91 replies to this topic

[Jaeger Gonzo]

High =/= mass
The only thing that matter is right scale. The only parameters are density and volumn. We know that is not a case with MWO mechs.
About grasshop. By our exp is proved that better to be taller then fatter in this game.

[DaZur]

Not every intelligentsia denounced mech has ultimately been proven worthless. In the same breath, a few of the intelligentsia vetted mechs have ultimately been exposed as paper tigers...

The point being while surely a factor to be weighted in the viability of a mech, size and proportioning is but one of a number of factors that predicate a mech viability.

I've personally grown weary of the snap judgments and intelligentsia opinion driven metas... It's completely over-blown IMHO.

As my Pop always said... "The proof is in the pudding".

I take all the compare / contrast arguments with a grain of salt after all the months playing... Mech are vetted on the battlefield not in the forums.

That is unless you take the intelligentsia's myopic word as gospel...

Edited by DaZur, 15 March 2015 - 09:36 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

DaZur, on 15 March 2015 - 09:01 PM, said:

Not every intelligentsia denounced mech has ultimately been proven worthless. In the same breath, a few of the intelligentsia vetted mechs have ultimately been exposed as paper tigers...

The point being while surely a factor to be weighted in the viability of a mech, size and proportioning is but one of a number of factors that predicate a mech viability.

I've personally grown weary of the snap judgments and intelligentsia opinion driven metas... It's completely over-blown IMHO.

As my Pop always said... "The proof is in the pudding".

I take all the compare / contrast arguments with a grain of salt after all there months playing... Mech are vetted on the battlefield not in the forums.

That is unless you take the intelligentsia's myopic word as gospel...

hate to correct your Pop, since mine said it wrong too...but the saying is "the proof of the pudding is in the eating".

Wouldn't want to be counted with the pseudo-intelligentsia, would ya?

Ozealot, on 15 March 2015 - 09:04 PM, said:

Bish please. What made you that salty? A little bit more White while Knighting would fit your image much better. And you know, it's all about the image, isn't it Bish?


Grasshopper will be performing very well imho. It will just have to watch it's legs, being jump capable and tall anyway. The additional torso armor buff might perhaps make them legs a priority target. I expect that thing being a good energy platform for medium to long ranges where you can cover your legs, with some lesser brawling capabilities with it's srm potential. Looks vile, I really like it. Insects are hard to kill, so I have expectations though. To the general uproar about it's height - the Gargoyle is much more massive, only 10 tons heavier and has the same height but a rather limiting movement archetype. GHopper will not be that fast I guess, but JJs will make up for it. Not using an xl might be interesting in this one.

What made me salty was Ulti's decision to fill the void of arrogant master of all things MWO that Roland claimed. And his decision to make personal attacks on me. I'm tired of his patronizing bullcrap.

Deal with it, or don't. Really doesn't matter to me.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 15 March 2015 - 09:07 PM.

[El Bandito]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 15 March 2015 - 08:57 PM, said:

High =/= mass
The only thing that matter is right scale. The only parameters are density and volumn. We know that is not a case with MWO mechs.
About grasshop. By our exp is proved that better to be taller then fatter in this game.

Again, here is the right scale, which PGI had discarded. Grasshopper not only was suppose to be slim, but noticeably shorter than the Assaults, which is not the case in MWO--where the GHR is as tall as the Banshee.

Whether the GHR is gonna be good or not is different from the core issue of scaling errors PGI keep making. That's where my beef is. And that's what people should bring up in the next town hall meeting or in Reddit.

Edited by El Bandito, 15 March 2015 - 09:10 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

just as a note to lil Ozzy, too? I blocked you long ago..because I really couldn't care less what you think. But keep posting away.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 15 March 2015 - 09:10 PM.

[Scurry]

Ultimatum X, on 15 March 2015 - 08:37 PM, said:

Has any mech's size ever been adjusted?

IIRC, the Trebuchet got a size tweak a while back. I think it was just the width, though.

[Kjudoon]

With that much leg, we have a true borne poptarter. She won't be a good brawler with two 'shoot here' signs on her thighs. Could be a good flanker too with that speed.

Hop and pop baby.

[Bishop Steiner]

Scurry, on 15 March 2015 - 09:13 PM, said:

IIRC, the Trebuchet got a size tweak a while back. I think it was just the width, though.

Rumors persist that the CT of the Centurion was widened in CB. Veracity of this rumor, I cannot verify.

[DaZur]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 March 2015 - 09:07 PM, said:

hate to correct your Pop, since mine said it wrong too...but the saying is "the proof of the pudding is in the eating".

Wouldn't want to be counted with the pseudo-intelligentsia, would ya?

Pffft... He was a right solid Pole from the old country. He managed to get a lot of sayings wrong.

To be fair... the proof still lies within the pudding whether it's eaten or not. The act of eating simply confirms or refutes the implied quality.

[Lynx7725]

KraftySOT, on 15 March 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

The MAD right? Thought it was an issue with its head mounted AC with its crits in the RT. Which I think got more detailed rules around MaxTech (1999 or so).

And id say most people accept megamek is incredibly canon since it has such well labeled and such a large amount of option flags. You can play the era or company rules you always liked the most, while still having EVERYTHING EVER DONE in one place.

And theres a nifty "canon only" button to eliminate everything that isnt offically in a book somewhere.

And id love to see more of that kind of stuff in the game.

Well, as far back as I could remember the MAD always had its AC in the torso. It looks "head" mounted, yeah, but mechanically I've always remembered it as RT mounted. I can check my "falling apare" 3025 TRO, but I understand there's been some retconning in recent years by Catty Lab too.

