309 replies to this topic

[NeoCodex]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 March 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

SRMs? Truly pointless.

Stopped reading right there. I am dissapointed in this review (or conclusion on first impressions but it looks more like a review, as it should be considering it's a bit late for that at this point of time now). If you will bother making a review like this in the future, at least fully test out all the possibilities before giving out a half-arsed opinion such as this. Sorry for my expression but that's just how it is. You should at least try next time and give the SRM a chance, Bishop, and just forget about the LRM. The ASRM16 + 2/3 LPLs build is a monster. Convergence on the lasers is not as bad as you would think, either. Yes, it's a bit off but decent enough. And surprisingly it was the build I had most success with while grinding it out of all the chassis - first game was 4 kills at 600~800 damage remaining the last man standing - 0 basics. I think it was even an XL at that point. Don't remember. I ussualy start grinding with XL engines, so it probably was. So stating a conclusion on the chassis that SRMs are pointless without even trying, it's obviously not doing it justice. From all the builds I tried this was the most unique, fun and it can basically just destroy things. There's also other viable builds you can make. It's not the best chassis but it can certanly do more than what you tried before giving it a review.

(I apologise if the tone of the message is somewhat rude, but it is because I strongly disagree with the SRM statement).


Entirely missed the context.

Edited by NeoCodex, 31 March 2015 - 04:11 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

NeoCodex, on 31 March 2015 - 02:10 AM, said:

Stopped reading right there. I am dissapointed in this review (or conclusion on first impressions but it looks more like a review, as it should be considering it's a bit late for that at this point of time now). If you will bother making a review like this in the future, at least fully test out all the possibilities before giving out a half-arsed opinion such as this. Sorry for my expression but that's just how it is. You should at least try next time and give the SRM a chance, Bishop, and just forget about the LRM. The ASRM16 + 2/3 LPLs build is a monster. Convergence on the lasers is not as bad as you would think, either. Yes, it's a bit off but decent enough. And surprisingly it was the build I had most success with while grinding it out of all the chassis - first game was 4 kills at 600~800 damage remaining the last man standing - 0 basics. I think it was even an XL at that point. Don't remember. I ussualy start grinding with XL engines, so it probably was. So stating a conclusion on the chassis that SRMs are pointless without even trying, it's obviously not doing it justice. From all the builds I tried this was the most unique, fun and it can basically just destroy things. There's also other viable builds you can make. It's not the best chassis but it can certanly do more than what you tried before giving it a review.

(I apologise if the tone of the message is somewhat rude, but it is because I strongly disagree with the SRM statement).

out of context quote for the win? He was saying SRMs are truly pointless when you only have a single missile hardpoint... The actual sentence you quoted is as follows:

Bishop Steiner, on 21 March 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

The 6S and 9S in particular, I just feel the RA is largely wasted space. The only thing remotely useful to do with a single Missile Hardpoint on a mech over 35 tons or so, is to slap a single LRM15 or 20 into it, and well, LRMs are of varying use, especially with only a single launcher. SRMs? Truly pointless.

This is 100% true. Though i would go so far as to say a single missile hardpoint on any mech of any tonnage is 100% useless (well, aside from maybe a NARC)

[NeoCodex]

I had a feeling something was not right. I don't know how could I miss that part. My bad.

As far as single missile hard points go it sure cannot be your primary weapon systems but sometimes these can still be useful on some mechs, even tough it may seem pointless. As far as for 6S and 9S goes I'm not sure about those either. You cannot make it a brawler with just that, so except for the shielding, I just ignored the missile arm on those variants as well.

Edited by NeoCodex, 31 March 2015 - 04:16 AM.

[The Ratfink]

I quite like having one LRM 10 or 15 on assaults. Means I can contribute something at least on the way to the fight. Assaults normally have the weight available. It helps your team while you trundle around without any clear shots. But I quite like balanced builds.

[Tahribator]

I'm wondering where the "It can't tank damage" sentiment comes from. I don't own the Zeus, but I looked around in the Smurfy's and compared its armor with the Atlas. The results:

Zeus armor values:
CT front: 90 standard + 15 quirk = 105
CT side: 60 standard + 17 quirk = 77

Atlas armor values:
CT front: 114 standard
CT side: 76 standard

(Comparison with the same rear armor values. 8 for sides, 10 for CT)

Granted, Atlas has more internals so it WILL tank better, but in terms of pure armor values the Zeus surpasses even the mighty Atlas. Combine it with a very well scaled frame with good mobility and this is probably the toughest 'Mech to crack in this game.

