Pre quirk update i was still putting up consistant 500+ damage games in an ac20 srm ll build. Its still a beast if played right.
This is the 'nerfed' Highlander before all mechs got quirks.
(Once it gets to the snow, skip to after 6 minutes for the Forest Colony fight. Front line, XL 330 engine, leading the charge and attacks against enemies while giving out commands to the entire team).
Skip to after 5 minutes unless you want to hear us poke lots of fun at the new UI 2.0.
Look up Koniving Heavy Metal and you'll find lots and lots more. Same build for over two years and its still incredible.
HGN has big CT, with slow torso twist, difficult to protect. Even when it was meta, it required piloting skill to make it last.
Most of it's old sturdiness came from the ability to tank with legs, while jumping in a brawl and by jump-turning. Shadowhawks and Victors have the same problem, that's why they dont feel durable as before JJ nerfs.
HGN has big CT, with slow torso twist, difficult to protect. Even when it was meta, it required piloting skill to make it last.
Most of it's old sturdiness came from the ability to tank with legs, while jumping in a brawl and by jump-turning. Shadowhawks and Victors have the same problem, that's why they dont feel durable as before JJ nerfs.
On the vids I barely ever jumped and never jump-turned (as we had hover jets by then).
It does, however, constantly move. DPS builds, extremely heat efficient. The big thing is "Never stop moving," and "Never shut down."
The mech attacks nonstop, relentlessly, always advancing, always moving, never overheating. That's the key. You stop you're dead. Quite simply this mech will keep you shaking with its single AC/2, messing with your accuracy. The Shotgun and streaks will find weak spots in your armor and the medium lasers will take it out (shotgun helps a lot too at close range). Works very well on all maps, very heat efficient, good DPS pre-quirks and it's far better at it now than then.
Don't torso twist. Pointless. Moving reduces damage far better than twisting. If you twist you're NOT shooting.
Seriously though, watch those vids. No jump brawling. Hover jets. Constant 100% face time.
On the vids I barely ever jumped and never jump-turned (as we had hover jets by then).
i get what your saying Koni, but you are jsut talking about the heavy metal yea? so is this in a way pgi promoting P2W? i havent played my HGN chassis in forever but i think the point stands the HGN's should be able to do a better job of jumping then they do of hovering? personally i have no issue with putting RL money into MWO but people like me are getting lesser in this game.
It does, however, constantly move. DPS builds, extremely heat efficient. The big thing is "Never stop moving," and "Never shut down."
The mech attacks nonstop, relentlessly, always advancing, always moving, never overheating. That's the key. You stop you're dead. Quite simply this mech will keep you shaking with its single AC/2, messing with your accuracy. The Shotgun and streaks will find weak spots in your armor and the medium lasers will take it out (shotgun helps a lot too at close range). Works very well on all maps, very heat efficient, good DPS pre-quirks and it's far better at it now than then.
Don't torso twist. Pointless. Moving reduces damage far better than twisting. If you twist you're NOT shooting.
Seriously though, watch those vids. No jump brawling. Hover jets. Constant 100% face time.
Dude, I'm pretty sure the bottom vid in the desert is pre-hover jets anyway, you don't even have the mech details button yet. Jump jets still rocked sox when that got added, and the meta HGN-733C was still very good, albeit slightly outclassed by the DS due to mobility. Different game right now... Also noticed your jump jets are not heating up your mech, so this was definitely pre-hothoverjets. This also seems like it is pre-AC2 RoF nerf but I could be wrong there.
I'm sorry, it was a good video and you played well, but this does not serve to address the state of the Highlander now. And I did see a jump turn in there
I also can't help but notice that your mech did not go below 90%, because no one shot at you... The second video you took some more fire for sure, but UI 1.5 was a long time ago. HGN was still almost meta at that point.
i get what your saying Koni, but you are jsut talking about the heavy metal yea? so is this in a way pgi promoting P2W? i havent played my HGN chassis in forever but i think the point stands the HGN's should be able to do a better job of jumping then they do of hovering? personally i have no issue with putting RL money into MWO but people like me are getting lesser in this game.
PS love the build
Every Highlander except the 733c -- I don't own one yet and I tend to avoid meta mechs.
