264 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

Please, It's a bad idea when it is about speed reduction.

Clanners can not change their engines, they have not the standard variant available.


And the very most important why to not do this:

Its an unbalanced effect on the clanmechs.
Clanmechs are bound to their Engines sizes, this nerf hits the SCR, the NVA the IFR completely differently hard.
And so this nerf does distribute totally differently amongst the clanmechs causing more chaos in the balance than it actually does fix, especially in the interclan balance.
You can not increase engine size to adjust the slower clanmechs to proper speed after ST death. and mechs like the gargoyle that sacrifice a unhealthy amount of weight into an oversized engine will just have adressed pointless tonnage into this speed. Clans can also not switch to a standard engine.

Clans get quirks now, and then putting such an idea on the table as well will just mess up balance totally after some have received quirks and some not.

If anything, then buff the IS XL's to be not a ST death. They still consume 2 more slots in eahc sidetorso. That would probably be way better, it would also increase the low ttk by letting some is mechs survive a bit longer. And scrubs using an XL engine in an XL unsuited shaped mech will have a bit less harder time. Which also helps to equal out the lesser experienced IS newbie pilots skillgap.

[GeneralArmchair]

Hmm, speed reduction still sounds a hell of a lot better than death. I think you're still getting a great deal.

[Stoned Prophet]

Nah, its a good idea. Makes sense too. I wont have any problems adjusting.

All the Clan Whinygirls "warriors" who cry about it? Their tears are delicious and go well with cookies.

GeneralArmchair, on 17 March 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

Hmm, speed reduction still sounds a hell of a lot better than death. I think you're still getting a great deal.

ONLY CLANNERS MAY POST ON THIS TOPIC FREEBIRTH! Nah im just kiddin' lol

[Rhaythe]

It needs some kind of balancing component. Clans and IS around 3050 were *never* meant to be even in lore. So for a multiplayer game, some kind of mechanic is needed, and this is a very good start.

As has been mentioned, you're not dying when you lose a side torso. You're way ahead of the IS XL curve still.

[Mechteric]

It's a good idea, stop complaining and lets see how things go after it rolls out.

[BARBAR0SSA]

GeneralArmchair, on 17 March 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

Hmm, speed reduction still sounds a hell of a lot better than death. I think you're still getting a great deal.

I'd be fine with this, except that a few IS lights can tank a world of more damage than an Nova, Ice Ferret, Adder, Kit Fox, Myst Lynx. They need to turn on XL engine swapping, there's no reason not to.

Honestly they should be working on fixing hit reg/phantom half damage on fast targets before implementing something that just gimps the light mechs on clan side even further.

[Bishop Steiner]

Stoned Prophet, on 17 March 2015 - 07:41 AM, said:

Nah, its a good idea. Makes sense too. I wont have any problems adjusting.

All the Clan Whinygirls "warriors" who cry about it? Their tears are delicious and go well with cookies.


ONLY CLANNERS MAY POST ON THIS TOPIC FREEBIRTH! Nah im just kiddin' lol

Why do all the Whiners seem to be from Clan Wolf?

OK, to be fair, there are a few Smoking Jags that QQ quite a bit too. But Most self respecting Bears and Falcons don't seem to have an issue..........

Performance Anxiety, perhaps?

[DONTOR]

GeneralArmchair, on 17 March 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

Hmm, speed reduction still sounds a hell of a lot better than death. I think you're still getting a great deal.

Yes but you get the option of a standard engine, and dont have to die from a ST loss. Thats your choice. If I could standard engine my DW after these changes than I would.

IS quirks were implemented to compete with Clan mechs how they are now. They will all have to be toned down to compensate for these changes.

Stll Im quite happy with the Structure boosts that some of the Clan mechs got recently so that will help.

[KraftySOT]

While I agree I dont like the new penalties. Its not because theyre harsh, its just because theyre arbitrary and not actually the penalties you should have for having two critical engine hits.

Speed is part of it, but the whole 'recalibrating engine' thing is ridiculous.

It should be -1 MP (-20KPH, it comes from your walking speed) and +5 heat per 10 seconds, per engine hit.

Clan mechs should be -2 MPs (-40kph) and +10 heat every 10 seconds when they get their 2 engine crits destroyed losing a ST.

If that kills you from overheating. So be it.

Edited by KraftySOT, 17 March 2015 - 07:50 AM.

[Illya Ghost Bear]

Stop being bad, Wolf Pups! How you ever came to house the genetic repository of the great Kerensky is a mystery!

"Oh no!!! My mech goes slow when when I lose a ST...."

Yes, and your stravag targets die.

Wolfs. No wonder every time I drop and get stuck in their premades they lose.

[keith]

my question is, will the engine nerf go away when the IS gets all their new toys? this all depends on what timeline pgi jumps too. the IS does get some decent stuff to fight the clans, y nerf clan XL when u can add something in lore to fight it?

[Illya Ghost Bear]

DONTOR, on 17 March 2015 - 07:47 AM, said:

Yes but you get the option of a standard engine, and dont have to die from a ST loss. Thats your choice. If I could standard engine my DW after these changes than I would.

IS quirks were implemented to compete with Clan mechs how they are now. They will all have to be toned down to compensate for these changes.

Stll Im quite happy with the Structure boosts that some of the Clan mechs got recently so that will help.

Oh stop that now Dontor!

Yes, for 20-30 kph less and 2/3 the firepower you too can run around useless with both your STs missing. Or at best with what 2-3 Mlasers? With half your mech missing you still outgun most IS STD Engine builds. And oftentime go faster.

