56 replies to this topic

[WarHippy]

Sigh... I was really hoping that the Clan quirks would be interesting if not good in particular for the ones in desperate need of attention, but these changes(and only to a few of the ones in need at that) are so lackluster it is almost insulting.

[Senor Cataclysmo]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 March 2015 - 10:29 AM, said:

I appreciate that. I see too much black and white reasoning, and very few shades of grey, in most forum posts and arguments.
(Of course, i see that IRL too, as a pro-gun hunter/shooting nut who also is totally for background checks...because sadly some people do not have any business owning guns, be it through criminal past (sorry, don't care if you "reform", guns are not a god given right, and if you committed violent crime, you gave up the privilege) or mental health. Yet to either side of the debate, you are a sell out to say that, lol)

I dont have anything to add on the mech debate, but I just want to say, its so nice to see a pro-gun person who is actually reasonable and rational in their arguments

[DasaDevil]

I'd rather have the Summoner's mobility back, personally. I was fine with 4meds and a gauss rifle in that mech, because it tanked and rolled damage like a champion.

[CrushLibs]

Ok using the PUMA as an example.

Two main problems with the puma is heat and lack of speed.

instead of giving it useless quirks like reducing the cycle cool down time 2.5% which will just cause the mech to build heat faster why not just do a simple -10% overall heat generation?

The DWF pgi added 15% heat generation and increased the heat on the lasers and increased the firing times thus forcing the DWF into the role of UAC or guass. This overall thinking process is forcing the clans into meta builds or turning mechs into useless POS like what happened to the NOVA.

PGI please please start using common sense and quirk or nerf with some forethought.

[kapusta11]

"Noo my pet mech did not receive the love it rightfully deserved!!1"

[Widowmaker1981]

kapusta11, on 17 March 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

"Noo my pet mech did not receive the love it rightfully deserved!!1"

More like

"Damn, they did nothing to make me consider those mechs above trash tier, so i will continue to never, ever use them." Mission accomplished?

[Bishop Steiner]

Widowmaker1981, on 17 March 2015 - 10:46 AM, said:

i want to prefer clans. I prefer the aesthetics of their mechs, which is all that matters to me since im really not a roleplayer... but i find that i just do much, much better in IS mechs than i do in clan ones. Its probably partly playstyle - but i personally cannot justify the opinion that clans mechs are so superior to IS ones that a lot of people have, my experiences just dont bear it out.

And i wasnt referring to the backlash from you, you seem mostly sensible tbh.

I think some of it IS playstyle, as mathematically, Clans have better engines, are tougher, and better laservomit and SRMs/streaks. IS does rock ballistics and LRMs, which is probably why I prefer IS, plus I like the grungy aesthetic of the IS mechs. (except of course my beloved Summoner)

DasaDevil, on 17 March 2015 - 10:54 AM, said:

I'd rather have the Summoner's mobility back, personally. I was fine with 4meds and a gauss rifle in that mech, because it tanked and rolled damage like a champion.

while I am not happy with the results, ATM, I welcome anything that might someday steer the mech past 1 single build.

Just a shame this ain't it, lol.

Senor Cataclysmo, on 17 March 2015 - 10:53 AM, said:

I dont have anything to add on the mech debate, but I just want to say, its so nice to see a pro-gun person who is actually reasonable and rational in their arguments

Appreciated.

kapusta11, on 17 March 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

"Noo my pet mech did not receive the love it rightfully deserved!!1"

oh look another kapusta post that adds nothing and totally misses or ignores the actual point. Color me shocked.

[Widowmaker1981]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 March 2015 - 11:22 AM, said:

I think some of it IS playstyle, as mathematically, Clans have better engines, are tougher, and better laservomit and SRMs/streaks. IS does rock ballistics and LRMs, which is probably why I prefer IS, plus I like the grungy aesthetic of the IS mechs. (except of course my beloved Summoner)

Well, again it doesnt bear out for me, as easily my most successful IS mechs are laser vomit Banshees and Battlemasters - there is just nothing that can match that ability to peek, with IS pulse lasers the damage is done and the target is gone before you even really see it half the time. Not to mention the complete lack of any real 'feeling' of being damaged on the targets part, which means they often dont react until betty says 'Center Torso, critical damage' - at which point they panic, having been fresh a couple seconds ago. People under ballistic or missile fire always react - which is good and bad of course, sometimes you want them to stop shooting and run away.