My 733P uses a 325 standard engine with 4 ML and streaks. Works on a similar premise and relies on side torsos a bit more. It's not as effective because IS ballistics are overpowered (PP FLD for the win). Like my HM design, it relies heavily on getting right in your face but isn't capable of much damage before getting there, so instead it needs someone else to draw attention. Since I don't like to hang out near the front lines (everyone is shooting the blob, who pays attention to the guy creeping up behind you?), it works well for me. Except on Canyon. Canyon makes my life hard because hover jets.
My 733 is an LRM boat with a single ML and an AC/2. Quite effective, though the LRMs are the mainstay weapon if in the middle of a number of other mechs it can hold ground very well. Knowing someone on the other team, I knew his team had at least a 4 man premade to my being alone (because he flat out told me when I asked), so I absolutely refused to fight on the J11 hill of Alpine. Instead I told everyone I knew the people on the other side, it'd be suicide to fight on that hill. "Lets change things up." I gave everyone a defensible position to the far West that they couldn't shoot at from there, with two layers of large taller-than-Atlas hills that are difficult to climb, where the main access is North and South. We dug into our foxhole, I had Alpha guard North, Bravo guard South, and Charlie reinforce where possible (at the time ELO put premades in Alpha to Bravo, and started players in order of ELO so the Charlie lance had the lowest ELOs in terms of the lance itself; keep in mind premades combined into one ELO score so some Charlie players can be much more skilled than individuals in Alpha or Bravo).
Anyway... Long story short it was a drawn out 14 minute battle in which we lost two guys to their 12. By the end of it I had no ammo left, and one of the two guys we lost was the only one who didn't go along the plan (and the other guy died protecting me while I was typing out instructions). The 733 makes a great command unit. Wolfmech (the person I knew on the other side) told me it was the hardest fight he had ever seen at the time, that he could swear he was fighting a 12 man. At the end of the fight, the 733 was able to lead the charge with nothing left but an ML and an AC/2 and make the second-to-last kill.
The 732 has an LRM 15, 2 streaks, an LBX and 3 ML. It's got some heat problems and it's the eh... my "meh" thing. Heat problems are seriously what kills this thing.
I'm sorry, it was a good video and you played well, but this does not serve to address the state of the Highlander now. And I did see a jump turn in there
Fair enough on the jump turn (I mean c'mon, swarmed by lights! Though this thing does have 30 rear armor for the CT), and it is during later ghost heat AC/2s which was when they started the first ROF reductions . It is fully elited, however, which includes a 5% increase in firing rates. The ballistic quirks on the Highlanders combined with the elites make it shoot faster now than it does there (which I don't like to be honest, makes it easier to use up the ammo).
As mentioned there are newer vids, including some 12 man competition matches (about the only time I take out the LBX for an AC/10). The mech was originally designed to quickly charge at and take out 6 PPC Stalkers after they had been found (by then they're quite hot) and rush 'em. Super effective in that regard. Still is. Though not against Dire Wolves with ballistics as the very tactic my Highlanders rely on is used against me (throwing off aim with ballistic shake) and they can afford total facetime where I can't against that kind of firepower.
It is pre hot hoverjets (I mean UI 2.0 just came out for a few weeks, so yeah). But it is still heavy in the hoverjets (hence no poptarts around). Which was another thing the HM and 733P builds were great against, poptarts. Charge 'em, blast 'em. Hammer 'em in the air with the AC/2.
Lately my biggest problem with Highlanders is no one will follow one these days. And that really hurts the performance of a DPS design. Like seriously hurts it. Too many people afraid to come out because ER PPC boats and Gauss Rifles.
At the time it twisted like an Atlas. Currently, it twists faster than the Banshee (faster than the Atlas) but slower than the Battlemaster. So they track pretty well. Between what 85 and 95 tonners do, which is where it should be as a 90 tonner.
Summon3r, on 22 March 2015 - 08:45 AM, said:
the HGN's should be able to do a better job of jumping then they do of hovering? personally i have no issue with putting RL money into MWO but people like me are getting lesser in this game.
They definitely should do more than hovering.
How else will "death from above" be feasible?
One of the issues with jumpjets is they have to fight the game's gravity which is between 2.8 and 3.2x Earth's. Ever wonder why you fall so fast or how unnatural it seems to go from +18m/s to -32m/s in less than a second when the going rate of acceleration toward the surface should be 9.8m/s (or as many of these planets claim, less than 9.8m/s)?
