15 replies to this topic

[Edward Radenovic-Espinueva]

I get that the C-AC/2 when the trigger is pulled it fires 2 rounds each round does 1 damage. But for C-AC/5 it fires 3 rounds per trigger pull. 5 / 3 = 1.666666666666667 damage per round?

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Yes, you can see this in smurfy's site too.

Just hover over the damage for the popup to show.

[Koniving]

Edward Radenovic-Espinueva, on 18 March 2015 - 08:05 PM, said:

I get that the C-AC/2 when the trigger is pulled it fires 2 rounds each round does 1 damage. But for C-AC/5 it fires 3 rounds per trigger pull. 5 / 3 = 1.666666666666667 damage per round?

Correct. Take that number *3 and you get exactly 5 damage.

C-AC/10 is 4 shots at 2.5 damage/round, and C-AC/20 is 5 shots at 5 damage/round.

Strangely the AC/5 is still the most popular of the Clan ACs.

[YCSLiesmith]

I strongly recommend you avoid clan autocannons. IS autocannons are great but clan autocannons are really, really bad. the Clan Gauss is the only good clan ballistic.

fortunately clan lasers are superb.

Koniving, on 18 March 2015 - 08:14 PM, said:

Correct. Take that number *3 and you get exactly 5 damage.

C-AC/10 is 4 shots at 2.5 damage/round, and C-AC/20 is 5 shots at 5 damage/round.

Strangely the AC/5 is still the most popular of the Clan ACs.

you want fewer shots because it packs all the damage in. Clan ACs waste ammo and miss often (every single time you're leading a moving target or taking a marginal shot there is waste) so you get awful damage with them. they're solid for coring people in the back, obviously, but what gun isn't?

[Skarlock]

Koniving, on 18 March 2015 - 08:14 PM, said:

Correct. Take that number *3 and you get exactly 5 damage.

C-AC/10 is 4 shots at 2.5 damage/round, and C-AC/20 is 5 shots at 5 damage/round.

Strangely the AC/5 is still the most popular of the Clan ACs.

I would say it's because UAC5 just hits a lot of sweet middle grounds between other clan auto cannons. It doesn't have the highest alpha or the highest dps, but it's high enough as long as you don't get an unlucky jam. It doesn't have the greatest range but it's pretty far. It doesn't have the best accuracy but it does only fire 3 rounds per shot so you still get pretty tight grouping, and the time between bullets is very low. Ton for ton it's probably the best overall clan autocannon because it's a jack of all trades.

[Koniving]

YCSLiesmith, on 19 March 2015 - 04:14 AM, said:

you want fewer shots because it packs all the damage in. Clan ACs waste ammo and miss often (every single time you're leading a moving target or taking a marginal shot there is waste) so you get awful damage with them. they're solid for coring people in the back, obviously, but what gun isn't?

Aim better. It's not a complicated skill. A single hit with the Clan AC/20 is exactly the damage that all 3 hits with the Clan AC/5 can possibly do. Nail 2? That's better than 6 of the C-AC/5. So that fewer shots means really nothing at all. What you vouched for favors the C AC/20 not the C AC/5.

There's simply more to it than that.

Each individual shot leaves the barrel slower on the larger ACs. Larger AC rounds are also a LOT slower. AC/20 is 43% slower than AC/5 in terms of round speed.

When you add targeting computers, AC/5s can go up to 1322.5 meters/second, where an AC/20's max speed is 747.5 meters/second.

There's a lot more involved than just shot count. An AC/20 can have fewer shots and it still wouldn't be the preference.

Besides, look at LBX. Single shot, 20 damage, all one to two locations -- and yet no one uses them. Though I personally believe this is because Targeting Computers will NOT improve LBX in ANY way.
Watch this.


"All CT damage." AC/20 and LBX 20. Nothing but CT damage.

Skarlock, on 19 March 2015 - 04:47 AM, said:

I would say it's because UAC5 just hits a lot of sweet middle grounds between other clan auto cannons. It doesn't have the highest alpha or the highest dps, but it's high enough as long as you don't get an unlucky jam. It doesn't have the greatest range but it's pretty far. It doesn't have the best accuracy but it does only fire 3 rounds per shot so you still get pretty tight grouping, and the time between bullets is very low. Ton for ton it's probably the best overall clan autocannon because it's a jack of all trades.

^That's the most likely reason. Plus the greatest speed.

Edited by Koniving, 19 March 2015 - 07:47 AM.

[Metus regem]

Koniving, on 18 March 2015 - 08:14 PM, said:

Correct. Take that number *3 and you get exactly 5 damage.

C-AC/10 is 4 shots at 2.5 damage/round, and C-AC/20 is 5 shots at 5 damage/round.

Strangely the AC/5 is still the most popular of the Clan ACs.

Not really, it has good range, short recycle time, good weight, good size (in space restricted mechs like Clan ones), as well as a quick meters/second speed...

The cUAC 10 and 20, the rounds just travel so slow, and with the cUAC's being hit-scan, they require vastly more tonnage to be effective, that is hurt by the fact that those weapons are as large as they are and weigh as much as they do, it's hard to fit them in effectively.

[Koniving]

Metus regem, on 19 March 2015 - 08:12 AM, said:

The cUAC 10 and 20, the rounds just travel so slow, and with the cUAC's being hit-scan, they require vastly more tonnage to be effective, that is hurt by the fact that those weapons are as large as they are and weigh as much as they do, it's hard to fit them in effectively.

