16 replies to this topic

[Haviland Tuf]

Any word on when the "solid nothing" will be removed?

Like on Turmaline Desert where you can't shoot through some destroyed construction or River City, where my Jenner could perfectly fire through a gap at the "Cathedral" - if it wasn't solid.

And the innumerous cases where the shot is blocked by an invisible rock.

[Paigan]

My guess (from some limited experience how 3D modelling and hit detection etc. work) is that those aren't really glitches but rather simplifications for the game.
You can't model/represent/etc. everything in a game exactely in the game mechanics because that would require infinite processing power.
So you have to simplify, to "cheat" on a technical level.
E.g. we don't really hit the mech models. Mech models don't exist as far as shooting and hitting is concearned. Only simplified hit boxes.
Something similar is done with the terrain.

I'd rather suggest to develop an understanding for those simplifications instead of hoping for a "fix"

Edited by Paigan, 16 March 2015 - 05:06 AM.

[Haviland Tuf]

Well, a "solid" texture would be much better than pretending some non existant, nimble structure.

But hey, the game then looks bulky.

Wouldn't matter, its coded bulky anyways.

[ROSS-128]

I think an appropriate quote for this situation is, "Frustration is the difference between expectations and reality."

The visible model is our expectation, but the hitboxes are reality as far as the game is concerned.

I think in some cases, if possible, it might be a good idea to make the hitboxes slightly smaller than the visible model in situations where that would minimize the difference between the two.

Obviosly shooting through solid objects is every bit as much BS as invisible walls, but it's a matter of case-by-case minimizing the difference between model and hitbox.

[RussianWolf]

Where I have an issue is on HPG where, standing next to a column, I can't shoot past it, but the people I'm shooting at have no issue coring me from those same positions.

[Simbacca]

RussianWolf, on 16 March 2015 - 07:01 AM, said:

Where I have an issue is on HPG where, standing next to a column, I can't shoot past it, but the people I'm shooting at have no issue coring me from those same positions.

It is a square box representing a round column. Same goes with the CW maps - a rectangular box represents all the cables that are sticking out the Gauss Rifle.

It is done for computational efficiency - but yes I agree it is very frustrating.

[Mudhutwarrior]

I don't care about shooting through things as much as edges matching. Just clearing that would improve it a bunch.

[MoonUnitBeta]

A long long time ago, a company had told us once that collision maps would be tightened up to more closely represent what we see.
A long long time after that, we still have yet to get that.

It'd be really nice if my shots didn't keep getting blocked by the building that's apparently 2 extra meters wider than it looks like.

[Steve Pryde]

If I can see through something, I will shoot through it too. In all other mp games it's possible, why not in MWO?

[Lostdragon]

Steve Pryde, on 16 March 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

If I can see through something, I will shoot through it too. In all other mp games it's possible, why not in MWO?

Because Cryengine is hard?

[Aethon]

Lostdragon, on 16 March 2015 - 07:42 AM, said:

Because Cryengine is hard?

I really wish PGI had used an engine they were capable of working with, like Unreal or Quake. Their attempts to follow in MWLL's footsteps have gone rather poorly, IMHO.

[CocoaJin]

Paigan, on 16 March 2015 - 05:06 AM, said:

My guess (from some limited experience how 3D modelling and hit detection etc. work) is that those aren't really glitches but rather simplifications for the game.
You can't model/represent/etc. everything in a game exactely in the game mechanics because that would require infinite processing power.
So you have to simplify, to "cheat" on a technical level.
E.g. we don't really hit the mech models. Mech models don't exist as far as shooting and hitting is concearned. Only simplified hit boxes.
Something similar is done with the terrain.

I'd rather suggest to develop an understanding for those simplifications instead of hoping for a "fix"

Perhaps they can make the simplified hit-boxes smaller than the 3D model. Though that would mean objects would provide less cover than one might expect.

[RussianWolf]

Simbacca, on 16 March 2015 - 07:10 AM, said:

It is a square box representing a round column. Same goes with the CW maps - a rectangular box represents all the cables that are sticking out the Gauss Rifle.

It is done for computational efficiency - but yes I agree it is very frustrating.

That doesn't explain it to me.

Column on my left. My CT and RA with weapon are sticking out. I see enemy, we both fire. My shot impacts the air beside the column. Their shot hits my CT. If my Right arm mounted weapon can't hit them, they shouldn't be able to hit my CT which would be FURTHER behind the invisible column.

[ROSS-128]

RussianWolf, on 16 March 2015 - 09:28 AM, said:

That doesn't explain it to me.

Column on my left. My CT and RA with weapon are sticking out. I see enemy, we both fire. My shot impacts the air beside the column. Their shot hits my CT. If my Right arm mounted weapon can't hit them, they shouldn't be able to hit my CT which would be FURTHER behind the invisible column.

Yeah, there are odd moments sometimes where it almost feels like me and my enemies aren't playing on the same map. I don't know if there's a disconnect between some mechs' First Person and Third Person models or what.

Reminds me of a persistent problem my T29 has in World of Tanks. Some games it feels like the first person camera is mounted underneath the hull, so when I can just barely see the top of my enemy's turret, they can hit my tracks. O_o

[DivineEvil]

RussianWolf, on 16 March 2015 - 09:28 AM, said:

That doesn't explain it to me.

Column on my left. My CT and RA with weapon are sticking out. I see enemy, we both fire. My shot impacts the air beside the column. Their shot hits my CT. If my Right arm mounted weapon can't hit them, they shouldn't be able to hit my CT which would be FURTHER behind the invisible column.

That depends on what you and your target is converged (aimed) at. If you would aim at that column's bounding box then you'd hit the column. If your enemy has converged on your mech, he will hit it. Pay attention to the distance mark on your reticle to tell what you're really aiming at. I'd also recommend to use lasers ocassionaly to check how large bounding boxes are and where you can actually shoot trough. It can be easily abused to get an advantage over the clueless enemy.

Edited by DivineEvil, 16 March 2015 - 10:09 AM.

[RussianWolf]

DivineEvil, on 16 March 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

That depends on what you and your target is converged (aimed) at. If you would aim at that column's bounding box then you'd hit the column. If your enemy has converged on your mech, he will hit it. Pay attention to the distance mark on your reticle to tell what you're really aiming at. I'd also recommend to use lasers ocassionaly to check how large bounding boxes are and where you can actually shoot trough. It can be easily abused to get an advantage over the clueless enemy.

So when my right arm mounted weapon is hitting the bounding box for a column on my left, how is the enemy converging on my CT and not the bounding box that I'm hitting. Shouldn't be possible. Either the bounding box is there or it isn't, can't be both.

[Smith Gibson]

RussianWolf, on 16 March 2015 - 12:04 PM, said:

So when my right arm mounted weapon is hitting the bounding box for a column on my left, how is the enemy converging on my CT and not the bounding box that I'm hitting. Shouldn't be possible. Either the bounding box is there or it isn't, can't be both.

Your crosshairs were probably one single pixel or so on the "invisible wall" side of of the column. So the game thinks you want to aim all your weapons at a target only 1.25 meters in front of you, and not the 100+ meters you were really aiming at. You then end up with all of your weapons firing in a sharp inward angle. Technically some of your center torso was visible to the enemy so he was able to hit you there. You could have shot around the "invisible wall" portion of the pillar by shooting a little further out from it. Of course you'd have traded missing by hitting the invisible wall for missing because you were shooting off to the side of your target. In either case it all come down to the 3D model we see doesn't match the 3D model the game uses for hit registration.