75 replies to this topic

[Clint Steel]

I do believe that the Adder should have gotten much better quirks but I also feel they have to be careful when giving the Clans their quirks. With the modularity the Clans posses its very easy to min/max them much higher than stock if you have all the omnipods. So while trying to help a bad IS variant with quirks works pretty well, doing the same with Clans will result in just using that specific "well quirked" omnipod, and stacking it with another one.

Also keep in mind that Clan tech weighs less than IS, on top of their superior (if not optimal) damage and range. Heat is the only trade off, and if that is taken away so is any balance.

So though I feel there are several Clan Mechs that need much better quirks, I would rather see them implement them little bits at a time, to try and keep the balance, so they don't have to Nerf them back down like the Thunderbolt, Wuberine, and BJs.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

The thing that a panther was not meant to wield 2 er ppcs (+ max custom engine+dhs+endo+ferro) yet it is a valid build.

the adder prime is a dedicated 2 er ppc mech, yet it doesn't work very well ingame. (the flamer which should help to get rid of the heat does the exact opposite btw).

quirking is like.. having a racing game where the guy in the fiat 500 somehow gets his car buffed until it's equal to an nissan 350r.

Michael Costanza, on 20 March 2015 - 04:32 PM, said:

So I'm not sure where you get the "six companies against ten mechs part"

the problem is that a galaxy can be everything between 40 and 750 points.

[Michal R]

Anoter Clan cry.
Bring popcorn.

And for sure i have better K/D on Adder without quirks. Panther with quirks is not so good.
Why? Becouse ER PPC it's to hot. LPL is beter. And for LPL you don't have 25% heat.

And guys I don't like quirks. If you can play you don't need it.

[Bluttrunken]

BaronVonH, on 21 March 2015 - 07:19 AM, said:

Just a thought to try and stop all the QQ, from both sides.... Why not provide the current meta, min/maxed dropdeck as a trial option for ALL mechwarriors, IS *OR* Clan? Then, if the meta changes, just change the drop deck to reflect it! Its not like you are gonna get any cash outta the comp guys.... they already had min/maxed mechs well before they got serious.... You don't have to let them run those mechs in solo/group cue..... Make the dropdeck mechs exclusive to the CW and training areas.... If its REALLY about skill and teamwork, nobody (re:Only trolls!) should complain....

That way, no one would be bashing PUGs for taking the wrong mechs, and no one would be QQing that they didnt have the cash for the right gear... CW isn't the cash grab.... Anyone can read about the meta, buy just those 4 mechs, and be good to go. Just give them to ERRYBODY, and the crying would end, immediately, freeing up resources for the company to move forward, and stop all the fuckery....

Dress them up nice for free in the faction colours of your current choice, and errybody would be happy. Keep It Simple, Smartguy. Anybody else feeling this?

If you always could use all top tier mechs with perfect loadouts, what would make you spend money on the game?

[NUJRSYDEVIL]

Anybody who is impartial and tasked to review the balance or lack thereof between the IS and Clan would find that the game heavily favors the IS.

There is favoritism at hand, I don't believe any of us know the real reason why, but it's been that way since the initial Clan nerfing.

There's no point in fighting it, we've all brought up this matter many times but nothing happens. We are given a pittance (like the Adder quirk) and told to shut up.

[Helaton]

So far, I've only had a chance to play the Adders with Quirks (Used for all my lucky charms and drop decks, which is 140+ fights right now). As far as quirks, the other adder quirks are satisfying, but the ER-PPC has issues.

ER PPC Velocity +15% > Up this to 10% per omnipod. Combined with a TAC, we can push ourselves up to 25-28% ppc velocity
ER PPC Cooldown - 4% > Change this to ER PPC Heat Generation, and double it (8%). Cooldown bonus just makes an Adder overheat that much faster.

The others are just fine tuning (laser duration etc.). Its hard to see any difference in SRM/LRM groupings. So the weapons quirk is interesting, but hard to see value. The movement and structure buffs are a godsend. Most of the time I lose my CT/ST's before my arms and legs.

As I move on to other mechs will post feedback, but the summoner looks like it is going to be a depressing 100 matches. I'll probably do Mist Lynxes next to take advantage of the higher than normal assault/heavy %s due to the new mechs to get fast matches.

[Felbombling]

Make a quirk pass the reflects the stock load out of any given Mech, and I'd be happy, but they have some fairly crazy stuff that only promotes boating of weapons. They need to show more forethought on some of these changes and how players will learn to exploit them. The only time I've seen PGI do this correctly was when they introduced the 2x Gauss Rifle charge mechanic with the release of Clan Wave 1. Other than that, they always seem to be getting caught with their pants down. "Damn... didn't see that build coming." Buff sections of Mechs to make them tougher, sure, but some of these weapon buffs to range, speed and firing rate may make the game such a convoluted mess for new players, it might turn many of them away.