Yeah. Poptarting wouldn't be an issue if the gravity wasn't up so high. You'd have that 'pausing' feeling of inertia leaving you and new inertia taking over, more than enough time to get shot out of the sky. And thus, no more issue of hoverjets since we could have functional ones. But... "It felt weird to fall so slowly." Well yeah, it feels weird because you're in a machine that's taller than two semi trucks with trailers are long, falling a distance that would take nearly 20 minutes to walk!
Sigh. So many issues with the design of this game. But seriously though Highlanders are quite viable (their CTs also shrunk).
The one thing that DOES suck about them is the head counts almost entirely as CT. Which means LRM magnet. I'm sure you can hear my reaction to LRMs in the first video. In the face of LRMs you either get there right away or you're screwed. The body is too thick to hide behind most eye-level cover, you'll get hit anyway.
Fair enough on the jump turn (I mean c'mon, swarmed by lights! Though this thing does have 30 rear armor for the CT), and it is during later ghost heat AC/2s which was when they started the first ROF reductions . It is fully elited, however, which includes a 5% increase in firing rates. The ballistic quirks on the Highlanders combined with the elites make it shoot faster now than it does there (which I don't like to be honest, makes it easier to use up the ammo).
As mentioned there are newer vids, including some 12 man competition matches (about the only time I take out the LBX for an AC/10). The mech was originally designed to quickly charge at and take out 6 PPC Stalkers after they had been found (by then they're quite hot) and rush 'em. Super effective in that regard. Still is. Though not against Dire Wolves with ballistics as the very tactic my Highlanders rely on is used against me (throwing off aim with ballistic shake) and they can afford total facetime where I can't against that kind of firepower.
It is pre hot hoverjets (I mean UI 2.0 just came out for a few weeks, so yeah). But it is still heavy in the hoverjets (hence no poptarts around). Which was another thing the HM and 733P builds were great against, poptarts. Charge 'em, blast 'em. Hammer 'em in the air with the AC/2.
Lately my biggest problem with Highlanders is no one will follow one these days. And that really hurts the performance of a DPS design. Like seriously hurts it. Too many people afraid to come out because ER PPC boats and Gauss Rifles.
Hey, I don't fault you for it. That was one of the things that made jump jets worth and the HGN unique. I think a HGN with 8-10 JJs should still be able to jump-turn effectively, and still be able to shoot weapons when it lands (super hot JJs FTL).
Honestly I haven't played them much since their new quirks, because of all the new mechs, but while the extra tankiness will be nice, JJ's are too hot still!!
Honestly I haven't played them much since their new quirks, because of all the new mechs, but while the extra tankiness will be nice, JJ's are too hot still!!
The issue with JJ heat is this.
In Paul's explanation he said he dug through the rules and that "jumpjets emit 3 heat on the first hex regardless of jumpjet count and 1 heat per additional hex." And he slapped this together as per second. Which kinda makes sense because higher than TT thresholds. Lots of B.S. can be done 'cause of that.
Anyway... He's made it so that we get X heat per jumpjet per second of jumpjet use * jumpjet weight.
Say it's 3 heat really quick. Got 2 jumpjets.
Light mech? 0.5 tons!
3 heat for 2 jumpjets per second at 0.5 tons. 3 * 2 = 6 heat per second /2 = 3 heat per second.
Medium/heavy mech? 1 tons!
3 heat for 2 jumpjets per second at 1 tons. 3*2 =6 * 1 = 6 heat per second.
Highlander? 2 tons!
3 heat for 2 jumpjets per second at 2 tons. 3 * 2 = 6 * 2 = 12 heat per second. Even in a heatsink boat like mine it does hurt ya thermally.
It's supposed to be 3 heat for the 10 seconds (for 30 meters forward, 12 meters high [initial jump is always higher for some reason, especially on Megamek]. 60 meters forward, 18 meters high is 4 heat, 90 meters forward and 24 meters high is supposed to be 5 heat). [It's actually 6, 9, 12 meters high but MWO's mechs can be nearly twice as tall as their BT counterparts]).