I also dispute that clan mechs are tougher, since a lot of good IS mechs run very well with STDs (Thunderbolts/Battlemasters/Stalkers for example). Sometimes they are faster and more fragile, sometimes they are tougher and slower..depends on the IS. I never really feel more vulnerable then when im driving a dire wolf tbh.

I guess i just rate heat efficiency and precision higher than range, since terrain is such a natural counter to range (also why i dont like LRMs anymore i guess...)

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 17 March 2015 - 11:37 AM.

[Navid A1]

kapusta11, on 17 March 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

"Noo my pet mech did not receive the love it rightfully deserved!!1"

Not everyone thinks like you.

Take your time and read the forums. You'll see that these are free feedback pgi is ignoring.

[Ano]

I can totally see WHY these clan quirks are a bit underwhelming, though.

While there are any number of IS mechs with really quite significant quirks which have NOT become all-powerful meta heroes, there are a few that, thanks to quirks, became very powerful indeed (perhaps disproportionately so).

It looks to me like, more than anything, PGI want to avoid accentally creating another monster that they'll have to "nerf", especially given some of the sensitivites around clan vs. IS balance. If that's the case, then we may well see further increases to these mech's quirks in the next patch or a hotfix -- and if that happens, then I think that'll be an excellent omen for measured adjustments to balance in future.

In general, I think it'd be better for balance if changes were made incrementally but rapidly i.e. add a 5% heat reduction, look at the stats for a couple of weeks, increase to 10%, look at the stats, etc etc.

BUT

the difficulty there is that when a mech is percieved to be underpowered, a 5% buff to one attribute or another may not entice enough players to use the mech to get decent stats about its relative performance.

Time will tell.

Edited by Ano, 17 March 2015 - 05:20 PM.

[Kain Demos]

CrushLibs, on 17 March 2015 - 11:01 AM, said:

Ok using the PUMA as an example.

Two main problems with the puma is heat and lack of speed.

instead of giving it useless quirks like reducing the cycle cool down time 2.5% which will just cause the mech to build heat faster why not just do a simple -10% overall heat generation?

The DWF pgi added 15% heat generation and increased the heat on the lasers and increased the firing times thus forcing the DWF into the role of UAC or guass. This overall thinking process is forcing the clans into meta builds or turning mechs into useless POS like what happened to the NOVA.

PGI please please start using common sense and quirk or nerf with some forethought.

That -15% Energy Cooldown you get from using both DWF-PRIME arms does not add heat it means the "cooldown time" of the weapon is 15% slower. It actually makes you run cooler.

[Red1769]

Not really much to add...besides an agreed. Out of the ones listed, I only own the Adder. I didn't look at the rest of them, just the prime on it at that. Cooldown quirk is not even the right buff to it, a heat gen. buff is what it needs, but it also doesn't need to be a big one. Course ppcs in general are kinda bad unless they're on quirked mechs, but lets not get into that. Idk about the Summoner (not a fan of fixed jjs), so I can't say anything beyond a jump jet quirk should also be warranted. *looks at the poor Highlander and it's 5% additional speed*

Looks like the poor thing stays gathering dust...while I take my Misery and Warhawk A and B out for spins...

[Bishop Steiner]

Red1769, on 17 March 2015 - 05:38 PM, said:

Not really much to add...besides an agreed. Out of the ones listed, I only own the Adder. I didn't look at the rest of them, just the prime on it at that. Cooldown quirk is not even the right buff to it, a heat gen. buff is what it needs, but it also doesn't need to be a big one. Course ppcs in general are kinda bad unless they're on quirked mechs, but lets not get into that. Idk about the Summoner (not a fan of fixed jjs), so I can't say anything beyond a jump jet quirk should also be warranted. *looks at the poor Highlander and it's 5% additional speed*

Looks like the poor thing stays gathering dust...while I take my Misery and Warhawk A and B out for spins...

