121 replies to this topic

[Hit the Deck]

This is a really good implementation in theory:

https://www.youtube....3hBsQY#t=14m40s

With pressing spacebar functions as filling your "jump charge meter" and when you release it the mech lunges forward like some of us have been suggesting. But the problem is what if you just want to jump up and down?

[Armorine]

Yuck charge anything makes me cringe horribly

[Hit the Deck]

Armorine, on 14 March 2015 - 07:15 PM, said:

Yuck charge anything makes me cringe horribly

Hey, we still need PGI to add charge mechanic to IS PPC so they can remove the minimum range because the "decrease to hit chance" have been "simulated" in game

[Xetelian]

Melon Lord, on 14 March 2015 - 06:27 PM, said:

I wasn't around for the pop tarting era, so I just took a look at a few videos to see what it was like. Honestly it looked pretty disgusting. There were assaults flying around with more mobility than my 5JJ Spider has now.

Poptarting is pretty gross.

Assaults had more mobility but didn't fly like a spider.

Spiders used to fly a lot more.

[Bloodweaver]

GeneralArmchair, on 14 March 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

0: Revert the gravity values in (at least most of) MWO's maps to be more similar to Earth's, instead of three times higher than that.

1: High mobility jump jets. Think MWLL. Superb for traversing terrain but jumping too highly will leave you floating in the air and vulnerable to getting slapped with a ton of return fire.

2: The cockpit and reticle remain steady to prevent any motion sickness complaints (hold off on those replies. Wait for bullet #3).

3: When jumping, weapon convergence goes haywire. This will make sniping at max range nearly impossible. At closer ranges you should be able to hit most mech-sized targets, but you won't be able to concentrate 100% of your firepower upon a single section.

...those [four] traits combined would be ideal.

There you go. Fix the gravity in MWO and see how the jets react first - THEN balance as needed.

Xetelian, on 14 March 2015 - 03:34 PM, said:

PGI taking the easy-way-out approach to balance is why we can't have nice things.

FTFY

[Bloodweaver]

Soy, on 14 March 2015 - 04:29 PM, said:

THIS IS A VIDEO GAME ITS NOT REAL LIFE

PS - guns IRL are for insecure *******

But... you're the one who started referring to real life logic.

And guns IRL are for people who want to kill something. Anything other than that is interpretation

[Bloodweaver]

Koniving, on 14 March 2015 - 06:56 PM, said:

That's 90 meters forward. The height would be about 12 meters (initial jump = 6, + 2 hexes at 3 each = 12 meters high point if going 90 meters forward, max height 18 meters if going 30 meters forward.)

Far as ability to aim, I'm indifferent. The main issue is instant convergence; poptarts were never an issue before the removal of delayed convergence (it was virtually impossible).

As an alternative to that, put a lot more forward movement into the jump. I can barely make 40 meters forward with a jump.

True, TT jump distance is referring to horizontal movement. But I'm a fan of "player chooses" approach to game-making - limiting player options only limits fun. And the goal of a game is not to be balanced, it is to be fun. The balancing mechanisms of a game are supposed to be supportive of that, not end-goals in themselves. This is probably the central tenet of PGI's design philosophy that has caused them to make so many arbitrary and/or terrible design decisions - the approach to balance as an end in and of itself. They fix something, and it stops being a problem, but only at the cost of the removal of a large portion of what made the game more fun before the fix was put in.

Huh. Never saw it so clearly before. PGI's biggest issue throughout MWO's development is, and always has been, the idea that balance takes priority over divertissement. I blame the rye whiskey for this sudden insight

Anyway, my initial point was going to be, that I have no issue with making jumpjets manipulable. Make that vectored thrust mobile! Let the pilot choose how vertical vs. how horizontal he wants it to be! Sure, balance it out somehow -the more the angle diverges from the horizontal, the higher the chance of leg damage/falling upon landing, would be an obvious starting point- but still make it an option!

And I bolded that one bit in your quote for everyone who thinks poptarting's dominance was actually caused by jumpjets. Even back then, jumpjets weren't great. One jumpjet was better than four. Jumpjets were never good in MWO. They just happen to be even worse now...

Edited by Bloodweaver, 14 March 2015 - 07:41 PM.

[Soy]

Bloodweaver, on 14 March 2015 - 07:30 PM, said:

But... you're the one who started referring to real life logic.

No I wasn't. I posted about Kris Kross making you jump on the first page. Then there's several pages of other people talking real life stuff.

