68 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

Nerethis, on 17 March 2015 - 11:27 AM, said:

Also, Koniving, i think your links got broken at some point (i do not see any in your post)

Edit: I did recall one more question! How often do the trial mechs change?

Redid them as links.
Trials seem to change every month or two -- it used to be every two weeks but back then it was 4 mechs at a time.

[Metus regem]

MonkeyCheese, on 16 March 2015 - 11:59 PM, said:

I may be able to give some quick tips for light mechs since that is what I drive the most, and you did mention running around and capping

For the IS

Locust 20tons- Hard mode, least armor/weapons/heat capacity but when finally speed tweaked they have the combo of being the smallest/fastest things in MWO at 170kph. Builds are energy, energy/small missles and energy/machine guns.

Commandos 25 tons - can get up to 170kph in some variants decent little missile/energy mechs, arm hardpoints are fantastic for taging with energy at speed.

Spiders 30 tons - up to 170kph on some variants, Decent jumpjets and all round quality energy or energy/machine gun mechs, unless you are crazy like some (me) and go bigger ballistics with a slower engine. 5D with ecm makes a fantastic ERPPC sniper. (The 12JJ 2 energy 5V is still terrible tho)

The Firestarter 35 tons - 150kph max, the go to jumping energy/machinegun mechs of the light class. Solid choice here. Decent arm actuators

The Jenner 35 tons - 150kph max same as the firestarter but energy/missles with jumpjets, the cener torso is bigger so its a little less sturdy.

The Raven 35 tons - up to 150kph some are slower, no jumpjets on the 2x and 3L the 4x and hero have them. The 3L is the fast energy/missles, the 4X does big ballistics fairly well and the 2x is the energy boat.

The Panther 35 tons, 124kph max speed, build more around support brawling or long range sniping but they have jumpjets.


Clan tech (engines and speed are hardlocked)

The Myst linx 25 tons, JJs but very hard mode being 25 tons and locked at 124kph with small tonnage for weapons, can snipe and energy boat decently tho. energy/missile builds

The Kitfox 30 tons, 124kph max but lots of room for weapons, can have ecm and boats missles or energy well, fairly sturdy.

Adder 35 tons, exactly the same as the kitfox but no jumpjets or ecm and 5 more tons to play with.

And there is the Cheetah coming in a "few" months tho 30 tons but with a faster locked in engine for about 145kph i think, energy/missle builds.

I would also add for the IS lights:

The Locust, requires good piloting, situational awareness and knowledge of what mechs can and cannot do. That being said, they are an excellent teacher for good piloting.

On the heavier side, the Dragon is also a good teacher for piloting skills, as she requires a lot of what the Locust does, just on a bigger chassis, that can mount more, and take more punishment. When i started I started with a Dragon, not a choice I reget in the slightest, as it made me better at piloting.

Another recommendation would be Hunchbacks/Centurions/Shadow Hawks, all three of those are Medium weight mechs, with good hard point layouts, and all are really forgiving to a new player, as well as teaching some of the required skills, like torso twisting, to spread damage across your mech.

As for Clans Vs. IS, well IS offers more customization, at the expense of tonnage and damage (not a lot mind you), while Clans offer less bulky equipment at the expense of customization and heat...

Having played Clans for the better part of a year, I have gone to IS, for more variety of options when playing the game, rather than the same three or four chassis that the Clans offer.

[YCSLiesmith]

the only good dragon is the 2 ac5 Dragon-1N. that thing is a dps beast though.

[Metus regem]

YCSLiesmith, on 17 March 2015 - 11:55 AM, said:

the only good dragon is the 2 ac5 Dragon-1N. that thing is a dps beast though.

Yup, just picked one up last-night, had a 'blast' with it too.. but when I started it was pre-quirking, and not knowing any better I started with the 1C...

[YCSLiesmith]

Metus regem, on 17 March 2015 - 12:20 PM, said:

Yup, just picked one up last-night, had a 'blast' with it too.. but when I started it was pre-quirking, and not knowing any better I started with the 1C...

ugh, i'm sorry man. if you've still got it you can load it up with a gauss rifle and snipe I guess, just for the points towards eliting. but yeah that mech blows.

[Metus regem]

YCSLiesmith, on 17 March 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

ugh, i'm sorry man. if you've still got it you can load it up with a gauss rifle and snipe I guess, just for the points towards eliting. but yeah that mech blows.

Honestly, I like running it, I go against the grain and use a LB-10X in it... Now that I've got a 340XL from my Battle master 3S, once I've got basics on the 1N done I'll put it in the 1C...

Still with out the pain of running the 1C, I wouldn't be the above average pilot I am now, no matter the chassis I run... Now to work on my gunnery....

[Moat Drifter]

I actually found this thread quite useful and would nominate it (if I could) to be a sticky. There is a wealth of information for the basic newbie player (those that have never played an on-line 'Mech-type game before) as well as a lot of detailed information and people willing to take their own time to help out on all things anyone does not understand.
Shame I cannot ask for this to be a sticky though; it has (and probably will even after I well long well get used to the game) be of help for me in whatever I do wrong or decide a different course of action.