Yeah. I get taking it slow and cautious, but right now, it looks like someone left the car in park.

[DivideByZer0]

Kind of a strange day in the mechwarrior universe when IS outdoes clan on energy weapons...

[Ultimax]

DasaDevil, on 17 March 2015 - 10:54 AM, said:

I'd rather have the Summoner's mobility back, personally. I was fine with 4meds and a gauss rifle in that mech, because it tanked and rolled damage like a champion.

Hell, for the most part I want it's old quirks back.

+10% Energy CD and +10% ballistic CD on one build was a possibility, that's two free T5 module slots and was very useful without even remotely being problematic.

I like some of the stuff they did, like trying to differentiate the CTs a bit.


Other stuff is a mess.

Machine Gun Range quirks? Really? This is a pointless amount to a pointless boost if it doesn't come with a supporting -machine gun spread quirk. Even then it's kind of a joke.

How about MG RoF increase on the order of +50% or even +100%? This is a 70T mech we are talking about, dedicating two of it's few hardpoints to a small set of 2 machine guns.


Some of the other stuff is on the right track, but the numbers are way off.

Things like +missile velocity, -spread and +CD are all the types of quirks the Summoner needs but it needs higher numbers for sure.


How amazing would it be to get -20% LB-X spread? Now the Summoner packs a more dangerous LB-X weapon of every kind, dedicating most of it's tonnage to do so.




I don't even want to talk about the Badder.

Mine is still waiting for the day it gets real quirks.

[Serpieri]

Clan Quirks where? Having trouble seeing them with my magnifying glass.

[Mike Forst]

Hey. I just wanted to let everyone in this thread know that I am collecting feedback here as well. I just wanted to make sure you know that you're not being left out. If would be better if you kept it to the main quirks thread though so it's easier for me to find all the feedback though.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mike Forst, on 18 March 2015 - 08:58 PM, said:

Hey. I just wanted to let everyone in this thread know that I am collecting feedback here as well. I just wanted to make sure you know that you're not being left out. If would be better if you kept it to the main quirks thread though so it's easier for me to find all the feedback though.

Hey Mike, thanks for the heads up. Always good to know when you guys are seeing stuff. Like I said, not trying to blast you guys, just that after waiting 8 -9 months for the Summoner, Adder, etc to be relevant, would have liked to seen a little more aggressive first step. Not talking DRG-1N, but like the OP says.

Anyhow, will look to the main quirks thread, too.

[DjPush]

nerds

[Bishop Steiner]

Ultimatum X, on 18 March 2015 - 08:54 PM, said:

Hell, for the most part I want it's old quirks back.

+10% Energy CD and +10% ballistic CD on one build was a possibility, that's two free T5 module slots and was very useful without even remotely being problematic.

I like some of the stuff they did, like trying to differentiate the CTs a bit.


Other stuff is a mess.

Machine Gun Range quirks? Really? This is a pointless amount to a pointless boost if it doesn't come with a supporting -machine gun spread quirk. Even then it's kind of a joke.

How about MG RoF increase on the order of +50% or even +100%? This is a 70T mech we are talking about, dedicating two of it's few hardpoints to a small set of 2 machine guns.


Some of the other stuff is on the right track, but the numbers are way off.

Things like +missile velocity, -spread and +CD are all the types of quirks the Summoner needs but it needs higher numbers for sure.


How amazing would it be to get -20% LB-X spread? Now the Summoner packs a more dangerous LB-X weapon of every kind, dedicating most of it's tonnage to do so.




I don't even want to talk about the Badder.

Mine is still waiting for the day it gets real quirks.

I'd be happy to have zero missile quirks on the Prime, since it's a tertiary weapons system. Ditto the Nacr on the Bravo or MGs on the Delta.

Only primary weapon systems really should be quirked in the first darn place. Give the Prime a faster, tighter LB-X, and a cooler ERPPC, and it's mobility, and you have a potentially tough mobile infighter.

Heck, due to tonnage, you either need to reduce or remove the missiles to have enough ammo to justify the LB-X in the first place. And the missiles are usually used either to soften things on the way in (LRMs) or as some added oomph in a tight fight, with SRMs.