264 replies to this topic

[BARBAR0SSA]

Illya Arkhipova, on 17 March 2015 - 07:50 AM, said:

Oh stop that now Dontor!

Yes, for 20-30 kph less and 2/3 the firepower you too can run around useless with both your STs missing. Or at best with what 2-3 Mlasers? With half your mech missing you still outgun most IS STD Engine builds. And oftentime go faster.

Your Timber Wolf misisng a side will still outperform most Orions.

Actually on defense...I'd take this, free up some room on side torsos for better PPFLD weapon setups on a select few mechs(Dual Gauss like a JM pretty much)...and I could like put something in the OTHER torso of the warhawk so it wasn't all stuck in 1 spot!!!

There would for sure be some dire statues though.

Edited by shad0w4life, 17 March 2015 - 07:58 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Stoned Prophet, on 17 March 2015 - 07:41 AM, said:

Nah, its a good idea. Makes sense too. I wont have any problems adjusting.

All the Clan Whinygirls "warriors" who cry about it? Their tears are delicious and go well with cookies.


ONLY CLANNERS MAY POST ON THIS TOPIC FREEBIRTH! Nah im just kiddin' lol

Thank goodness I'm not one of those Whinygirls then! PGI should take on the extra heat like Damaged shielding is supposed to inflict. Then things would be proper.

[Rhaythe]

CyclonerM, on 17 March 2015 - 07:56 AM, said:

A good start? That means that uberquirks, near-instantaneous and very cool lasers, one shot ballistics, clustered LRMs, changeable engine, no hardwired items, are not even a start for balance? Where would you go then?

So instead of attacking my point, you attack minor verbiage. Sigh. Wolves.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

CyclonerM, on 17 March 2015 - 07:56 AM, said:

Neither should all the IS 'Mechs with speed tweak.

The IS mechs dont have the firepower of Timberwolves and Stormcrows without packing IS XL's
and dont have the durability unless they use STDs, which gimps firepower.

So no.

These 2 mechs are the source of a stupid amount of balance issues, so them losing 10kph isnt going to kill them

Nerf 2 Overpowered mechs or nerf all Clan mechs. HMMMMM....

Edited by AntiCitizenJuan, 17 March 2015 - 08:03 AM.

[Macksheen]

While I don't have much of a problem with it in general, it seems a bit harsh. I wouldn't mind if they walked back a few of the weapon updates at the same time.

[Lucian Nostra]

I can understand the heat as that is from TT, engine crits cause you to generate 5 extra heat per hit.. but the movement drop? That's just something PGI is making up

The result of a ST blow out should be that your mech generates an extra 1 heat per second (Cooling is done on a 10 second basis, 2 engine crits is 10 heat per turn which is 10 seconds)

I don't agree with the movement loss, it won't affect DWFs, WHKs or TWFs all that much but will punish the already punished clan lights, take a toll on the Nova and Shadow Cat, ruin the Ferret which already sucks and further hamper the Gargoyle.

[Summon3r]

yea keep nerfing clan mechs into the ground, add insulting 1-2% quirks to arguably the worst mechs in the game then justify it by saying dont worry they stack.... would love to see every clan unit just switch to IS seeing as how the IS actually have the OMNI's

[WarHippy]

Eh, I don't know. It seems to me if they are going to do this they need to consider some quality of life adjustments for Clan mechs to go along with this change. Maybe unlock Endo Steel/FF? Maybe allow for some changes to engines/engine heatsinks, or reverse the heat increase they did to ERMLAS awhile back? In all honest I would much rather see them overhaul the skill trees allowing for the mechs in need of major help to be improved and mechs not in need of help to at least specialize in a desired role. For me having played IS mechs for months prior to this weekend made me realize that while there are a few really good mechs for Clans pretty much all of them feel awkward and inefficient in comparison to fully quirked out IS mechs. The idea of giving them one more thing that makes them feel awkward seems like overkill to me without some sort of adjustment somewhere else.

[CyclonerM]

Rhaythe, on 17 March 2015 - 07:59 AM, said:

So instead of attacking my point, you attack minor verbiage. Sigh. Wolves.