[Zen Warrior]

Hey,i've read that u are skilled with rockets. Me too and i go with a kit fox d with 2 LRM + artemis,a lot of ammo and clan active probe. My best score was 3 kills and 7 assists with that mech. Maybe ur mech was catapult,mad dog or mad cat (aka timber wolf) But as a rookie like me,u need lots of hours of practice and this game have 2 years on,plus the beta times,so there is a lot of skilled players here and this players dont put u the things easy. I've tryed,like the video of the raven,a mech with 4 machine guns and a medium pulse laser. I get some kills,but not more than 1 in one match. Other point was the light mechs,there are the most hated in battlefield but the most useful in hands of a pro player,they move fast and versus a heavy mech it have the things easy,because u move around it and shooting caused they are slow. I cant do this caused my computer have low FPS in large battles and MWO are large battles every time,but maybe u can do same work of the video of the raven if u have good computer and low ping,and of course lot of practice. Remember that the cadet bonuses only have 25,and only one time,so select ur mech with attention. If u think that u are good with rocket weapons,try the catapult,the mad dog or the timber wolf. Hope it helps.

[Nerethis]

I did try to LRM spam with the one trial that allows it (the Mad Dog), but i doubt that will be for me - it does not seem fun to stand around and spam rockets, and then being useless once i run out of them.

One more thing, though. If i go with, say, the Cataphract/Hunchback/Jaeger (based on what i have seen so far) is there a particular model i should get? Also, what is the closest trial equivalent to these (in terms of the flank-y playstyle), so i can get a good feel for it?

[Zen Warrior]

Nerethis, on 17 March 2015 - 10:40 PM, said:

I did try to LRM spam with the one trial that allows it (the Mad Dog), but i doubt that will be for me - it does not seem fun to stand around and spam rockets, and then being useless once i run out of them.

One more thing, though. If i go with, say, the Cataphract/Hunchback/Jaeger (based on what i have seen so far) is there a particular model i should get? Also, what is the closest trial equivalent to these (in terms of the flank-y playstyle), so i can get a good feel for it?

Be aware because now,at this moment,said THIS hours,there is a problem with LRM and other rockets targeting system. The MWO team going to fix it. But its ok,if u think that spamming rockets its not ur playstyle try others,like Hunckback super cannon style.

[Metus regem]

Another thing about LRM's when you are new, they are good weapons, but as you play more, you will find them get less and less effective. As you will find people that know how to avoid getting hit by them. They are also an inefficient weapon, as they have a tendency to put damage all over the target.

[Zen Warrior]

Metus regem, on 18 March 2015 - 04:08 AM, said:

Another thing about LRM's when you are new, they are good weapons, but as you play more, you will find them get less and less effective. As you will find people that know how to avoid getting hit by them. They are also an inefficient weapon, as they have a tendency to put damage all over the target.

Then,mechs like mád dog or catapult are completely useless not????

[Metus regem]

Zen Warrior, on 18 March 2015 - 04:39 AM, said:

Then,mechs like mád dog or catapult are completely useless not????

Yes and no, as pure LRM slingers they can be, as mobile launch platforms, sometimes.

Honestly, I can't remember the last time I died to LRM fire. But I make use of all the counters to it, Terrain, ECM and AMS, and in the case of IS LRM's being under 180m. Against Clan LRM's due to the fireing mechanics they are highly vulnerable to AMS.

[Zen Warrior]

But lrm mechs can be surely support mechs,dont u think??? Anyway ive killed a mech with AMS,surprise!!!

Edited by Zen Warrior, 18 March 2015 - 05:36 AM.

[Metus regem]

Zen Warrior, on 18 March 2015 - 05:19 AM, said:

But lrm mechs can be surely support mechs,dont u think??? Anyway ive killed a mech with AMS,surprise!!!

I'm not saying that they don't make good support units, just you may find that later on, your damage done, drops off with LRM's, rather sharply, as you start to face better pilots.

Yes LRM's can get past AMS, but AMS does reduce the damage that they do, for example a triple AMS Kit Fox, like this one:

KFX-TOOLBOX

When I do use my Kit Fox, this is the one that I use, yes it never does much damage, but the heavies and assaults that I hang out around, get to the battle with out much or any missile damage taken.

The thing about Clan LRM's vs AMS, is that due to the stream firing that they do, a single AMS can just about take out a full LRM 5, and my triple AMS Kit Fox will almost kill an LRM 40 salvo from a stock Mad Dog Prime.

The best time to hammer something with LRM's is when they are out in the open with out near by hard cover (read cover twice the height of your mech), or AMS support.

I was in a game this morning before work, where everyone had AMS on my team, no missiles landed on our mechs, as we all worked as a group, moved as a group, and provided AMS cover to each other. The sad part was, we were facing a LRM heavy foe, and used everything to get a stomp 12v1... Those kinds of games I don't find fun, as it feels little different than running in the training grounds, or using god mode in an single player FPS.

What it all comes down to with LRM's is knowing when and where to pick your targets, but they are not a weapon to rely on, otherwise you will miss learning a lot of the skills that will save you as your ELO gets higher and higher.

