268 replies to this topic

[Redhook]

Burktross, on 15 March 2015 - 03:16 PM, said:

Height has its drawbacks. If your opponents are half decent shots, you'll attract more attention than your armor can handle.

You do have only one play style it seems.

Burktross, on 15 March 2015 - 03:21 PM, said:

I'd agree with you if you have Arrow IV missiles, but you wont be able to do much with that missile hardpoint otherwise. Even then, that makes it a one trick pony-- the Grasshopper would only be good with conveniently sized cover...
There's not much of that. You're only going to be a bigger target to boot, and be focus fired on top of that.

No!? The arms are also higher than the phract. And again I say Learn your terrain!

[Burktross]

Redhook, on 15 March 2015 - 03:21 PM, said:

You do have only one play style it seems.

No, your assumption is ludicrous. I have many for my different mechs (Don't you try and say I play my Locusts like I play my Hunchback). Your height wont help you if you have to expose your whole body to fire all of your weapons still.

Considering how apt you are for hillhugging, such a niche playstyle, then by your logic I can assume that's all you do then as well.

Shame your height wont be of any use when you still need to expose the whole body [Semantics disclaimer: Legs not included]. Have fun finding the cover to maximize your potential.

Edited by Burktross, 15 March 2015 - 03:27 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

Height has its drawbacks. If your opponents are half decent shots, you'll attract more attention than your armor can handle.

The thing with a tall mech is they tend to be harder to hit than a wider mech. Most people are decent at keeping the aim in the vertical plane but miss left or right in the horizontal plane. And if one or both mechs are moving they become even harder to hit.

[Burktross]

XX Sulla XX, on 15 March 2015 - 03:29 PM, said:

The thing with a tall mech is they tend to be harder to hit than a wider mech. Most people are decent at keeping the aim in the vertical plane but miss left or right in the horizontal plane. And if one or both mechs are moving they become even harder to hit.

I understand, but it's a two edged sword-- you'll be relying on your opponent's incompetence, and to compound that, you'll attract more attention as well, decreasing the likelyhood of you actually dodging shots because of the sheer volume of fire you'll receive.

[Redhook]

Redhook, on 15 March 2015 - 03:23 PM, said:

You do have only one play style it seems.


No!? The arms are also higher than the phract. And again I say Learn your terrain!

Its not shipping containers that I'm talking about. It's the inclines freind. There are thousands of them on every map! While only exposing the upper torso . How is that not clear?

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

I understand, but it's a two edged sword-- you'll be relying on your opponent's incompetence, and to compound that, you'll attract more attention as well, decreasing the likelyhood of you actually dodging shots because of the sheer volume of fire you'll receive.

Look all mechs are trade offs period. And being tall and thin is a nice way to trade off. I mean you could make it thin and short and very deep front to back but that would also have trade offs.

Being tall and thin means its hard to hit from all angles. And if the arms works good as shields and it has good hit boxes to go along with jump jets and a big engine and all the hard points it very well could be a top mech.

Edited by XX Sulla XX, 15 March 2015 - 03:34 PM.

[Redhook]

Burktross, on 15 March 2015 - 03:26 PM, said:

No, your assumption is ludicrous. I have many for my different mechs (Don't you try and say I play my Locusts like I play my Hunchback). Your height wont help you if you have to expose your whole body to fire all of your weapons still.

Considering how apt you are for hillhugging, such a niche playstyle, then by your logic I can assume that's all you do then as well.

Shame your height wont be of any use when you still need to expose the whole body [Semantics disclaimer: Legs not included]. Have fun finding the cover to maximize your potential.

I own 165 mechs homie. All different playstyles.

[Burktross]

Redhook, on 15 March 2015 - 03:31 PM, said:

Its not shipping containers that I'm talking about. It's the inclines freind. There are thousands of them on every map! While only exposing the upper torso . How is that not clear?

Ah, my mistake. Still, height is irrelevant! Anyone can travel hills to where they can shoot! It's all about firing area.
Your advantage is still dismal.

3% better firing profile.
For all that extra height.

