Egomane, on 16 March 2015 - 05:30 AM, said:
How did you get to this number?
But let us humor it:
- 1 LRM-20 (IS, as a clan one shoots in waves and two AMS can neutralize it) weighs 10 tons. At least a half ton of ammo for the LRM, makes for a total of 10.5 tons, 7 critical slots and some heat.
- 7 AMS, each with half a ton of ammo, makes a total of 7 tons of equipment with 14 critical slots and no heat. With plenty of ammo left to counter several other LRM launchers.
A difference in favor of the AMS by 3.5 tons, a whole third of the launcher, with plenty of ammo to spare. In favor of the LRM launcher are the critical slots used, but this is quickly neutralized once you get into mechs with more then a single AMSor when you start to consider that the LRM mech has several tons of ammo. When you realize that your half ton of ammo on all your AMS system can neutralize up to 6 tons of LRM ammo of the single launcher, you will notice that the LRM start to get into a very bad position in tonnage and critical slots against your defense.
If you want immunity from LRM you either be able to counter them with your own skills at the use of movement, terrain and equipment (including that of your teammates), or be prepared to invest some tonnage and space into it. The LRM user had to invest heavily in tonnage and space as well.
VinJade, on 16 March 2015 - 05:12 AM, said:
actually it isn't fair. LRM users already have to put up with what I already stated above.
being a missile boat I get rocked by enemy LRMs as well and then there are other machines that can disrupt LRM locks and waste ammo such as the over powered AC 2s shaking.
and then there is the fact many mount mainly energy weapons which will never run out of ammunition while LRM & S/SRMs will.
you could have a thousand+ of rounds for LRMs but with the loss of target locks after being fired can cause the missiles to miss.
and hiding behind hills and other things such as buildings will protect you from LRMs.
however in the end just refer to what I stated in my last post why this would just more or less make Missiles useless and LRMs are already weak as hell.
DeRazer, on 16 March 2015 - 05:29 AM, said:
Many good points raised already, but from a pure immersion point of view it would be great to be able to do this.
I think you should permit all weapons to do it as they all have their issues anyway...
Ballistics or PPC - only going to hit one or two.. LBX might be fun though..
MGs - timing critical as range is so low.
Lasers - well, good luck holding those on target for even the full second necessary to take one out.
However, I think you would need to
a) Increased LRM speed - something that I think should be done anyway! But in this case "cruising speed" would need to be a lot higher.
Allow "flat" trajectories for Artemis launchers where you have the line of sight+ lock. Much harder to hit something coming straight at you. Also "dumb" firing of LRMs in a straight line with Artemis LRMs.
c) Slight buffs to damage AND splash damage/impulse radius (though splash damage can be very low). Missiles that get through should do damage/impulse even if they hit the floor nearby.
d) Activate the (planned I think)XP rewards for normal AMS to increase incentives to use them.
This might also serve to improve those horrible games where one team gets all the ECM and/or LRMs.
Twilight Fenrir, on 16 March 2015 - 06:26 AM, said:
This exact topic has been raised before... I think with identical pole options, too
Either way, it is an emphatic YES!
Just pure immersion, I want to be able to turn my machine gun boat skywards and trim off the missles coming for me. Obviously my gauss, AC, and PPC aren't going to be worth the attempt... But if I've got MGs, or lasers, it would be worth my time. Especially in a light mech.
People talk about LRMs as the 'noob' weapon, requiring no skill... But that really isn't true. It's only easy when there are skill less pilots to take advantage of. (or skilled ones who just get screwed by random luck.... Or LRM 100s
)
I really grew to appreciate their use over this last event, as the only 'special' heavy I have is my Founder's Catapult. It requires a different skill set to be sure, but it definitely still requires skill to be an effective missle mech.
So, I can appreciate that the boaters don't want yet more ways to defeat their attacks... But it really is something that needs to happen. I doubt it would make that much difference strategically, but it would make a world of difference for fun. To feel like a badass as flame blossoms in the air while you wail away impotently before getting smacked in the face
Go ahead and give a (small) buff to LRMs to compensate... Missle speed would be a great, and logical one. I don't think there are many things that could stay airborn at the speeds at which they travel in-game...
The missles should have a certain amount of HP when it comes to lasers...it should take more than an instant of contact with a small laser to take one out... But MGs and LBX should be able to do it on-contact...
For one I AM an LRM boat owner ( LRM 80 madcat, LRM 35 orion, LRM 60 cat) So its not like I'm an person that hates LRMs or for that matter even has a problem trying to dodge them at all, quite easy in my other two madcats that are set up for close in fighting (UAC20 + 5 ERML)/(3 ERML + 2RM6 + 2ERLL). I just think along the same lines with fenrir that this would make the immersion factor awesome!
Also as he pointed out it wouldn't honestly do much to the LRMs in the first place, if you look at the stats for AMS they have to make like 9 or something shots to do 2 damage to kill a missile, if you think about how hard it would be to hold a laser on the group thats moving DOWN on you or across the map at your team you would really only be able to hit 2-3.
You also wouldn't fire, say, a Gauss rifle at a missile cluster to kill ONE missile.....at least I hope you wouldn't......
Now lets look at what Egomane says about the effectiveness of AMS vs LRM20s from a tonnage standpoint, first off how many heavy's and assault's (who have plenty of tonnage for this to work mind you) go out and use 2 tons to equip an AMS system? What about two? The problem is in reality most of the time its lights who throw on an AMS and they are busy (or at least they should be) running around and getting positional information and picking off weak targets, not with the main battle group intercepting the CLOUDS of LRMs that we all know happen. Now think about this for a second too, my LRM 80 madcat can break through ANY AMS screen there is. Now what happens if there are two of these present? Three? Answer is the 3-5 AMS on the team that may work just dandy against LRM5 spam or a light with a LRM10 are now helpless against the swarm of 200+ missiles that mow their way though anyone dumb enough to be transfixed by their luminescent glory!
Now change this same situation where the team that has no ECM and only 3-5 AMS (realistic number of AMS you will most likely see anyway, and that's on the high side) engaging the same LRM heavy and potentially ECM equipped enemy team BUT give them the ability to fire on the incoming swarms. What you get is a glorious, cinematic like scene of mech desperately fring into the air to thin the miasma of death and destruction that is raining upon them! Just think how much better it would be not to feel totally helpless under a seemingly never ending barrage of 4 clan LRM20s being chain fired and to see some of the angry blue eyes swarming toward you blow up from your desperate laser and machine gun fire!
Not only would this be INSANELY fun but it would effectively give every mech present a chance to be a (somewhat less accurate and effective) AMS system if faced with a overwhelmingly high number of enemy LRM boats. Would be a very rewarding experience!
Now I know you might say, "So hang on, what do LRM lovers get out of this?" Well, a few things.......
First, when the enemy is busy shooting at your missiles that means that: 1. They are not shooting you, and 2. They are wasting heat reserve and potentially ammo while having a very minimal effect on your firepower.
Second, if the enemy team is trying to intercept your LRM swarm you get to feel like a demigod raining fire from the heavens watching the mere mortals blindly poke their pathetic lasers into the sky hoping to be spared from the onslaught! (I personally SOOOOO want to see people cowering in terror and firing at my LRM80 swarm while they inevitably die from dismemberment and massive torso damage!)
Also the final thing I would like for people to consider is the attack angle and corresponding range of LRM in regards to attempted interception. When fired at longer ranges (500+ meters) LRMs and IS varients even more so, tend to fly upward a fair distance then drop almost vertically onto the target. This makes interception at long range (the only situation where a human will have time to line up on the incoming missiles) very difficult.
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