Megamek is a very nice program, I agree. Still, canon or not, I'll take Catty Lab's word for it. Even PGI has to give face to Catty Lab in that regards, on certain key things.

While I would like to see more in-world items and events, I'd have to be honest.. if the Quickdraw snapped its ankle every other time it lands, it's going to be so badly broke, it's not funny. I don't see Quickdraws enough as it is (just shot one up last night I think), so having it go extinct is not exactly what I want. End of day, PGI has to pick and choose which to include and which to exclude, and strike a balance between game balance and world immersion.

Sigilum Sanctum, on 15 March 2015 - 08:55 PM, said:

A: Just because they are not bound by that does not mean they should have a free reign to continue such inconsistent practices.

Acutally, they can. Let's not kid ourselves. If we want to play in this world, we are consumers, and they are creating the content. To some extent we have no say at all. We can provide feedback on what we think works and don't work, but there are ways to do it that are positive and constructive, but from what I see on the forums, this is hardly the place to find it, and frankly, I can't blame PGI for not wading through the whole cesspool for the little gems that might be worthwhile.

And you know what? If the Hopper doesn't work out I don't use it. I don't buy 'Hopper chassis and stuff. How does PGI know whether a chassis is at what tier? They don't rely on our opinions initially, opinions being what they are. They rely on player numbers, usage patterns, performance indicators that we have no idea they are collecting, and then they seek opinions from players they know are more objective and stable. Screaming and yelling about a mech that hasn't even been released won't work. Not using it after it released works. Shooting it dead in every match after it released works.

Sigilum Sanctum, on 15 March 2015 - 08:55 PM, said:

B: Those projections are based off common sense and the "correct" way to do things is based on what is obvious for good and fair gameplay. Assault mechs are bigger and taller to fit more components into them to make them deadlier war machines. Why is a battlemech that is 30 tons lighter than a top end Assault mech going to be the same height and? No engineer (in a fictional universe or not) would dare do such a thing because it makes no bloody sense, his creation would be immediately rejected because it is grossly inefficient despite its Pros.

Actually, common sense is not common. You'd find a lot of weird stuff happening. Like, don't chase a squirrel. Like, don't walk out in the open to get shot up or LRM'ed to death. In real life, no Mechwarrior (in a fictional universe) would dare do such a thing.

[Stoned Prophet]

El Bandito, on 15 March 2015 - 07:10 PM, said:

The Phract has the option of only using the torsi energy mounts for minimal exposure though. Grasshopper needs to expose the whole torso for that.

Wait youre changing your argument... You said it was too tall, not that it had low mounted energy hardpoints. Sad.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Xetelian, on 15 March 2015 - 07:50 PM, said:

Way too tall and I'll probably focus fire them till I get used to it not being a freaking battlemaster.

Best post of thread.

/close thread

[STEF_]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 March 2015 - 07:41 PM, said:

If it can't peektart it's DoA?

The Comps have spoken.

I hope that someone say it's doa, so I can post some screenshots...as usual

However, bigger mechs are easier targets, and this even more if it doesn't have good high hardpoints.

I really was hoping IS was going to have a good heavy, because, let's face it, untill now IS heavies can perform only with strong quirks....

[Duke Nedo]

Not too worried about height as long as it's skinny... my Novas and Awesomes would happily trade proportions! More worrying that the hardpoints are a bit on the low side.

Edited by Duke Nedo, 15 March 2015 - 11:50 PM.

[Reitrix]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 March 2015 - 09:18 PM, said:

Rumors persist that the CT of the Centurion was widened in CB. Veracity of this rumor, I cannot verify.

The only size tweaking i can think of is when they made the hitbox of the Centys CT 10% larger, in should be in patch notes somewhere.
The Awesome also got hitbox size tweaks as well as the Cataphract and Jager Cockpits, but i can't recall a time when a 'Mechs phyical appearance got smaller. Though i would love for my Nova to not be as large as a King Crab, I'm not holding my breath on seeing a change there.

[Hit the Deck]

El Bandito, on 15 March 2015 - 08:25 PM, said:

Correct size comparison chart. Notice the height difference between the Grasshopper and the Banshee.
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What we have in MWO.
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Need I say more?

I guees this is partially Alex' fault for making the Banshee that fat. The modellers must follow Alex' drawings and PGI goes to the "volume and density route to scale the weights so we end up with that.

I know that Alex is part of PGI but... I just want to illustrate my point.

[EvilCow]

The torso does not look larger than the Cataphract torso, maybe a little smaller. The difference is all in legs, very long legs compared to any other mech but also rather thin.

I think it will not be that bad.

[Impyrium]

If the Grasshopper was resized height wise according to that chart, or at least in relation to MW:O's sizing of the Banshee, it would look like this:



While there's certainly a difference and it seems somewhat more natural, the size difference... isn't that big. I really think we'll have to see how it handles in game.

[Joseph Mallan]

Burktross, on 15 March 2015 - 06:50 PM, said:

A pleasure. Can't say I regret it. I like making pretty pictures.

As for the hardpoints, I think there's hope. A la the Enforcer.

Tuesday will decide.
---------------------------------------------------------------
...Wait... has anyone thought about how leggable the Grasshopper will be...?--

Sigh... I'll make a surface area thing for legs tomorrow...

its a Grasshopper!

Legs should be long to fit the name.

[STEF_]

Ozealot, on 16 March 2015 - 12:01 AM, said:

...or Clan pilots in them.

Clam pilots didn't ride IS heavies before quirks, I can assure you