Small, stock load out focused changes along with buffed location durability should have been the way quirks were introduced.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Michal R, on 21 March 2015 - 07:48 AM, said:

Anoter Clan cry.
Bring popcorn.

And for sure i have better K/D on Adder without quirks. Panther with quirks is not so good.
Why? Becouse ER PPC it's to hot. LPL is beter. And for LPL you don't have 25% heat.

And guys I don't like quirks. If you can play you don't need it.

no, but the 10k get's -12,5% cooldown and heat for large Pulse. 12,5% more then the adder. just sayin'-

[pbiggz]

Heres some good summoner quirks: +25% ER PPC velocity, +25% ER PPC heat dissipation, +15% Missile convergence, + 30% Ballistic Velocity.

Heres some good adder quirks: +35% ER PPC heat dissipation

Heres some good ice ferret quirks: +25% ER PPC heat dissipation, +50% UAC2 velocity, + 50% UAC2 cooldown

Heres some good gargoyle quirks: +50% SRM 6 Cooldown, + 50% LBX AC5 Cooldown, + 15% LBX AC velocity

its, not, *******, hard.

Anyone who comes here and says the clans are super op needs a reality check. Their flat damage values are amazing until you hit it with staggering heat, hour long burn times, sub-par speeds (the golden triumvirate is obviously the exception), sub-par armor values, etc.

There is no clan mech that can match the raw dps a Thunderbolt 5SS with 7 medium pulse lasers can deliver.

[ThrashInc]

Adder only needs 15% heat generation to match the Panther.

I think you'd compare the Ice Ferret to a Blackjack, not sure about Gargoyle. Haven't done any math for those.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

pbiggz, on 21 March 2015 - 09:01 AM, said:

Heres some good summoner quirks: +25% ER PPC velocity, +25% ER PPC heat dissipation, +15% Missile convergence, + 30% Ballistic Velocity.

Heres some good adder quirks: +35% ER PPC heat dissipation

Heres some good ice ferret quirks: +25% ER PPC heat dissipation, +50% UAC2 velocity, + 50% UAC2 cooldown

Heres some good gargoyle quirks: +50% SRM 6 Cooldown, + 50% LBX AC5 Cooldown, + 15% LBX AC velocity

its, not, *******, hard.

Anyone who comes here and says the clans are super op needs a reality check. Their flat damage values are amazing until you hit it with staggering heat, hour long burn times, sub-par speeds (the golden triumvirate is obviously the exception), sub-par armor values, etc.

There is no clan mech that can match the raw dps a Thunderbolt 5SS with 7 medium pulse lasers can deliver.

well, i get what you mean, and i agree to a certain degree. but i don't want DOA Clanmechs to be the next thunderbolts. help, yes. overpowerd quirks, no. the summoner kinda needs it cuz of it's limited hardpoints (some goes for the adder which is supposed to wield 2 big weapons)

ThrashInc, on 21 March 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

Adder only needs 15% heat generation to match the Panther.

I think you'd compare the Ice Ferret to a Blackjack, not sure about Gargoyle. Haven't done any math for those.

i thought of it more like a cicada, speedy non JJ medium.

[Thorn Hallis]

Jaroth Corbett, on 19 March 2015 - 01:27 PM, said:

This is an insult to Clansmen everywhere.

Can something fictional really be insulted?

[ThrashInc]

Yeah, I hadn't thought about the speed. The best loadout I can think of (personal playstyle anyway) is an Ice Ferret with 4xC-ERML and 1xC-SSRM6.

This compares directly to the Cicada X-5.

Some people may not feel comparing a regular mech to a hero mech is valid, but personally I find very few hero mechs worth their cost and their quirks are often underwhelming. This is probably so people don't really get much benefit from 30% CBill boost, but that said, let's just use the X-5 anyway.

So using the following builds:

X-5

Quirks:

Turn Rate +10%
Additional Armor LA +12
Additional Armor RA +12
Additional Structure LL +10
Additional Structure RL +10
Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +10%
Energy Range +20%
Energy Heat Generation -10%
Laser Duration -10%
Missile Cooldown +25%
Medium Laser Range +20%
Medium Laser Heat Generation -10%
Medium Laser Duration -10%

With modules, this brings the IS Medium Laser out to the C-ERML range. Assume that, as well as SRM4 Cooldown 5 and Medium Laser Cooldown 5.

This allows the X-5 to do 203.2 damage in 13s before needing to slow DPS.