Maybe you did not really think that way, but my impression was that you thought that so far almost or none balancing act was taken.. Wording makes meaning, i am not a native english speaker, so i might be wrong, but that was the sense i got from your statement. I hope you correct me

Anyway, you are right, but others have already attacked yours and other similar points with all the math that i am not going to do again

AntiCitizenJuan, on 17 March 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

The IS mechs dont have the firepower of Timberwolves and Stormcrows without packing IS XL's
and dont have the durability unless they use STDs, which gimps firepower.

So no.

These 2 mechs are the source of a stupid amount of balance issues, so them losing 10kph isnt going to kill them

Exactly. If you admit that only 2 'Mechs are creating balance issues, then you can just give negative quirks to their pods, or something like that, instead of an unnecessary big "fix" that hampers the less effective design more than impacting the best performing ones (you admit it as well).

WarHippy, on 17 March 2015 - 08:06 AM, said:

or reverse the heat increase they did to ERMLAS awhile back?

This could be a good start .

Edited by CyclonerM, 17 March 2015 - 08:08 AM.

[Tezcatli]

Speed reduction or death? Hmmmm. Seems like a no brainer to me.

[AlexEss]

I think they should just loose a massive amount of heat dissipation

35% per side perhaps... Along with 3 DHS worth of heat cap per side...

That would make life a lot less fun...

But then again i run IS exclusively so i honestly don´t care what kind of "nerf" they put on clan mechs... Not my problem as the situation can only get better.

[ThirtyOughtSix]

Lily from animove, on 17 March 2015 - 07:31 AM, said:

Please, It's a bad idea when it is about speed reduction.

Clanners can not change their engines, they have not the standard variant available.


And the very most important why to not do this:

Its an unbalanced effect on the clanmechs.
Clanmechs are bound to their Engines sizes, this nerf hits the SCR, the NVA the IFR completely differently hard.
And so this nerf does distribute totally differently amongst the clanmechs causing more chaos in the balance than it actually does fix, especially in the interclan balance.
You can not increase engine size to adjust the slower clanmechs to proper speed after ST death. and mechs like the gargoyle that sacrifice a unhealthy amount of weight into an oversized engine will just have adressed pointless tonnage into this speed. Clans can also not switch to a standard engine.

Clans get quirks now, and then putting such an idea on the table as well will just mess up balance totally after some have received quirks and some not.

If anything, then buff the IS XL's to be not a ST death. They still consume 2 more slots in eahc sidetorso. That would probably be way better, it would also increase the low ttk by letting some is mechs survive a bit longer. And scrubs using an XL engine in an XL unsuited shaped mech will have a bit less harder time. Which also helps to equal out the lesser experienced IS newbie pilots skillgap.

Your marbles are out of order. IMO, the one reason clan/IS is so imbalanced is due to the clan XL engine. It is the single reason clan mechs are so hard to take down. It's like ALL clans are running standard engines without any of the weight drawbacks but all the health benefits. I agree a speed reduction is a question idea, however, it would certainly make things better balanced. Maybe start with 10% cooling, 10% speed. But it's got to be something....anything.

[MeiSooHaityu]

That's what happens when you introduce a mechanic too powerful and try to adjust it down, people rebel. They don't want you taking away their advantage. Some even result to name calling.

I will say this. I think the proposed nerf is a percentage of top speed. I do feel this is a bit unfair to light mechs. Some light mechd should have a counteracting quirk for this effect. Its one thing to cut the speed of a Stormcrow, but another thing to cut the speed of an Adder.

[orcrist86]

St speed loss is more lore friendly. I'll take it.

[Joseph Mallan]

Tezcatli, on 17 March 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

Speed reduction or death? Hmmmm. Seems like a no brainer to me.

+5 Heat for one Shielding hit +10 for two... How bloody hard is that to do! It is the affect of engine hits in this universe!

Unity! It's not that hard to apply! See standing in lava or environmental heat penalties fro crying out loud!

[Voivode]

I have a large stable of mechs including both Clan and IS. When I run my IS mechs, I don't really feel jealous of any of the Clan equipment, it all comes with its upside and downside compared to IS tech.

