings and forest tops. Of course, not every mech could mount JJ's like the crazy IS mechs in this game can. They were integrated to the skeleton of specific models during construction.

Edited by reddevil, 14 March 2015 - 02:43 PM.

[Satan n stuff]

reddevil, on 14 March 2015 - 02:43 PM, said:

And on table top, jumping incurred the single largest penalty on your to-hit roll, but jumping allowed you to clear canyons, buildings and forest tops. Of course, not every mech could mount JJ's like the crazy IS mechs in this game can. They were integrated to the skeleton of specific models during construction.

The single largest penalty sure, but it's still not as bad as shooting while running full speed at max range and that we can do just fine in this game. With no additional penalties you'd still usually have a hit chance of 20-50% while jumping, while the latter usually brings it down to 0-20%.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 14 March 2015 - 02:50 PM.

[Armorine]

stjobe, on 14 March 2015 - 02:43 PM, said:

I know you were just grabbing a number that meant "really, really fast", but just for the record 12% of the speed of light is about 130 million kph (80 million mph)

Haha damn you got me. I can't for the life of me remember what the books said hahaha

[stjobe]

Satan n stuff, on 14 March 2015 - 02:49 PM, said:

The single largest penalty sure, but it's still nowhere near as bad as shooting while running full speed at max range and that we can do just fine in this game. With no additional penalties you'd still usually have a hit chance of 20-50% while jumping, while the latter usually brings it down to 0-20%.

The movement penalty on the to-hit roll is +2 for running, and it's +3 for jumping; all other things being equal, firing after a jump is +1 harder than after running. Always. Because "running" and "jumping" are the same type of modifier.

[Rossario x Vampire]

kapusta11, on 14 March 2015 - 11:51 AM, said:

Put a Highlander there istead of space shuttle

[Armorine]

Rossario x Vampire, on 14 March 2015 - 03:03 PM, said:

Put a Highlander there istead of space shuttle

Don't say that!! I just bought heavy metal!!!!!.... It'll prolly be grounded not gonna lie

[Satan n stuff]

stjobe, on 14 March 2015 - 02:57 PM, said:

The movement penalty on the to-hit roll is +2 for running, and it's +3 for jumping; all other things being equal, firing after a jump is +1 harder than after running. Always. Because "running" and "jumping" are the same type of modifier.

You might want to read that post a little better, I specifically said "shooting while running at max range". That's two modifiers, and two very common ones at that.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 14 March 2015 - 03:05 PM.

[Rossario x Vampire]

Armorine, on 14 March 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:

Don't say that!! I just bought heavy metal!!!!!....

...ahaha

[Armorine]

Rossario x Vampire, on 14 March 2015 - 03:09 PM, said:

...ahaha

lawn darts fly farther then assaults. They're also just as heavy

[stjobe]

Satan n stuff, on 14 March 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:

I specifically said "shooting while running at max range". That's two modifiers, and two very common ones at that.

Yes, but only one modifier should change if you're doing comparisons. Of course shooting while jumping at point-blank range is easier than shooting while running at max range - one has the very lowest range modifier, and the other the largest possible.

What I'm saying is that shooting while jumping at max range is one harder than shooting while running at max range.

It's always harder to hit stuff while jumping compared to while running - if every other factor is equal. Same target, same range, same terrain? Shooting while jumping is one harder than shooting while running.

[Rossario x Vampire]

Armorine, on 14 March 2015 - 03:10 PM, said:

lawn darts fly farther then assaults. They're also just as heavy

Just wait till PGI implement Collision Damage... than you can drop your 90 tons heavy brick on beloved lights.

[Satan n stuff]

stjobe, on 14 March 2015 - 03:15 PM, said:

Yes, but only one modifier should change if you're doing comparisons. Of course shooting while jumping at point-blank range is easier than shooting while running at max range - one has the very lowest range modifier, and the other the largest possible.

What I'm saying is that shooting while jumping at max range is one harder than shooting while running at max range.

