55 replies to this topic

[Wild Hamster]

So I was in Tourmaline in an Ember

An Orion with an orange cored CT powered down in front of me. Together with a Huginn, we poured 8 mgs worth of lead point blank into the Orion

The bullets did hit I'm sure as my reticle flashed red but it seemed like nothing else was happening. The Orion still stood there with its Orange CT seemingly mocking our puny gunfire.
There wasn't even a shade of difference.

In the end my mpls had cooled down enough to discharge it into the Orion - which turned it's CT red.

I stopped using mgs months ago in my Ember due to similar issues but thought of giving it a go again.. Looks like nothing's changed.

[Xetelian]

MGs got over nerfed and now we have to wait till they decide to buff them again.

[Mcgral18]

They are essentially Flamers, but with a CoF.


They took a 25% DPS nerf awhile back, though the straight up 20% damage nerf hurt the most.

[Dirk Le Daring]

They must be doing something.....

C-MACHINE GUN

Games 430
Fired 345,082
Hit 155,109
Hit percent 44.95%
Time equipped 1 day 16:47:21
Damage done 14,172

From the weapon stats page, it's not much but at least it's something.

And I have not used them a lot before the Clan mechs, and mainly on my Timberwolf, which is quite close to a stock build. Which is why I keep them.
I'm pretty sure that I have one or two kills with machineguns, finishing a cored mech, no armour, and orange or red internals. <-- Cannot remember clearly though.

[Spheroid]

Isn't it a presumed nerf based on observation? The devs never mentioned a dps nerf in the patch notes or video interviews.

Is the very obvious loss of lethality somehow related to changes in net code and therefore an unintended change?

Edited by Spheroid, 16 March 2015 - 08:13 PM.

[Dirk Le Daring]

Mcgral18, on 16 March 2015 - 05:55 PM, said:

They are essentially Flamers, but with a CoF.


They took a 25% DPS nerf awhile back, though the straight up 20% damage nerf hurt the most.

Well, they could use a bit of loving then. I was wondering what the numbers were, and that's quite a percentage.

[FupDup]

Spheroid, on 16 March 2015 - 06:05 PM, said:

Isn't it a presumed nerf based on obseravation? The devs never mentioned a dps nerf in the patch notes or video interviews.

Is the very obvious loss of lethality somehow related to changes in net code and therefore an unintended change?

When the Clan Invasion dropped in, MGs got their damage per bullet reduced from 0.1 to 0.08. They "supposedly" compensated for it with a hit detection fix, which would mean that they "expected" the overall lethality to remain the same.

However, in reality, the reduced direct damage also had a stacking effect with dramatically reducing the critical hit damage they deal, which therefore made them overall suckier than before.

[Mcgral18]

Spheroid, on 16 March 2015 - 06:05 PM, said:

Isn't it a presumed nerf based on obseravation? The devs never mentioned a dps nerf in the patch notes or video interviews.

Is the very obvious loss of lethality somehow related to changes in net code and therefore an unintended change?

No, the nerfs were documented. A 20% damage nerf, from 0.1 to 0.08 damage per tick, and prior to that a 15% crit % nerf.

The total effect was a 25% overall DPS nerf against open internals, or just a straight up 20% damage nerf against armour.

Mcgral18, on 09 March 2015 - 09:54 AM, said:

I'll do the old math too, with 1 DPS. Both before and after that 15% crit nerf.

It still has the same 9x damage multiplier per bullet.


So, 67% crit chance and 1 DPS means 0.135 damage per crit, instead of 0.1.

• 6% chance to deal 2.7 critical damage
  
• 22% chance to deal 1.8 critical damage
  
• 39% chance to deal 0.9 critical damage

In other words:

• 6% chance to deal 0.405 Internal Structure damage
  
• 22% chance to deal 0.27 Internal Structure damage
  
• 39% chance to deal 0.135 Internal Structure damage

That means an average DPS per MG of 1.6


52% crit chance, 1 DPS:

• 4% chance to deal 2.7 critical damage
  
• 17% chance to deal 1.8 critical damage
  
• 31% chance to deal 0.9 critical damage

In other words:

• 4% chance to deal 0.405 Internal Structure damage
  
• 17% chance to deal 0.27 Internal Structure damage
  
• 31% chance to deal 0.135 Internal Structure damage

That drops the DPS to 1.52.



