716 replies to this topic

[Kristov Kerensky]

Aethon, on 31 March 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

To get back on track, here is most players' beef with this nerf, in a nutshell:

Do you guys have trouble killing the Kit Fox? How about the Nova, Summoner or Gargoyle? Are these mechs really OP in your eyes?

If the answer is no, then why are you proposing a nerf to them?

I am asking because I honestly want to understand where this is coming from.

What part of

PGI DECIDED THIS CHANGE ON THEIR OWN BASED ON THEIR OWN INTERNAL DATA

are you not getting?

You guys keep saying this is a PLAYER thing, it's not, it's a PGI thing, REMEMBER?

Oh, tell Kim we said hi!

[Lily from animove]

Aethon, on 31 March 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

To get back on track, here is most players' beef with this nerf, in a nutshell:

Do you guys have trouble killing the Kit Fox? How about the Nova, Summoner or Gargoyle? Are these mechs really OP in your eyes?

If the answer is no, then why are you proposing a nerf to them?

I am asking because I honestly want to understand where this is coming from.

you won't get an answer on that because the answer would not support the anti-XL factions opinion.

Edited by Lily from animove, 01 April 2015 - 06:39 AM.

[Aethon]

Kristov Kerensky, on 01 April 2015 - 06:16 AM, said:

What part of

PGI DECIDED THIS CHANGE ON THEIR OWN BASED ON THEIR OWN INTERNAL DATA

are you not getting?

You guys keep saying this is a PLAYER thing, it's not, it's a PGI thing, REMEMBER?

Oh, tell Kim we said hi!

First off, it was a typo; I changed the word 'proposing' to 'supporting' in my post.

They have not decided anything yet, judging by the dev twitter post, unless you can show me something new they have posted since that time. 'Probably' does not mean the same thing as 'certainly'.

Also, you can get as technical as you want; some players are supporting it, and it is primarily those players I was addressing with my post. However, if PGI is keeping track of the community's response to this, it might give them some food for thought.

Edited by Aethon, 01 April 2015 - 09:57 AM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Aethon, on 01 April 2015 - 09:55 AM, said:

First off, it was a typo; I changed the word 'proposing' to 'supporting' in my post.

They have not decided anything yet, judging by the dev twitter post, unless you can show me something new they have posted since that time. 'Probably' does not mean the same thing as 'certainly'.

Also, you can get as technical as you want; some players are supporting it, and it is primarily those players I was addressing with my post. However, if PGI is keeping track of the community's response to this, it might give them some food for thought.

I support it because it's a logical fix to an obvious imbalance in regards to the XL engines and it's no where near as damaging as made out by Gyrok and his supporters, that's been shown through the math multiple times and keeps being ignored because it doesn't fit their agenda. Not to mention the massive amount of outright lies and hyperbole they keep tossing out, it's rather telling don't you think? Not to mention they continue to make this out to be a player initiated and created thing despite the fact that it was Russ who brought it up and that that has been pointed out time and time again and yet they continue to make it out to be the 'no skilled IS losers' who are SCREAMING for this. Sorry, but you lost any semblance of logic or reasonableness with that the FIRST time it was used, the continued use is making Kanye look like a reasonable guy.

And you might want to actually check the community's response, I don't think you'll find the anti-change crowd is actually all that big, tends to be a small section of the community speaking against the proposed changes.

[Gyrok]

Kristov Kerensky, on 01 April 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

I support it because it's a logical fix to an obvious imbalance in regards to the XL engines and it's no where near as damaging as made out by Gyrok and his supporters, that's been shown through the math multiple times and keeps being ignored because it doesn't fit their agenda. Not to mention the massive amount of outright lies and hyperbole they keep tossing out, it's rather telling don't you think? Not to mention they continue to make this out to be a player initiated and created thing despite the fact that it was Russ who brought it up and that that has been pointed out time and time again and yet they continue to make it out to be the 'no skilled IS losers' who are SCREAMING for this. Sorry, but you lost any semblance of logic or reasonableness with that the FIRST time it was used, the continued use is making Kanye look like a reasonable guy.

And you might want to actually check the community's response, I don't think you'll find the anti-change crowd is actually all that big, tends to be a small section of the community speaking against the proposed changes.

Point out to me a legitimate set of mathematics that can quantify the impact on TTK of speed loss on a crippled mech through meaningful data.

You cannot produce that.