As an opponent, it certainly feels like it.

Edit: More thoughts about the Zeus here.

Edited by Tahribator, 31 March 2015 - 06:45 AM.

[DaZur]

Tahribator, on 31 March 2015 - 04:45 AM, said:

I'm wondering where the "It can't tank damage" sentiment comes from. I don't own the Zeus, but I looked around in the Smurfy's and compared its armor with the Atlas. The results:

It's a "feel" thing... Which IMHO is propagated by players who do not know how to roll damage.

Due to it's primary weaponry, most Zeus' are forced to expose their facing to their targets thus they tend to take a lot of damage in the name of dishing it out. I.e... attrition damage.

That said... the Zeus does have benefit of a very reasonable scale/hit-box combo.

At the end of the day, the "tankiness" of a Zeus has as much to to with the Zeus as it does the skill of the pilot....

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Curious: Where does the quirk armor go on sections that have a front and back? The front? or the Back?

Edited by Mirumoto Izanami, 31 March 2015 - 05:07 AM.

[Tahribator]

Mirumoto Izanami, on 31 March 2015 - 05:06 AM, said:

Curious: Where does the quirk armor go on sections that have a front and back? The front? or the Back?

I remember one of the developers stating it goes fully to the front. I can't find a source at the moment though.

[Bishop Steiner]

Tahribator, on 31 March 2015 - 04:45 AM, said:

I'm wondering where the "It can't tank damage" sentiment comes from. I don't own the Zeus, but I looked around in the Smurfy's and compared its armor with the Atlas. The results:

Zeus armor values:
CT front: 90 standard + 15 quirk = 105
CT side: 60 standard + 17 quirk = 77

Atlas armor values:
CT front: 114 standard
CT side: 76 standard

(Comparison with the same rear armor values. 8 for sides, 10 for CT)

Granted, Atlas has more internals so it WILL tank better, but in terms of pure armor values the Zeus surpasses even the mighty Atlas. Combine it with a very well scaled frame with good mobility and this is probably the toughest 'Mech to crack in this game.

As an opponent, it certainly feels like it.

Edit: More thoughts about the Zeus here.

99% of it comes down to the ability, or inability to roll damage. On Paper the ZEU has great armor. It's of a reasonable size, and the hitboxes are pretty darn good. Haven't properly mapped them (yet), but I never have a single area get consistently cored, which is the strongest indicator. Second strong indicator is I always lose at least one of my arms before I die. (If anything, thanks to how tough the torsos are, the arms feel a little fragile, lol).

But... you have some, that even after being here for 2 years or more? Still can't twist properly. And you can tell, because they comment, post after post about Mech X, or Mech Y being fragile.

Add to it that many of the ZEU chassis weapons are DoT. Most of the builds I see are Large Lasers and dual AC5s, etc. To be effective means a lot more staring. (One reason I seem to do fine with my ac10, LRMs and mlasers, is very little stare time, and also why the ERLL on my 9S are arm mounted....so I can twist while shooting.) Yet Boating LLs and LPLs seem to be the "Meta Approved" builds.

Combine the two factors, and you got people who quite simply cannot take advantage of the inherent toughness of the mech.
Add in the fact that at least on of those in question is a noted Joystick user (I wish Joysticks were truly good for this game, for immersion, but simple truth, they are not. M+KB is faster and more accurate than any Jstick setup I have seen), which means sloppier aim and time on target just increased even more.

It's not the chassis at fault, but the loose nuts behind the (steering)wheel.

Combine the t

[Lightfoot]

Unless PGI did a stealth nerf in January, LRMs are severely bugged. Sometimes they work, sometimes they just make the armor flash. Artemis LRMs only show up on Testing Grounds despite the animations. Artemis should work much better since the mech is likely under fire from lasers and AC's to get the needed Line of Sight. That would make the single missile hard point on the 6S and 9S have some value. Now single LRM launchers are just an enormous waste of payload tonnage.

Single A-SRM6's are good filler, they do actually work and are low heat, low tons.