Then again, threshold's supposed to be 30 + your cooling power if doing 10 second time slices (with cooling not being an actual threshold but a resistance to filling it). My Heavy Metal's got:
Heat Threshold : 75.12
Cooling Rate : 3.75 heat/sec
Versus the source material value for the same build: (I use it on TT too, with a 360 since 330 isn't available, SRM-2s instead of streaks, and significantly less ammo because totally unnecessary). This breakdown assumes exact same number of heatsinks as the MWO version.
Mech Threshold: 30 (Reach this much heat uncooled at any point in time and it's an automatic shutdown and at least 10 seconds before you can power up again, usually longer.)
Cooling power: 3.8 heat/sec. (Cools 38 heat total per 10 seconds).
Heatsink Taxing threshold: 38 heat in a 10 second period. (Try to cool around 5 heat more than this amount across 10 seconds and you will melt heatsinks).
The issue with JJ heat is this.
In Paul's explanation he said he dug through the rules and that "jumpjets emit 3 heat on the first hex regardless of jumpjet count and 1 heat per additional hex." And he slapped this together as per second. Which kinda makes sense because higher than TT thresholds. Lots of B.S. can be done 'cause of that.
Anyway... He's made it so that we get X heat per jumpjet per second of jumpjet use * jumpjet weight.
Say it's 3 heat really quick. Got 2 jumpjets.
Light mech? 0.5 tons!
3 heat for 2 jumpjets per second at 0.5 tons. 3 * 2 = 6 heat per second /2 = 3 heat per second.
Medium/heavy mech? 1 tons!
3 heat for 2 jumpjets per second at 1 tons. 3*2 =6 * 1 = 6 heat per second.
Highlander? 2 tons!
3 heat for 2 jumpjets per second at 2 tons. 3 * 2 = 6 * 2 = 12 heat per second. Even in a heatsink boat like mine it does hurt ya thermally.
It's supposed to be 3 heat for the 10 seconds (for 30 meters forward, 12 meters high [initial jump is always higher for some reason, especially on Megamek]. 60 meters forward, 18 meters high is 4 heat, 90 meters forward and 24 meters high is supposed to be 5 heat). [It's actually 6, 9, 12 meters high but MWO's mechs can be nearly twice as tall as their BT counterparts]).
Then again, threshold's supposed to be 30 + your cooling power if doing 10 second time slices (with cooling not being an actual threshold but a resistance to filling it). My Heavy Metal's got:
Heat Threshold : 75.12
Cooling Rate : 3.75 heat/sec
Versus the source material value for the same build: (I use it on TT too, with a 360 since 330 isn't available, SRM-2s instead of streaks, and significantly less ammo because totally unnecessary). This breakdown assumes exact same number of heatsinks as the MWO version.
Mech Threshold: 30 (Reach this much heat uncooled at any point in time and it's an automatic shutdown and at least 10 seconds before you can power up again, usually longer.)
Cooling power: 3.8 heat/sec. (Cools 38 heat total per 10 seconds).
Heatsink Taxing threshold: 38 heat in a 10 second period. (Try to cool around 5 heat more than this amount across 10 seconds and you will melt heatsinks).
(Last addition) I dug it up and screenshotted it.
Very informative. Thank you for the information. How does Russ/Paul/the community think this is okay???
So if I have 4 JJs then it is 24 heat per second? That sounds awfully high..
I disagree with those who say the Highlander isn't tanky. It is. A decent twisting ability will make your HGNs last for-seemingly-ever. They're one of the few Inner Sphere assault 'mechs that are XL friendly even at lower engine ratings. Their CT and ST areas are nicely balanced against each other - if you want to run an XL, you can make sure more shots hit your CT. If you want to run a STD, you can twist just enough to make your STs take the brunt of the damage. As far as tanking ability goes, Highlanders are pretty versatile - not as outright amazing as Stalkers or Banshees, but not as limited as Battlemasters or King Crabs.
As for Koniving's suggestions, they do hit upon a truth. Yes, you can make efficient DPS builds with Highlanders. But what he doesn't really address in his posts here, is that that is only one playstyle. Does anyone else think Highlanders should be limited to being good at only one thing? I don't...