It's always harder to hit stuff while jumping compared to while running - if every other factor is equal. Same target, same range, same terrain? Shooting while jumping is one harder than shooting while running.

The reason I'm making that specific comparison is because one is easy in this game and one isn't even possible for about half the mechs that should be able to do it. Guess which one is which.

[Armorine]

Oh god I can't wait!!!! "Where'd the sun go?!?......OH SH" CRUNCH.

[GeneralArmchair]

Here's how I think jumping should be handled.

1: High mobility jump jets. Think MWLL. Superb for traversing terrain but jumping too highly will leave you floating in the air and vulnerable to getting slapped with a ton of return fire.

2: The cockpit and reticle remain steady to prevent any motion sickness complaints (hold off on those replies. Wait for bullet #3).

3: When jumping, weapon convergence goes haywire. This will make sniping at max range nearly impossible. At closer ranges you should be able to hit most mech-sized targets, but you won't be able to concentrate 100% of your firepower upon a single section.



I think those three traits combined would be ideal. People who want to use their jump jets for maneuvering will be able to do so. Weapons can be used while airborne to take attacks of opportunity, but accuracy will be diminished to the point where deliberately poptarting as your primary form of combat is not viable.

[Satan n stuff]

Armorine, on 14 March 2015 - 03:19 PM, said:

Oh god I can't wait!!!! "Where'd the sun go?!?......OH SH" CRUNCH.

If I could do a proper Highlander burial, I'd do it every chance I got. Then I'd follow up by kicking or punching the mech next to my target or picking up a tree or limb and beating the crap out of it with that.

DFA, charging, kicking and punching, melee weapons, we need this stuff PGI! We need it now!

Edit: Almost forgot about the lore-famous Spider jumpkick, think about it, karate spiders everywhere.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 14 March 2015 - 03:26 PM.

[990Dreams]

Bullcrap.

Source: My Mist Lynx.

Also, a 90t Mech shouldn't be flying that high anyways.

Edited by DavidHurricane, 14 March 2015 - 03:28 PM.

[stjobe]

Satan n stuff, on 14 March 2015 - 03:18 PM, said:

The reason I'm making that specific comparison is because one is easy in this game and one isn't even possible for about half the mechs that should be able to do it. Guess which one is which.

I must be missing something here.

Is your beef with TT rules or MWO mechanics or the combination of both?

Because in TT firing after jumping was always harder than firing after running (all other things equal), and in MWO it's exactly as easy, provided you wait until you've let go of the jump jet button (so the reticule shake stops).

What part "isn't even possible" in MWO?

Is it the jumping part? If so, we're in total agreement, I'm firmly in the camp that wants jump jets fixed.

I have argued elsewhere that jump jets should KICK you up and away, 6 meters high and 30 meters far, when you tap the button. Hold the button and you go higher/further (provided you have more than one jump jet). That behaviour in and of itself might be enough to make pop-tarting so difficult it ceases to be a problem (without actively disallowing it).

If pop-tarting is still a problem after that, add some reticule shake while airborne.

But make our jump jets JUMP.

[Xetelian]

GeneralArmchair, on 14 March 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

Here's how I think jumping should be handled.

1: High mobility jump jets. Think MWLL. Superb for traversing terrain but jumping too highly will leave you floating in the air and vulnerable to getting slapped with a ton of return fire.

2: The cockpit and reticle remain steady to prevent any motion sickness complaints (hold off on those replies. Wait for bullet #3).

3: When jumping, weapon convergence goes haywire. This will make sniping at max range nearly impossible. At closer ranges you should be able to hit most mech-sized targets, but you won't be able to concentrate 100% of your firepower upon a single section.



I think those three traits combined would be ideal. People who want to use their jump jets for maneuvering will be able to do so. Weapons can be used while airborne to take attacks of opportunity, but accuracy will be diminished to the point where deliberately poptarting as your primary form of combat is not viable.

Poptarts are why we can't have nice things.