Also, you might want to check other forums, as the group against this is actually quite large, and more and more are speaking up, there are also people on reddit who do not venture here that are disgusted by the proposal. The only crowd that wants it most is the neckbeard TT purists that want all engines to have crits, but that will never happen.

Edited by Gyrok, 01 April 2015 - 11:24 AM.

[Pjwned]

Aethon, on 31 March 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

To get back on track, here is most players' beef with this nerf, in a nutshell:

Do you guys have trouble killing the Kit Fox? How about the Nova, Summoner or Gargoyle? Are these mechs really OP in your eyes?

If the answer is no, then why are you supporting a nerf to them?

I am asking because I honestly want to understand where this is coming from.

Lily from animove, on 01 April 2015 - 06:36 AM, said:

you won't get an answer on that because the answer would not support the anti-XL factions opinion.

The answer is that clan XL engines are too powerful regardless of what mech is using them. You can whine about all the terrible mechs being nerfed by this all you want, doesn't change that it's true, and on top of that those lower tier mechs are being addressed with quirks which clan apologists flagrantly ignore.

Gyrok, on 01 April 2015 - 11:23 AM, said:

The only crowd that wants it most is the neckbeard TT purists that want all engines to have crits, but that will never happen.

So it's fair that the crit penalty for IS XL engines is mech destruction while the crit penalty for clan XL engines is barely anything.

Oh wait, it isn't fair. Regardless of how anybody tries to spin this as clans being penalized by engine crits more than IS it is always a completely bullshit argument because in the exact same circumstances the clan mech is still operational with its side torso gone, even with a 20% speed nerf despite massive amounts of crying about being a death sentence or other such bullshit when it's not, while the IS mech is not operational.

You can have XL engines with huge weight savings that don't destroy the mech when a side torso is lost because clan technology has its checks and balances in a number of ways, but you can't walk away from that with barely any penalty to show for it because that's unbalanced on any mech.

Edited by Pjwned, 01 April 2015 - 11:49 AM.

[Gyrok]

Pjwned, on 01 April 2015 - 11:47 AM, said:

The answer is that clan XL engines are too powerful regardless of what mech is using them. You can whine about all the terrible mechs being nerfed by this all you want, doesn't change that it's true, and on top of that those lower tier mechs are being addressed with quirks which clan apologists flagrantly ignore.



So it's fair that the crit penalty for IS XL engines is mech destruction while the crit penalty for clan XL engines is barely anything.

Oh wait, it isn't fair. Regardless of how anybody tries to spin this as clans being penalized by engine crits more than IS it is always a completely bullshit argument because in the exact same circumstances the clan mech is still operational with its side torso gone, even with a 20% speed nerf despite massive amounts of crying about being a death sentence or other such bullshit when it's not, while the IS mech is not operational.

You can have XL engines with huge weight savings that don't destroy the mech when a side torso is lost because clan technology has its checks and balances in a number of ways, but you can't walk away from that with barely any penalty to show for it because that's unbalanced on any mech.

Considering the choice you have to run an XL or STD, it is fair. You have an option that is more durable for more weight, or an option to go faster/bring more weapons for less weight.

I would still be fine with LFEs, but the advantage is customization for the IS. How many clan mechs do you think we wish could put endo steel on?

[Summon3r]

make clan mechs OMNImechs and IS mechs BATTLEmechs not vice versa, then ill be fine with the ST speed loss,

fyi if you lose a ST now and have anything in the way of E weapons left you can barely fire them without overheating.

also nerf clans MOAR cause 50+ planet loss in 4 days wasnt enough of an eye opener lol

[Mcgral18]

Pjwned, on 01 April 2015 - 11:47 AM, said:

The answer is that clan XL engines are too powerful regardless of what mech is using them. You can whine about all the terrible mechs being nerfed by this all you want, doesn't change that it's true, and on top of that those lower tier mechs are being addressed with quirks which clan apologists flagrantly ignore.

Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of my 4% shorter beam durations.


Aw Yiss.

Badder OP PLz nerf. 8 TrueDubs is simply too many.

[Pjwned]

Gyrok, on 01 April 2015 - 11:51 AM, said:

Considering the choice you have to run an XL or STD, it is fair. You have an option that is more durable for more weight, or an option to go faster/bring more weapons for less weight.

Having a choice between an inferior XL engine or a STD engine is not comparable to an engine with XL weight savings with barely any crit penalty, namely because you don't need a choice with such a powerful piece of equipment. You can have an XL engine with 2 slots and even more weight savings than a LFE, fine, but you don't get to also shrug off losing 20% of your engine like it's practically nothing because that is NOT fair.