So, 1.6>1.52>1.21

A full 25% nerf between the 20% damage and 15% crit chance.

[Tylerchu]

I killed a light orange CT Atlas with a 6 MG Jager. I had depleted my 2 AC10s and the Atlas evidently didn't see fit to bother with my plinking so it went off chasing something else. Obviously I easily kept up with him and kept pouring machine gun fire into his back CT, stripping off that last point or two of rear armor and scraping away at the CT. It at least a good 10 seconds but I managed to kill that Atlas.

[Baron Blitz Fokheimer]

Tylerchu, on 16 March 2015 - 06:25 PM, said:

I killed a light orange CT Atlas with a 6 MG Jager. I had depleted my 2 AC10s and the Atlas evidently didn't see fit to bother with my plinking so it went off chasing something else. Obviously I easily kept up with him and kept pouring machine gun fire into his back CT, stripping off that last point or two of rear armor and scraping away at the CT. It at least a good 10 seconds but I managed to kill that Atlas.

How did you manage to fit 8 ballistics on a Jager?

Anyways, the MGs feel like a waste of space now. Even having 6 of them on an Arrow feels entirely ineffectual on a target stripped of armor. Even lights with exposed legs have nothing to fear from them anymore.

Edited by Baron Blitz Fokheimer, 16 March 2015 - 07:32 PM.

[Tylerchu]

Baron Blitz Fokheimer, on 16 March 2015 - 07:32 PM, said:

How did you manage to fit 8 ballistics on a Jager?

Anyways, the MGs feel like a waste of space now. Even having 6 of them on an Arrow feels entirely ineffectual on a target stripped of armor. Even lights with exposed legs have nothing to fear from them anymore.

My mistake. Four MG, two AC10. I knew something looked off about my description...

[Burktross]

My poor poor arrow wishes his mgs were good...

[Greenjulius]

The problem is that MGs force you to face tank at super close ranges, guaranteeing that you will die against a decent opponent. They need that 20% damage back.

I ran the Arrow with 3xLPL for a while, just because I'm still not happy with MGs, even with the big range quirk on the Arrow for MGs.

I brought the MGs back out because I have a nasty tendency to overheat in the worst situations with 3xLPL. The only perk to the MGs other than a little extra heatless damage at close range is that they make people panic for no reason.

Those that understand that pathetic damage my MGs do to them will just tank it, and melt my face. Those who aren't in the know with turn tail and often get smeared.

Edited by Greenjulius, 16 March 2015 - 07:44 PM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Machine Guns need to be ballistic weapons, IMHO, not spread hitscan lazors.

[Troutmonkey]

I got legged in my Panther last night to a Locust 1V. Does that count?

[Cementi]

MG's do well. If used correctly too well.

Their raw damage is pretty bad but its when they get into the internals that their crit chance starts to shine.

[RedDevil]

Praetor Knight, on 16 March 2015 - 07:44 PM, said:

Machine Guns need to be ballistic weapons, IMHO, not spread hitscan lazors.

They are ballistic weapons. They have a bullet speed of 100. In comparison, an AC/20 has a bullet speed of 650. They're really slow ballistic weapons at that.

[FupDup]

reddevil, on 16 March 2015 - 08:12 PM, said:

They are ballistic weapons. They have a bullet speed of 100. In comparison, an AC/20 has a bullet speed of 650. They're really slow ballistic weapons at that.

The bullet speed is only aesthetic. The actual damage is dealt as hitscan.

[RedDevil]

So much, hidden information.

[FupDup]

reddevil, on 16 March 2015 - 08:18 PM, said:

So much, hidden information.

Did you know that ECM actually turns Artemis SRMs into regular SRMs?

True story.