The exception to that? Clan XL engines. Oh man I wish I could slap one of those in so many of my IS mechs. Those engines are hands down the best piece of equipment Clans get.

[KraftySOT]

CyclonerM, on 17 March 2015 - 07:56 AM, said:

True. If you advocate fully respect of the BT rules, then where are engine critical hits? And why double armor? And IS infinite customization without risks or expenses?

So many things.

[Joseph Mallan]

orcrist86, on 17 March 2015 - 08:15 AM, said:

St speed loss is more lore friendly. I'll take it.

That was for having 5 points of excess heat. A Thunder Hawk could fire its 3 Gauss, Run and have 1 engine hit and be heat neutral. NO movement penalties.

[Mcgral18]

So, when this comes in, can my Mist Lynx get an isXL engine with the limitations removed?

Drop the BAP, drop one JJ, then crank everything into engine.

It can mount a 250 XL, which means 10 TrueDubs. It also means 162 Kph without Speed Tweak.

That's with 4 tons of pod space left. 177 Kph with 4 cSPLs sounds pretty glorious, if you ask me. 5 JJs means it only flies slightly worse.



That is how gimped Clam lights are. I'd gladly take the "inferior" isXL if it meant I could use that gundam and not the hardlocked 175.

Edited by Mcgral18, 17 March 2015 - 08:25 AM.

[Lily from animove]

also what many forget IS mechs can free tonnage by adding ES/FF, which the clans not having stock can not. So this way a mech can go for a STD easilier with less weight penalty.

The non-problematic clanners are the ones with ES/FF and XL, but the others are not, but those others get hit massively. also the STD engine makes you NEVER lose cooling this is also not what XL clanners provide. So there is more benefit on a TD engine that just being a non ST mech, its also keeping full internal DHS cooling when a single torso blows off.

AntiCitizenJuan, on 17 March 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

The IS mechs dont have the firepower of Timberwolves and Stormcrows without packing IS XL's
and dont have the durability unless they use STDs, which gimps firepower.

So no.

These 2 mechs are the source of a stupid amount of balance issues, so them losing 10kph isn't going to kill them

Nerf 2 Overpowered mechs or nerf all Clan mechs. HMMMMM....

yes thats the thing my post is about THEM losing those 10kph is nto going to be an issue, but this penalty is also for the other mechs and some already worst of all mechs are clanmechs, and they do get this penalty as well. And this will cause just (and again) bad things to bad mechs. it is not going to achieve balance, its just breaking more balance again.

but just an example: the Nova XL weights 12,5t. vs a 18t standard engine.

would a Nova be able to fully customize itself, many would go for either a higher XL, because speed = life, or they would go for a STD XL, because thats only 5.5 tons difference, which with IS construction ruls means: you could put in ES for another 2.5t. 3tons difference left. That you can by throwing off 2 lasers and a single DHS.

such a config will amke the mech have a few very nice features:

survive the single torso loss without heat penalty, and without speed penalty. Further even if losing 2 ST's you are still very capale to run around for either capping or distracting opponents. That is still a good chance of usage. Yet the giant CT will most likely prevent this form happeing very long. but there are BIG benefits of STD engines over non STD engines.

but again I see many players hav not te ability to actually truly differ the entire pros and cons of an XL, except:
ST with IS XL = dead, and Clan XL =/= dead.

Tezcatli, on 17 March 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

Speed reduction or death? Hmmmm. Seems like a no brainer to me.

Wow much dept in mech analysis some have -.-

A big STD engine is a 100% safe way to store many DHS for 0 additional crits consumed and they stay until death of the mech. Clanners do not have the opportunatey to use this design.

Summon3r, on 17 March 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

yea keep nerfing clan mechs into the ground, add insulting 1-2% quirks to arguably the worst mechs in the game then justify it by saying dont worry they stack.... would love to see every clan unit just switch to IS seeing as how the IS actually have the OMNI's

yeah this is going to be the day the MWO world burns when the clan pilots flip back to IS mechs owning the world with pilot skill + better mechs that the IS now has xD

Edited by Lily from animove, 17 March 2015 - 08:29 AM.