---

The Ice Ferret using the following build:

IFR-A

Using existing quirks:

A____CT Omnipod: Acceleration Rate +20% | Deceleration Rate +20% | Turn Rate +5% | Overheat Damage -5% | ER Laser Duration -2% | ER Laser Cooldown +2%
C____RT Omnipod: Additional Structure +6 | Torso Turn Angle +13
C____LT Omnipod: Additional Structure +6 | Missile Cooldown +1% | LRM Spread -1% | SRM Spread -1% | Missile Velocity +1%
D____RA Omnipod: Additional Structure +7 | Pulse Laser Duration -1%
P____LA Omnipod: Additional Structure +14 | ERPPC Velocity +7.5% | Energy Cooldown +2%
A____RL Omnipod: Additional Structure +11
A____LL Omnipod: Additional Structure +11

With Cooldown modules for the C-SSRM6 and C-ERML, the Ice Ferret is able to do 108 damage in 8s before needing to slow DPS.

Streak SRM 6 isn't an awful weapon to need to rely on, though it has its flaws. If I ride the heat line until 13s (the Cicada X-5 mark) I do 134 damage in 13s.


Currently the X-5 (15.6dps@13s) is able to out DPS the Ice Ferret (10.3dps@13s) at the same range while also enjoying ~.45s reduction in beam duration.

Adjusting ONLY for heat generation and not SSRM/Missile cooldowns, the Ice Ferret would need an Energy Heat Generation -30% to compare to the X-5. This would allow the Ice Ferret to do 176 damage in 13s and we can just assume the Clan Targeting Computer Mk.1 and C-SSRM6 vs IS SRM4 is a wash in actual damage dealt.

Past that, I could see the same arm armor quirks and better duration quirks (maybe a total of 10%, bringing the C-ERML to just over 1s) added to round out the Ice Ferret.

I could also see more aggressive missile quirks (maybe 10% CD here too) because the Ice Ferret should be a little more powerful as it is 5t heavier. Up for debate, everyone hates SSRM6's.

Edit: I'm hella tired, if something is slightly off my bad.

Edited by ThrashInc, 21 March 2015 - 10:41 AM.

[CyclonerM]

Thorn Hallis, on 21 March 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

Can something fictional really be insulted?

Ask those who attacked Charlie Hebdo's offices

[Bluttrunken]

NUJRSYDEVIL, on 21 March 2015 - 08:10 AM, said:

Anybody who is impartial and tasked to review the balance or lack thereof between the IS and Clan would find that the game heavily favors the IS.

Admittely PGI seems far too reluctant to give Clan mechs, which deserve it, significant buffs.

If you look at some quirked IS mechs it's ridiculous.

Edited by k05h3lk1n, 21 March 2015 - 12:51 PM.

[Tarogato]

Iterative quirks.

Yes, I'm sorry, it's a big word. But it's literally the word PGI used to describe this quirk pass, especially in regards to the Clan quirks and I think everybody is completely ignoring this word.

It means that the values or indeed the quirks themselves are liable to change incrementally. Today it might be 4%, next week it might be 8%, and the week after it might go to 16% and then perhaps 20%.

The quirks are weak because PGI wants numbers. They want to see how much 4% can make a difference in both the mechs performance and how often people choose to use it. It doesn't mean that the mech is going to stay at 4%. Their metrics will be a lot more inconclusive if they jumped to 25% quirks like they have BEEN doing.

Have some damned patience, folks.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Thorn Hallis, on 21 March 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

Can something fictional really be insulted?

We represent a group of players i.e. real people so yes we can be insulted.

Edited by Jaroth Corbett, 21 March 2015 - 01:08 PM.

[CrushLibs]

Here is an idea put the PPC heat back down to 12 or 13 like it used to be.

Also PGI has messed up thinking take a hot puma and cut its PPC cycle time so it can overheat even faster?? ya

or the NOVA stock 12 med laser very hot but could be used , up the heat on all clan lasers and now the NOVA is WORTHLESS.

PGI needs to revamp the entire setup from quirks to hard points on both sides of the fence. Push the timeline to 3060 and lets rock

[Wabbit Swaya]

ClaymoreReIIik, on 20 March 2015 - 06:44 AM, said:

Math and stuff

Forgot to note.... take out it's gun arm... the panther is useless... take out one gun arm, the adder has a spare.

[Koniving]

Jaroth Corbett, on 19 March 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

I agree. Definitely something backwards here. If Adders want more ER PPC speed, they can use Targeting Computer. What Adders need are cooler temperatures due to PGI's heat system where Engine DHS for a 210 engine is ALWAYS inferior to engine DHS for a 250 engine.

210 engine 10 DHS.
Heat Threshold : 58.55999999999999
Cooling Rate : 2.16 heat/sec
250 engine 10 DHS.
Heat Threshold : 60
Cooling Rate : 2.30 heat/sec

What the Adder could really use is a slower firing rate or being colder. Faster bullets? Pfft; that's what a targeting computer is for. It's too hot to run ER PPCs on an Adder, because in comparison IS mechs can get better thresholds than the Adder can.

Then again... None of the percentages need to be so damn high on any mech.