[Bloodweaver]

Soy, I was referring to this quote in particular:

Soy, on 14 March 2015 - 03:34 PM, said:

I don't think you should be able to fire weapons from sitting still without everything going arbitrarily RNG.

See how monumentally ******** that sounds.

Because that is where that particular tangent of discussion commenced. It's a reference to real-life logic, and you went on to support your position by citing satellites, Napoleonic warfare, and whatnot. Were you being sarcastic when you made the "real life does not apply" statement? Or was it just an oversight that you said this in the middle of using real life examples to bolster your statements?

[Soy]

It's a reference to the game. Specifically. The game.

As in, what if you couldn't fire weapons accurately from stationary position.

[Bloodweaver]

Right, but if it's a reference to the game only, it doesn't sound ******** or genius. Or anything in between. It's all dependent on the mechanics of the game itself. It only becomes ******** with real-life concepts as a reference.

After all, that's exactly what happens in TT - weapons fire is always (somewhat) arbitrary. Maybe you find that immensely stupid. I have no idea what your feelings about it are. But obviously a lot of people don't feel that way, otherwise Battletech would never have become a commercial success.

Edited by Bloodweaver, 14 March 2015 - 08:03 PM.

[Soy]

It's just a rhetorical question that we can all quickly answer as "ugh that would be stupid and silly".

TT != FPS, we all know this ad naseum right.....

.....in fact, TT thumpers should consider clan balance in MWO to be about as large a dap to arbitrary **** as possible, all things considered. Or maybe hand of god mechanics in CW might be trump that, remains to be seen I guess.

Edited by Soy, 14 March 2015 - 08:06 PM.

[Ted Wayz]

Trust me, I know the lore. Still have my first edition TT books and pine for the days of a viable death from above. But I also know maths and can calculate the thrust to lift an 85 ton object a distance and, based on that thrust, how fast it will accelerate. You are lucky to be able to jump any reasonable height at all, especially on planets with high gravity.

But whine away and like all the posts that whine with you. It won't change anything.

Edited by Ted Wayz, 14 March 2015 - 10:48 PM.

[Spr1ggan]

Ted Wayz, on 14 March 2015 - 10:47 PM, said:

Trust me, I know the lore. Still have my first edition TT books and pine for the days of a viable death from above. But I also know maths and can calculate the thrust to lift an 85 ton object a distance and, based on that thrust, how fast it will accelerate. You are lucky to be able to jump any reasonable height at all, especially on planets with high gravity.

But whine away and like all the posts that whine with you. It won't change anything.

Surely though any point you make in regards to jjs is based on present day knowledge and technology. MechWarrior is set a good bit into the future. However, I treat Mechwarrior the same as StarWars. Sure It's Sci-Fi but there's a lot of fantasy as well. Compared to things like Trek.

Edited by Spr1ggan, 15 March 2015 - 01:46 AM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Koniving, on 14 March 2015 - 06:56 PM, said:

As an alternative to that, put a lot more forward movement into the jump. I can barely make 40 meters forward with a jump.

hmm idk, the jumpsequence as of now is kinda meh.
first 1/3 is hovermode above the ground, second 1/3 is jump upwards, third 1/3 is pushing forward.

i can deal with the hovermode, but mostly when i actually try to jump onto or over something i end up using the last 1/3 of my JJ's to press my mech against the thing it should actually jump onto.

i think there should be two buttons. one for forward movement and one for upward movement.

Edited by LOADED, 15 March 2015 - 03:41 AM.

[MavRCK]

Astrocanis, on 14 March 2015 - 07:46 AM, said:

I am CTO for a small tech company. They haven't "punted", or "dropped" it, they got busy with other show stoppers. I realize that software construction is as easy as getting in your car and driving to the liquor store for you, but for other less fortunates, it's a bit more work.

Add to that the fact that they actually have to make a living in a free to play world and you have something a bit more complex. Because the fact is that the playerbase is always crying about this or that and moaning that PGI never does anything fast enough. The game works pretty well, all whining aside.

The problem with this game is the playerbase.

Editting an XML file for balance issues isn't time intensive - the thought and consideration going into the balance issues is.

[Gattsus]

The jj in the highlander makes me cry.

[Armorine]

The highlanders state make us all cry

[GeneralArmchair]

Put the jump back in jump jets. This isn't Toy Story, so why can most JJ mechs only fall with style?

[RedDevil]

For those people saying that this is a game, you're totally right. All they need to do is make Jump Jets fun again.

Fun for the mech using them, and still fun for the mechs that have to face them. Right now, they are not fun for either party.