Edit: I've made a mistake, correcting soon.

Edited by Burktross, 15 March 2015 - 03:42 PM.

[Redhook]

Redhook, on 15 March 2015 - 03:31 PM, said:

Its not shipping containers that I'm talking about. It's the inclines freind. There are thousands of them on every map! While only exposing the upper torso . How is that not clear?

Firing up an incline , firing down an incline are also better with taller mechs. Ever try firing downwards and hitting terain? You need to stop whining and let the mecvh come out first....then complain!

Burktross, on 15 March 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

Ah, my mistake. Still, height is irrelevant! Anyone can travel hills to where they can shoot! It's all about firing area.
Your advantage is still dismal.

3% better firing profile.
For all that extra height.

Edit: I've made a mistake, correcting soon.

And again what if me firing first is all thats needed to take you out. I win. Seconds are all that is needed at times for the win. Its still an advantage

[Troutmonkey]

Burktross, on 15 March 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

Ah, my mistake. Still, height is irrelevant! Anyone can travel hills to where they can shoot! It's all about firing area.
Your advantage is still dismal.

3% better firing profile.
For all that extra height.

Edit: I've made a mistake, correcting soon.

I was about to say this, sure the weapon points are "higher", but you still have to expose just as much of the mech to shoot. Then, when you're not in cover there's simply a lot more mech to shoot at.

As for the height, being as tall as an Atlas will attract a LOT of fire because "Look at the huge mech, lets shoot that first!". And with the legs being as long as they are I expect a lot of leggings will occur. Now I don't mind it being a bit tall, but there's a difference between being tall and being monstrously huge. Sure it's "slim", but I don't think it will save it that much. It's certainly not DOA, but it could definitely stand to be about half a head shorter

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

Ah, my mistake. Still, height is irrelevant! Anyone can travel hills to where they can shoot! It's all about firing area.
Your advantage is still dismal.

Compare the surface area not how wide it is. Notice the GH has a wide gap between arms and torso for example. Fire can and does go right through gaps like that. A It is another arbitrary comparison.

Also hill humping is not the only thing you ever do.

Edited by XX Sulla XX, 15 March 2015 - 03:54 PM.

[Burktross]

XX Sulla XX, on 15 March 2015 - 03:52 PM, said:

Compare the surface area not how wide it is. Notice the GH has a wide gap between arms and torso for example. Fire can and does go right through gaps like that. Also your box did not even go up to the head of the Cataphract. It is another arbitrary comparison.

The head was an oversight, as I said.

Redhook, on 15 March 2015 - 03:44 PM, said:

Firing up an incline , firing down an incline are also better with taller mechs. Ever try firing downwards and hitting terain? You need to stop whining and let the mecvh come out first....then complain!

If you can acclaim good things, I can acclaim bad things.
Here is my correction.

You have an 18% advantage during cover wars, which I'll give you. But cover is not omnipresent, you'll have to brawl sometime. And when you do, that 10% greater height will get you focus fired disproportionately for your size, which your armor will not be able to handle appropriately.

I'll admit, still inaccurate-- I'll take into account empty space in a later image.

[Redhook]

Troutmonkey, on 15 March 2015 - 03:50 PM, said:

I was about to say this, sure the weapon points are "higher", but you still have to expose just as much of the mech to shoot. Then, when you're not in cover there's simply a lot more mech to shoot at.

As for the height, being as tall as an Atlas will attract a LOT of fire because "Look at the huge mech, lets shoot that first!". And with the legs being as long as they are I expect a lot of leggings will occur. Now I don't mind it being a bit tall, but there's a difference between being tall and being monstrously huge. Sure it's "slim", but I don't think it will save it that much. It's certainly not DOA, but it could definitely stand to be about half a head shorter

Not true. looking down on someone from a platform means less travel time in reverse to hide from enemy fire than a shorter mech who has to move much more forward for the same shot. Why is this still not clear?

[Burktross]

Redhook, on 15 March 2015 - 03:55 PM, said:

Not true. looking down on someone from a platform means less travel time in reverse to hide from enemy fire than a shorter mech who has to move much more forward for the same shot. Why is this still not clear?