-------------------My Zeus's voluminous CT gets cored anytime two enemy mechs look at it. Really in just the opening volley, cored. All you can do is turn away and hope you didn't lose all your CT armor. I easily cored and killed a Zeus in my Firestarter-E yesterday from about 200-300 meters. Too easy, I never missed until it tried to run away so I took out the rear armor and finished the job.


.

Edited by Lightfoot, 31 March 2015 - 09:20 AM.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

I gave up on using missiles on the ® variant. I hate leaving the right arm as a giant...erm...suppository (yeah, we'll go with that), but the 3 LPL + AC10 is working for me. Alpha, twist, Alpha, twist, Alpha, move on (assuming heavy or assault target).

Edited by Mirumoto Izanami, 31 March 2015 - 09:19 AM.

[Jackofallpots]

I feel weird about not using all the available hardpoints on my mechs so I just throw a SRM6 on the 6S

The Grasshopper on the other hand will have to remain missile-less

[DaZur]

Zeus Status: "Seriously betwixt".

I've got two -6S builds that I'm torn between (2.5 if you consider swapping LRMs for SRMs when I feel like it)

A.) 1 Gauss + 2 x ERLLas + LRM 15 or SRM 6 + Gauss cool-down mod & ERLLas range mod.

B.) 1 AC/10 + AC/2 + 2 x LLas + LRM 15 or SMR 6 + LLas range mod + AC/10 cool down mod.

Both have been extremely viable builds... "A" keeps me at arms reach and let's me dictate terns of engagement and "B" allows me to issue some nice PPD as well as dakka to keep my targets on their heels...

While I like the LRM option for unmitigated damage points... I'm finding players tend to rush Zeus' and as such halving their damage potential. Switching the the SRM 6 gives them a nice in-your-face surprise in both the A an B iteration.

I'm finding myself leaning toward "A" more often than "B" as I'm a special snowflake and I find very few players run this configuration... I'm also growing fond of having that SRM 6 over the LRMs...

Just leaving this musing for anyone who's interested.

[terrycloth]

I do put missiles on my grasshoppers. The eye-missiles are one of two or three high hardpoints; you can't ignore that.

The ballistic zeus has no missiles because it needs all the weight it can get for ballistics. The all-energy ones do use the missile slots, though. One SRM6 isn't amazing but it's more efficient damage than the lasers when you're in position to use it, so your marginal effectiveness goes up by firing it.

[DaZur]

terrycloth, on 31 March 2015 - 12:00 PM, said:

The ballistic zeus has no missiles because it needs all the weight it can get for ballistics. The all-energy ones do use the missile slots, though. One SRM6 isn't amazing but it's more efficient damage than the lasers when you're in position to use it, so your marginal effectiveness goes up by firing it.

I run XL so I have plenty of room...

I agree while the SRMs are minimally viable... with my "A" and the cycle rate of the ERLas and Gauss, the SRM gives me something to throw at "rushers" where with LRMs I'm dead meat while cycling and or they get inside minimum range.

I hurl insults but that seems to only pisses them off more...

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Finally! a build I am really enjoying. it is far south of meta, but still fun and effective.
2xAC5 + 2xLL + LRM15A 320XL engine
I think it keeps the spirit of the Zeus, and I have been having a blast.

I am on the fence regarding the Zeus model, because it live so large in my mind, and was the spiritual descendant of the Battlemaster (unseen), but that is a small issue.

One thing I dislike is the () custom geometry, it really detracts from the model, and looks half-assed.

[Gnume]

The 9S is quickly becoming one of my favorite mechs. I was apprehensive about running it with an XL Engine, but with twisting and spreading damage, I find it to work out pretty well for me.

[LordBraxton]

CaptRosha, on 02 April 2015 - 04:22 AM, said:

The 9S is quickly becoming one of my favorite mechs. I was apprehensive about running it with an XL Engine, but with twisting and spreading damage, I find it to work out pretty well for me.

ill have to try pulses, ive been sticking with the ERs+ cooldown

thats a lot of rear armor though...

[Gnume]

LordBraxton, on 02 April 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

ill have to try pulses, ive been sticking with the ERs+ cooldown

thats a lot of rear armor though...

Oh yeah, good point. Guess I just took Stock Armor and maxed the front

[xXBagheeraXx]

I would have loved to try these if they weren't so butt-ugly...they did not do the concept art justice at all...