Your Timber Wolf misisng a side will still outperform most Orions.

Edited by Illya Arkhipova, 17 March 2015 - 07:51 AM.

[KraftySOT]

No why would it 'go away'.

You lose 2 engine crits, you have movement and heat penalties.

Period. I dont like how PGI is doing thier own arbitrary numbers, but the fact that it should happen, is unquestionable. Its the rules.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Yep, just remove Speed Tweak from the TBR and SCR. Replace it with Accel unlock or something.

Those two mechs being too fast is the problem, and they shouldnt be that fast anyway

[KraftySOT]

And no one would put a standard engine in a Direwolf even if they had the choice.

Do you really want 13 less tons of space?

[Kain Demos]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 March 2015 - 07:46 AM, said:

Why do all the Whiners seem to be from Clan Wolf?

OK, to be fair, there are a few Smoking Jags that QQ quite a bit too. But Most self respecting Bears and Falcons don't seem to have an issue..........

Performance Anxiety, perhaps?

Port Moseby is comfy.

[Felicitatem Parco]

You can keep your no-penalty side torso loss if the inner Sphere can have Light Fusion engines... How about that?

[Bishop Steiner]

Kain Thul, on 17 March 2015 - 07:52 AM, said:

Port Moseby is comfy.

Don't eat all my cheese puffs. I ever get decent connectivity, you'll be back in your kennels, shortly. Doubly so if Wolf Whiner Galaxy is defending.

Prosperity Park, on 17 March 2015 - 07:54 AM, said:

You can keep your no-penalty side torso loss if the inner Sphere can have Light Fusion engines... How about that?

Nope.

Plus LFEs should have the same penalties.

[CyclonerM]

Rhaythe, on 17 March 2015 - 07:41 AM, said:

It needs some kind of balancing component. Clans and IS around 3050 were *never* meant to be even in lore. So for a multiplayer game, some kind of mechanic is needed, and this is a very good start.

A good start? That means that uberquirks, near-instantaneous and very cool lasers, one shot ballistics, clustered LRMs, changeable engine, no hardwired items, are not even a start for balance? How far would you go then?

@Bishop: trust me, i have never seen nearly as much whine from Clan Wolf than i have seen from any IS faction in all these months...

It seems like some people will not stop until the Clan 'Mechs are nerfed into the ground aside from 3 or 4 slightly better numbers .. And even that would not be always true.

KraftySOT, on 17 March 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

No why would it 'go away'.

You lose 2 engine crits, you have movement and heat penalties.

Period. I dont like how PGI is doing thier own arbitrary numbers, but the fact that it should happen, is unquestionable. Its the rules.

True. If you advocate fully respect of the BT rules, then where are engine critical hits? And why double armor? And IS infinite customization without risks or expenses?

It is good to appeal to the rules, until people start applying the correct rules only to Clan 'Mechs.. How far does everyone want to go?

AntiCitizenJuan, on 17 March 2015 - 07:52 AM, said:

Yep, just remove Speed Tweak from the TBR and SCR. Replace it with Accel unlock or something.

Those two mechs being too fast is the problem, and they shouldnt be that fast anyway

Neither should all the IS 'Mechs with speed tweak.

Edited by CyclonerM, 17 March 2015 - 07:58 AM.

[Lily from animove]

GeneralArmchair, on 17 March 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

Hmm, speed reduction still sounds a hell of a lot better than death. I think you're still getting a great deal.

No, not if you could have brought an STD engine. So except from lights this is juts a rather no brain reply because usually IS palyers put XL's only in Xl friendly mechs, and laods of clanners are by nature not Xl friendly due to their design. And there is no way to make your clanmech be STD durable.

Illya Arkhipova, on 17 March 2015 - 07:50 AM, said:

Oh stop that now Dontor!

Yes, for 20-30 kph less and 2/3 the firepower you too can run around useless with both your STs missing. Or at best with what 2-3 Mlasers? With half your mech missing you still outgun most IS STD Engine builds. And oftentime go faster.

Your Timber Wolf misisng a side will still outperform most Orions.

bad way to argue, because is one example of many. how about DWF? it will be an amazing turret or the warhawk which is a walkign ST at all. Would this kind of emch design exist in the IS, no sane pilot would ever put an XL in thee, not even if they had said nerfs to come.

KraftySOT, on 17 March 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

No why would it 'go away'.

You lose 2 engine crits, you have movement and heat penalties.

Period. I dont like how PGI is doing thier own arbitrary numbers, but the fact that it should happen, is unquestionable. Its the rules.

ohh and the rules say something else about weapon damage and heat. Why do rules suddenly count when they cater your opinion, but not count when someone else is using them?

if your poeple logic in arguing is the same with what you judge those changes incoming, no wonder why PGI receives laods of weird feedback and fails properly balancing stuff.
The rules are over baord a long time ago. and Rules will not help to achive some proper balance.

KraftySOT, on 17 March 2015 - 07:52 AM, said:

And no one would put a standard engine in a Direwolf even if they had the choice.

Do you really want 13 less tons of space?

yes, because a CLPL CT and CMPL Head zombie is totally worth this for people who know how to spread the damage to lose both ST's and a CT in total health.

Prosperity Park, on 17 March 2015 - 07:54 AM, said:

You can keep your no-penalty side torso loss if the inner Sphere can have Light Fusion engines... How about that?

also fine, at least less of a mess wiht the interclan balance.

Edited by Lily from animove, 17 March 2015 - 08:06 AM.