[Koniving]

Zen Warrior, on 17 March 2015 - 10:48 PM, said:

Be aware because now,at this moment,said THIS hours,there is a problem with LRM and other rockets targeting system. The MWO team going to fix it. But its ok,if u think that spamming rockets its not ur playstyle try others,like Hunckback super cannon style.

While it might be a bug, I rather like it. It seems that missiles lock with dead-center, and target lock decays if you're off center. It's something that many people have actually requested -- and we get it in the form of a bug.

The issue I have is it decays suddenly rather than gradually.

[Koniving]

Sent my feedback to the thread on the topic.
I'll have a recording of the issue pretty shortly (clearing some space on the fraps drive).

Zen Warrior, on 18 March 2015 - 05:19 AM, said:

But lrm mechs can be surely support mechs,dont u think??? Anyway ive killed a mech with AMS,surprise!!!

Imagine getting kills back in these days. Those missiles....beautiful. Kill by legging or ripping off limbs rather than direct CT.


Missiles now.

[Barkem Squirrel]

I agree there is something up with the LRM targeting and decay. It makes it harder, but there are ways around it. Command console, Artemis, TAG, and Target info gathering all lower the time to get a lock to almost nothing. (and yes, not too many people know about this) So for 7 tons on an assualt with 3 LRM launchers you can have almost immediate locks when you have line of sight. Which is about the best way to run LRMs. More dangerous, but very effective.

Then if you have a direwolf at 200 m, just dead fire the LRMs in his face, that still works perfect.

Forgot BAP also so 8.5 tons.

Edited by Barkem Squirrel, 18 March 2015 - 08:22 AM.

[Metus regem]

Koniving, on 18 March 2015 - 08:02 AM, said:

Sent my feedback to the thread on the topic.
I'll have a recording of the issue pretty shortly (clearing some space on the fraps drive).



Imagine getting kills back in these days. Those missiles....beautiful. Kill by legging or ripping off limbs rather than direct CT.

The game looked so much better then... I wish I had, had a machine that could have run it, and been a founder...

[YCSLiesmith]

Zen Warrior, on 18 March 2015 - 05:19 AM, said:

But lrm mechs can be surely support mechs,dont u think??? Anyway ive killed a mech with AMS,surprise!!!

no. LRMs are not useful as support mechs.

here's the thing: you can beat a single ams with LRMs, sure. a single ams is not a useful countermeasure. you know what is a useful countermeasure? knowing how to play. that's all it takes to make LRMs useless. on maps with cover (all maps) against groups with ECM (most organized groups), against multiple AMS mechs (not common, admittedly) or against players who know how you play, your LRM boat is going to get chewed up and deal negligible damage.

LRM mechs cap out at about 600 damage. that's if all your shots are well placed and you're playing against morons and just firing until your ammo runs out. you can maybe up that if you drop all your armor or some nonsense but not by much. And you'll rarely see 600 damage because a guy with LRMs is advertising that he's a bad player who has wasted a lot of tonnage and who wants to get ganged up on and chewed up.

Now, 600 damage may feel like a lot. it isn't, but it's great for newbies! the first time you crack 500 damage you feel like you've finally gotten this game. It's a joy, I remember it well.

this feeling is an illusion.

LRMs spread damage over the entire enemy mech. 500 damage to a whole mech might not even kill it, where 100 damage to the rear side torso or a leg will. you're artificially inflating your damage with LRMs and you don't even know it. Also, as your ELO goes up, you'll see fewer and fewer people who are dumb enough to get hit with LRMs. so you start out bad because you're new, get good with your chosen weapon, then watch in horror as your (mediocre) numbers start to actually slide backwards. only where before your low numbers were just because you were a newbie learning the game, now you're straight bad at mechs.

But im different, you say. I'm an amazing mechwarrior, way better than YCS liesmith, and what he says does not apply to me. I will get 800 damage a match! I'm incredible! well, that's great, but now you need to compare to other weapons. where you were getting 800 damage to some king crab and barely killing it, a real support player got behind an atlas and dropped it with a couple gauss shots, then cored a light and legged a stormcrow. Efficient, targeted damage, allowing the player to cripple or destroy a mech and then move on. That's where real killing power lies.

Further, lets talk about the other side of support: damage taken. In a firing line, a group of players in decently resilient mechs line up and focus down enemies. the enemies are forced through some sort of gap so they are approaching one on one, and hopefully are disoriented and splitting their fire. by adding more bodies to the line, you give the enemy more targets, meaning less damage on any one player, and also carry more ordinance as a unit, so that the unit as a whole drills through their called targets faster. Where is the LRM boat in all this? he's standing in the back with no damage taken. he may feel proud of this. "they didn't even get close" he chortles. but his safety comes at the cost of his unit. if you've got 10 guys with semi-equal armor, but one is sitting in the back avoiding damage, that line gets killed 10% faster. that means less time to do damage, less overall damage by the unit, and ultimately lost games. The LRM guy is wasting his allies' potential damage by acting selfishly.

tl;dr: don't LRM.