Fix JJs in general and you will fix the Highlander. Like, immediately. Do that, and 90% or more of the chassis' problems disappear. Instantly. Once that's done, PGI should also give both it and the Victor unique, differentiating JJ quirks to set them apart from each other. In lore, Victors use their JJs to get into range of their AC/20s, and jump back out before the enemy can react - they don't have the armor for drawn-out engagements.
In contrast to Victors, Highlanders in lore used their JJs to offset their low speed, helping them gain an advantage in terrain navigation that other assault 'Mechs (which generallyhad similar speeds) could not match. Even heavy 'mechs would become less mobile in more jagged terrain. And of course, pilots soon began to use these jets as a weapon in their own right, with the act of crushing another 'Mech under a JJ-powered drop becoming so affiliated with the Highlander that it was informally named after that same chassis.
So, once JJs in general are improved? Maybe do something like:
Victor: faster JJ recharge, stronger initial JJ boost, but higher JJ heat and thrust becomes less potent after the initial boost
Highlander: stronger overall thrust, higher angle of thrust, lower heat
As well as leg reinforcement for Highlanders to counter the damage of crushing 'Mechs underfoot(this also appears in lore).
Koniving, you often use builds utilizing a mish-mash of relatively "low damage weapons" which intrigues me. I never paid special attention to this kind of DPS build. I think I'll try one someday on my Highlanders (love em!).
EDIT: Compared to you, I always use these standard "Atlas-twist-and-shoot" builds. I think I'm still trapped in the "meta" thought process, which is to do damage as high as possible in the shortest amount of (face) time.
The idea is not max DPS, it is consistent DPS with crit seeking, never mind the psychological effect of incoming hits, even if it is from an AC2. Many do not even hit the R key so they do not even know it is an AC2...
That is what made the T-bolt 9S nice with the ERPPCs, I used it in chain fire w/2ERPPC +MLAS.
Very informative. Thank you for the information. How does Russ/Paul/the community think this is okay???
So if I have 4 JJs then it is 24 heat per second? That sounds awfully high..
That's inserting a value of 3 into it. And besides, Paul explained it to the community as "tabletop uses 3 heat per second" (Which if that was true then you'd get 30 heat just for one jumpjet since a turn is 10 seconds) and went on to explain that the revamp would make it so that more jumpjets would give generate 'a little' more heat, faster lift and higher lift. The problem rests in the fact that 3 jumpjets barely give any 'speed' to the lift.
It could be lower than three for the initial heat, or it could be using addition rather than multiplication. Whatever the case you can see quite a difference in heat produced per second as well as total heat produced. Too bad jumpjets aren't included in the heat simulator.
If we use the literal TT version (3 initial, 1 per hex) and combine it with his method...
Then the initial jump would be 3 * Jumpjet# (* or +) Jumpjet Weight = burst heat.
Then per second, it'd be 1*jumpjet# (* or +) jumpjet weight = per second heat after.
Which is much more reasonable (and can be what was done).
So in the initial example it'd turn into (for a Highlander with 3 JJ)...
Assuming +
3 * 3 + 2 = 8 heat burst.
1 * 3 + 2 = 5 heat per second. (This fits pretty well, given the typical baseline threshold in MWO with 10 DHS and above a 250 engine is 60 after elites, and Highlanders are usually in the 70s for threshold.)
Actually that fits so well with the percentage increases I'm not gonna do the multiplication version. That could very well be the formula.
(To note, a 3 jumpjet Jenner would generate with that same formula)
3 heat * 3 jumpjets + 0.5 JJ weight= 6.5 heat burst.
1*3+0.5 = 4.5 heat per second.
Hmm.. Seems a bit off here. Though that could be because of cooling cutting that heat generation in half. That's the issue about trying to compare something that's actually running to the paper model, there's always more to it than meets the eye especially when things get added to the running version. Hm.
What I'd really like to know is how much heat the engine generates per second. It's proven that powering off allows cooling to occur reasonably quicker (doesn't kick in immediately but a second or two after the fact so just a power off power on won't do anything). In TT it's "0" idle, 1 for cruising speed, 2 for running speed, 3 initial for a jump, 3 for sprint and more for MASC/supercharger(+sprint).