Hitscan would be instant connection, no leading. Sure you're not using the wrong phrase here?
If they were hit scan, the speed of the bullets wouldn't matter as, well, instant connection akin to MGs, flamers, lasers.

[Metus regem]

Koniving, on 19 March 2015 - 08:51 AM, said:

Hitscan would be instant connection, no leading. Sure you're not using the wrong phrase here?
If they were hit scan, the speed of the bullets wouldn't matter as, well, instant connection akin to MGs, flamers, lasers.

Perhaps I am using the wrong phrase, but at the same time, they almost do work like hit scan, especially when close, as they travel near instant with a big TC, inside of 270m with a cUAC 20, the rounds give very little travel time to target, harder to dodge, but some mechs can twist fast enough to put those 5 rounds from arm to arm. Making them feel like they are a hit scan weapon. That being said, I do like to use one on my Summoner....

[Koniving]

Each individual round travels 650 meters/second for the C-AC/20 and UAC/20, even faster with a targeting computer.

Thing is the one shot = 20 damage IS AC/20 also travels 650 meters/second.

So at the ideal range of 270 meters, they're gonna hit pretty fast. Shorter the distance, the better.
Beyond that, they'll seem slow.

[Metus regem]

Koniving, on 19 March 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

Each individual round travels 650 meters/second for the C-AC/20 and UAC/20, even faster with a targeting computer.

Thing is the one shot = 20 damage IS AC/20 also travels 650 meters/second.

So at the ideal range of 270 meters, they're gonna hit pretty fast. Shorter the distance, the better.
Beyond that, they'll seem slow.

Very true, but when watching the animation, I have twisted against a cUAC 20, to put the damage across the LA/LT/CT/RT in a CN9-YLW, and used that same Centurion to deal 20 damage holes to Clanners, in single hits. It's that DOT vs burst that is at the core of the differences between IS and Clans.

[Repasy Cooper]

Koniving, on 19 March 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

Besides, look at LBX. Single shot, 20 damage, all one to two locations -- and yet no one uses them. Though I personally believe this is because Targeting Computers will NOT improve LBX in ANY way.

That's because lb-x does not get ANY benefit from Targeting Computers, just look at the TComp description...

And it does not focus all the damage on one or two locations, it has a high spread so your lucky to get half of them to hit unless you're at point-blank range.

Having said that, I still love the weapons. You can load 2x lb20-x on a Hellbringer, making one heluva good mech for ambushing in an urban setting. Plus, don't forget about the high chance for critical hits, every pellet shot from an lb-x has a chance to do more than 1 damage.

[ExoForce]

Anyone noticed strange (?) synergy between CERLL and C-UAC5? Fired together, this combination punches target mech more brutal (faster) then I expect. I call this effect *piercing*, can demolish big mechs very fast.

[zudukai]

Metus regem, on 19 March 2015 - 09:03 AM, said:

Very true, but when watching the animation, I have twisted against a cUAC 20, to put the damage across the LA/LT/CT/RT in a CN9-YLW, and used that same Centurion to deal 20 damage holes to Clanners, in single hits. It's that DOT vs burst that is at the core of the differences between IS and Clans.

and the core reason why most people prefer the Gauss, that being said, my favorite clan autocannon is the cUAC/10 even just a single cannon hits really good and the synergy with PPC is excellent, and compliments the DPS with a nice PPFLD shot.

TBR-P ÷ Division

[Koniving]

Repasy, on 19 March 2015 - 09:26 AM, said:

That's because lb-x does not get ANY benefit from Targeting Computers, just look at the TComp description...

Isn't that what I had said? o.O;

Also you failed to watch the video, at 270 meters or less, it is a single shot because of how closely compacted it is. Seriously, watch the video.
I have a Clan mech.
On one side, I shoot 5 shots per squeeze.
On the other, it's a single ballistic projectile (actually 20 compressed into one space) that won't spread at all until hitting nearly 260 meters.

[YCSLiesmith]

Koniving, on 19 March 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

Aim better. It's not a complicated skill. A single hit with the Clan AC/20 is exactly the damage that all 3 hits with the Clan AC/5 can possibly do. Nail 2? That's better than 6 of the C-AC/5. So that fewer shots means really nothing at all. What you vouched for favors the C AC/20 not the C AC/5.

nothing to do with aiming better. with an IS ballistic, you shoot a guy and if you lead him properly you hit him. full damage each time. with a clan ballistic, you shoot a guy, you hit him with one of the bullets but then may well miss with the rest unless he is running towards/away from you or standing still. that means that you need to carry 3-5x as much ammo to get the same kind of damage as IS guys get. that's a lot of wasted tonnage, the potential for some brutal crit damage, and if you miss entirely, that's a huge impact on your potential damage for the entire match. Clan ACs are a high risk low reward weapon. Sure, if you get the drop on someone in close they are immensely satisfying, brutal weapons that are almost as good as their IS counterparts. but unlike their IS counterparts they can't do anything but in-close wrecking.

the reason i favor AC5 over AC20 is the AC20 gets far, far fewer shots per ton than the AC5 (almost 6x fewer for the AC20!) and it wastes practically the whole ton every time it is fired. with the AC5 you get more shots per ton and a higher proportion of shots on target. it's a steadier, more careful weapon. That said the clan AC 5 is also garbage for all the same reasons, it's just less so.