Quote

I would still be fine with LFEs, but the advantage is customization for the IS. How many clan mechs do you think we wish could put endo steel on?

Upgrade imbalances, which are another matter anyways, can be addressed by other means like making standard structure and ferro fibrous armor not crap.

Mcgral18, on 01 April 2015 - 12:08 PM, said:

Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of my 4% shorter beam durations.


Aw Yiss.

Badder OP PLz nerf. 8 TrueDubs is simply too many.

You're just proving my point about ignoring quirks and you've been doing it the entire thread, not to mention you ignore every other point made including why a cXL nerf is still justified despite your constant whining about THE BADDER BLUH BLUH BLOO.

Edited by Pjwned, 01 April 2015 - 12:32 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Pjwned, on 01 April 2015 - 12:31 PM, said:

You're just proving my point about ignoring quirks and you've been doing it the entire thread, not to mention you ignore every other point made including why a cXL nerf is still justified despite your constant whining about THE BADDER BLUH BLUH BLOO.

Myth Lynx
Cute Fox
Badder
Ice Fridge
NopeVa
Summoner
Mr Gargles


As opposed to the Good Robots:
Stormcrow
TimberGod


Wow....just wow.
The alright robots, which may require small touches in different direction, include
Whale
PeaceDove
Loki

Vulture might fit in the last one.



Yeah, so instead of blanket nerfing the 8 Terribad chassis' to touch two robots....why not touch two robots?

BJ1X has a torso yaw of 96 degrees, a fast moving robot with 8 hardpoints.
The Stormcrow has a torso yaw of 156 degrees, a fast moving robot with up to 10 hardpoints.


There is something that IS NOT A BLANKET NERF which will affect the DoomCrow. You're welcome.

Edited by Mcgral18, 01 April 2015 - 12:38 PM.

[Pjwned]

Pjwned, on 01 April 2015 - 11:47 AM, said:

The answer is that clan XL engines are too powerful regardless of what mech is using them. You can whine about all the terrible mechs being nerfed by this all you want, doesn't change that it's true, and on top of that those lower tier mechs are being addressed with quirks which clan apologists flagrantly ignore.

[Mcgral18]

Pjwned, on 01 April 2015 - 12:44 PM, said:

So,
CLAMS OP PLZ BLANKET NERF EVERYTHING!!1!

I see

[Dugra Dugrasson]

I think the best way to balance the Clans, without nerfing them, is to advance the timeline to 3130 and fight each other in AgroMechs.

Also Clanners forget that PGI haven't implemented the BIG CLAN NERFS yet...

... Zellbrigen.

Edited by nodebate, 01 April 2015 - 01:03 PM.

[Pjwned]

Mcgral18, on 01 April 2015 - 12:48 PM, said:

So,
CLAMS OP PLZ BLANKET NERF EVERYTHING!!1!

I see

Sure, whatever, but when you don't even try to dispute that clan XL engines are too powerful and instead just opt for whining then it's not exactly a great argument.

[Mcgral18]

Pjwned, on 01 April 2015 - 01:14 PM, said:

Sure, whatever, but when you don't even try to dispute that clan XL engines are too powerful and instead just opt for whining then it's not exactly a great argument.

Gimping the Myth Lynx isn't exactly what I call balance....

Give it 10 TrueDubs and the ability to swap engines, and you could go along with that. As it stands, Duck no.

[Johnny Z]

I wonder when the Omni mech XL speed reduction to side torso loss is coming? Also the negative quirks for the Timberwolf, Stormcrow, Dire Wolf and Loki?

Edited by Johnny Z, 01 April 2015 - 01:29 PM.

[KharnZor]

Common sense tells me a damaged engine probably shouldn't be operating at peak efficiency. But common sense never really applies here.
At least you don't automatically explode.

[Mcgral18]

KharnZor, on 01 April 2015 - 01:37 PM, said:

Common sense tells me a damaged engine probably shouldn't be operating at peak efficiency. But common sense never really applies here.
At least you don't automatically explode.

No, you just explode when someone shoots your exceedingly slow robot.

Also, shielding, not the engine itself.

[KharnZor]

Mcgral18, on 01 April 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

No, you just explode when someone shoots your exceedingly slow robot.

Also, shielding, not the engine itself.

ok