But back to the Highlander.. That heat is if you're 90 tons or more. You can handle it. Besides -- canonically it's impossible to have more than 3 jumpjets on a mech that heavy without turning it into a Glorified Charger (80 ton mech, 80+ kph, 6 or 8 small lasers). Your jumpjet maximum can only equal your cruising hex movement. You'd need a 360 engine to carry 4 jumpjets. So, nope. (Though yes I know the HM gets 4. God knows I'd never use that many).
(This also means the 12 JJ Spider is impossible canonically).
Overall, I think what would make a big difference is if instead of 'jump and go forward maybe 4 feet', if it really did have the potential to push us quite a bit forward. I'd rather deal with forward leaping bunny hoppers than poptarts (unless PGI restores CryEngine's default gravity, then I wouldn't care either way because inertia and resistance to change in momentum = that perfect moment when the target reaches 0 vertical inertia before the shift in direction... 'PULL!' *Shot.* *Airborne Mech shatters.*)
In general they (PGI) think the slow jumping is okay because they don't want mechs to become gundams. I liked the original jump system and praised it over the 'Flying' of MekTek for MW4.
Koniving, you often use builds utilizing a mish-mash of relatively "low damage weapons" which intrigues me. I never paid special attention to this kind of DPS build. I think I'll try one someday on my Highlanders (love em!).
My builds -- as you even implied here -- are things that enemies won't notice as much. That is a factor in why it works so well for me. Yours on the other hand send off alarms. A huge, universal priority, anyone and everyone knows "AC/20 + 3 SRM-6" = Danger! Danger, Will Robinson!
This means that universally, if you pop up on someone's sensors -- everyone, communication or not, will immediately find you to be the largest threat. In turn, this could mean that within seconds of you showing up, Up to 12 targeting reticules are going to line up on you faster than any aimbot script kitty could ever hope to do in other games (in other words faster than instantly) and blast the crap out of you.
Meanwhile, who is gonna pay attention to someone using what meta claims are "garbage" weapons?
First, why are they garbage? Because they lack high PinPoint, Front-Loaded Damage. Not High PP/FLD, not meta. Nevermind if they can outperform meta weapons over the long haul, because that means 'being exposed'. Then as Tarl mentioned, there's the Crit factor. If I can not only hammer you but -- as is a principle with many of my builds -- disable your weapons long before blowing your limbs off -- then why not?
Meta doesn't care about that ability because it's not something you can quantify exactly.
But does meta really know what it's talking about? "LBX sucks because spread damage."
Here. Tell me how these 20 projectiles, massed in a SINGLE BALL, is spread damage? Up to 250 meters this LBX has no spread. "Holy {beep} that is one bullet!" Hellbringer versus Hellbringer. Want IS ACs on a Clan mech? Pack in Clan LBX. "But LBX is bad." I ask, where did you read that? "Meta." Have you tried it? "Uh, no." Well then...
But back to weapons suck because exposure time. Who is really exposed? The player in the open with 'garbage' weapons, or the player in the open with meta weapons?
Lets try an example:
If you had two choices, one being a Jagermech with 4 AC/5s and another being twin AC/20s... which would you focus first? Sort of a tough decision isn't it? You're probably asking "Which one is closer?" Or "Is one in the open?" It's very situational.
What if I said it was 4 UAC/5s on one and twin AC/20s on the other? My answer would be the first in almost every situation. Why? Having run it I know it has literally the Stock Jagermech armor (it won't ever work otherwise). Fast kill, then I can deal with the other mech.
(Fun one: Taking on a twin AC/20 Jager with a Flamer Battlemaster -- and winning).
Now what if I said your choices are a Jagermech with 4 medium lasers and 4 MGs, or a Jagermech with 4 AC/5s? Bet that was quick. How quick was that answer?
Now ask yourself, why did you choose the 4 AC/5 Jagermech to kill first? I can tell you the answer but it means more if you think of it yourself.
Highlanders. Say there's a Highlander with 3 SRM6+Artemis, an AC/20 + lasers. Right next to it is a Highlander with LBX, AC/2, 2 streaks, and 2 ML. Which do you destroy first?
Would you change your mind depending on their range when side by side?
If you're anything like most players, regardless of the circumstances you will always choose the threat that could kill you the quickest.
When given the choice between who to bet on, players will always bet on the hare. How could a tortoise possibly win a race against that!?