Because that's not the only circumstance in which you'll be fighting. It's acknowledged that for every mech, and for combat in general, firing from above is an advantage.

Also, you don't have pretty pictures.

Back to the topic, you'll more commonly be fighting in cover which amounts to the same elevation, so that's how more people see it at first.

But since you have a greater advantage fighting down, you'll have an even worse time fighting upwards.
Also, you best pray that the torso up and down angle is good.

Edited by Burktross, 15 March 2015 - 04:01 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

You should be able to color in silhouette in photoshop on its own layer. Then from that figure out total front surface area. Then when we know what the hit boxes are you can also do surface area of hit boxes.

It looks to me like the GH is going to have a lot better hit boxes etc than the Catephract also.

Also the higher arms help protect the torso more than on the cataphract. If they are very wide front to back at the shoulder they will make nice shields.

Edited by XX Sulla XX, 15 March 2015 - 04:02 PM.

[Gorgo7]

I see a frontal surface area that is very similar on both mechs.
However the torso and arms on the Grasshopper seem to have a smaller frontal surface area.
I think it will fare quite well.

[Burktross]

Troutmonkey, on 15 March 2015 - 03:50 PM, said:

As for the height, being as tall as an Atlas will attract a LOT of fire because "Look at the huge mech, lets shoot that first!". And with the legs being as long as they are I expect a lot of leggings will occur. Now I don't mind it being a bit tall, but there's a difference between being tall and being monstrously huge. Sure it's "slim", but I don't think it will save it that much. It's certainly not DOA, but it could definitely stand to be about half a head shorter

Yes, I keep saying this.
Edited away rudeness.

Edited by Burktross, 15 March 2015 - 04:04 PM.

[Redhook]

Burktross, on 15 March 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

The head was an oversight, as I said.

If you can acclaim good things, I can acclaim bad things.
Here is my correction.

You have an 18% advantage during cover wars, which I'll give you. But cover is not omnipresent, you'll have to brawl sometime. And when you do, that 10% greater height will get you focus fired disproportionately for your size, which your armor will not be able to handle appropriately.

I'll admit, still inaccurate-- I'll take into account empty space in a later image.

Like I said earlier....Lets wait till it comes out and then debate. I don't disgree with everything you've stated. Just that I've learned to exploit different attributes to every chassis. and avoid exposing there weaknesses. Like I dont use my gargoyle to brawl if I can avoid it .

[Burktross]

XX Sulla XX, on 15 March 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

You should be able to color in silhouette in photoshop on its own layer. Then from that figure out total front surface area. Then when we know what the hit boxes are you can also do surface area of hit boxes.

It looks to me like the GH is going to have a lot better hit boxes etc than the Catephract also.

Also the higher arms help protect the torso more than on the cataphract. If they are very wide front to back at the shoulder they will make nice shields.

I don't use photoshop. I'm a poor peasant.

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 March 2015 - 12:53 PM, said:

yawn. Whatever.

***** a soft spot, eh?

Funnily enough, I disagree with a lot of people. Name call very seldom. If you are feeling pricked by the term metawhore, perhaps that's a you problem.

And no, I understand the term "meta" as it has been misapplied largely among gamers for some time, just fine.

Thank you for once again ignoring all of my actual points. You're quite good at evading the meat of posts.


You spend how long making how many threads (at least 4 direct/indirect threads on it by my count) to get your pet Summoner buffed?


Including everything from fairly LARGE quirks, and unlocking Endo and sending Russ frequent tweets on it.



So it's OK when your pet mech doesn't turn out how you wanted it to, to lobby for buffs particularly quirk buffs for your pet mech, but when someone else suggests that quirks are important for a mech they have high hopes for then suddenly it's the "Self fulfilling metawhore prophecy"?


This is even after you forgot the GRH even had quirks assigned to it because they were so uninteresting?





Could you possibly be any more hypocritical?

Edited by Ultimatum X, 15 March 2015 - 04:05 PM.