The Tortoise and the Hare.
Spoiler
On short skirmishes, the 'hare' (quick killer) will always win. But that hare needs to throw a lot of energy into its attacks after having to get within range. That effort is drawn in MWO in the form of heat. How many back to back skirmishes can the Hare endure? 1? 2? Heavy panting, can't catch its breath. So much wasted energy in going for the quick kill. Finally, it collapses in front of its enemies, unable to fight any longer.
I build for the tortoise. I don't plan for the short skirmish but the long-haul. Endurance is everything. I'm not gonna go face to face with one person, I'll be fighting as many as 12 enemies back to back and I work with the assumption I'll be doing this on my own. Carrying the boulder and the team uphill, "I'm having fun!" I can't afford to 'get tired'. I can't afford to stop. I can't afford a single millisecond where I can't act or react. I need to be able to take on at least 4 enemies at once, systematically killing them without powering off even once. That's the bare minimum.
Not that I can't do it, as you can see here in this time skipped vid. I can handle shutting down and turning the fight around against multiple enemies. But if I can put the enemy in that situation instead of myself, why not? Who would switch to chain fire to keep from shutting down again? Or know exactly where to aim to bring both enemies to death back to back when the situation turned dire?
In the long haul, calculated endurance (the tortoise; DPS) will almost always outperform the beserker's rage (the hare's sprint, high alpha). Of course, that's assuming you can avoid being caught in that rage.
As Tarl mentioned, both strategies are purely contextual.
Skirmishers (hares, high alpha meta) need blitzkriegs. Lightning fast strikes. They need to get in, deliver their payload and get out to cool off and rest. No rest and they won't get far. DPS fighters (long-haul endurance, tortoises) need time to set the perfect conditions (let the hares run themselves ragged, then hit 'em when they are down on their knees). Once set, DPS fighters rarely if ever need rest so they can take on a lot of stuff and keep going.
Here's footage of just a few other endurance builds I have (and I have quite a lot).
Blitzer Dragon. Early stuff, but it's totally back. If the Dragon could still get around like this, it'd probably still be nearly meta.
You know I want to add somthing here(I skipped the last half of this page)
Quite a few people talking baout JJ fixing the chassis, how jumping spread dmg to legs, etc. I DO remember that! I recall seeing even catapults getting dmg spread lower when they jumped back when splatcat was still around.
but you know, laser HSR has been UBERFIXED since that time, and durations changed. Even if you are one of those that dont think lasers are that much better because you have a nice low stable ping, they are, by FAR better then they were. And so, IMO, jumping isnt going to spread dmg like it used to, even if they doubled JJ effectiveness from pre nerf values. Lasers, they hit where you point them now. If you point them at a HGN face, jumping or not, well, at worst you will splash a little on ST or something. not legs though, not unless you are trying to crotch shot the thing. Not anymore.
bascially, IMO HSR did a lot of the 'jump brawling" for us back then. I do not think it will do the same for us anymore, and IMO that is also part of the decline in things like jumping shawks. Shawks can still jump, not like before, and not with one JJ or even two, but a full compliment will still get it some air time. But the dmg to the legs? That just isnt the same- and this is from someone who used to use that trick in lights, much less a shawk or a Victor.
Don't get me wrong, IMO JJ are not in their "good place" yet. They are in some kind of place holder area, while PGI sorts out it's main content for the future of the game. they will have to adress JJ, some time, because old JJ were too much fun on too many chassis to have them skunked because of poptarts.
Really, They should do a pass on ALL the mechs, just sit down with relevent persons, look at all mechs per weight class, and give a pass for mobility, hitbox stuff, balance vs each other for speed/firepower/durability based on tonnage and make a fluid curve from 20 tons to 100 tons, with just some this and that in mobility/durability for flavor based on the source material. Some of these old mechs, quirks are a good placeholder, but they need a pass so the "steps" from one to the next makes sense to the players.
On a partly related note, there is a nifty thread about the visuals and standardizing 1k/2k/4k in the general discuss section too.
maybe Russ and Paul and crew should make themselves a meeting note on the calendar for like, Sept. 15 or so and make it a 4th quarter project this year.
1
PorkCereal, on 18 March 2015 - 12:37 PM, said:
Canyon makes my life hard because hover jets.
